BoxRec

Bodyshot3 wrote: I have never been sure about the exact process and who has the authority in the British ring; does the Doctor have the power to alert the referee at any time (whether someone is ahead or not) and demand to examine the cut/swelling or does he need to be invited in by the referee and the ref then decides?

The doctor can stop a fight or demand to take a closer look at a fighter at any time. Although once I saw a doctor come to inspect Danny Williams, but Williams was too busy scrapping for any of that sh*t, so he shoved the doctor out the way, ran away before anyone could stop him and went over and stopped the guy! True story

bigjack wrote:Does anybody know how he is now ?

Yeah any news? As said befor no news is good news I assume but would like to know for sure

Still in an induced coma apparently

TheLeprechaun wrote:Still in an induced coma apparently

Thanks for the update. Sounds very serious still

boxingknockout wrote:

TheLeprechaun wrote:Still in an induced coma apparently

Thanks for the update. Sounds very serious still

That's very worrying.

Hope he recovers soon ,, Also hope the powers that be start to do something about fighters being weight drained , Perhaps if they cannot make the fighters stop it , they could order a promoter to pay more money to the guy who was forced to drop a weight ,, if it costs money the promoters will soon find a way to make guys fight at a more even keel , without one being dehydrated and totally drained

Maybe corners need to be encouraged to pull their man out when they can't win. Just because they can go the distance doesn't mean they should. Also I think they need to find a way to flat out ban dehydration.

Still no news is surely a bit bad news by now? At this sort of timescale I'd be hoping to hear positive noises about him having been woken up and talking etc. Worrying times.

BitPlayer wrote:Maybe corners need to be encouraged to pull their man out when they can't win. Just because they can go the distance doesn't mean they should. Also I think they need to find a way to flat out ban dehydration.

When a fighter is widely losing a fight, I think more corners should tell their fighter to have one last good round, where they put their all into it, and then pull them out after that round unless they have done well enough to suggest that they still have a good shot of winning.

Even when a fighter isn't taking a beating, I don't think fighters should be going out round after round to be getting clearly dominated. Trainers pulling fighters out of fights needs to lose some of the stigma and leaving fighters going out to lose round, after round, after round should gain some.

Commentators banging on about fighters being "so brave" for taking a sustained beating should end and they should call them and their team "so stupid" instead. Apart from being dangerous, it's also boring to watch.

BitPlayer wrote:Maybe corners need to be encouraged to pull their man out when they can't win. Just because they can go the distance doesn't mean they should. Also I think they need to find a way to flat out ban dehydration.

Is it true decades ago, weigh ins were held in the morning of the fights?

Horse wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:Maybe corners need to be encouraged to pull their man out when they can't win. Just because they can go the distance doesn't mean they should. Also I think they need to find a way to flat out ban dehydration.

When a fighter is widely losing a fight, I think more corners should tell their fighter to have one last good round, where they put their all into it, and then pull them out after that round unless they have done well enough to suggest that they still have a good shot of winning.

Even when a fighter isn't taking a beating, I don't think fighters should be going out round after round to be getting clearly dominated. Trainers pulling fighters out of fights needs to lose some of the stigma and leaving fighters going out to lose round, after round, after round should gain some.

Commentators banging on about fighters being "so brave" for taking a sustained beating should end and they should call them and their team "so stupid" instead. Apart from being dangerous, it's also boring to watch.

Very good post, the stigma thing is what almost certainly keeps a lot of fighters in there and stops there trainers from pulling them out. 36 years after Duran said "No Mas", it is still one of the main things people talk about when discussing his career. Look at the stick Walters is getting on a lot of boxing websites for taking himself out of the Lomachenko fight on Saturday night. The argument coming from all is "he wasn't hurt" how the hell do we know what the man was feeling at the time he made the decision, we don't know about headaches, vision issues anything, just because we did not hear it after, does not mean there was not an issue. As long as the boxing writers and public castigate fighters and corners for ending fights we will get some of these awful happenings in our sport. The sad thing is that perhaps it could just maybe have made a difference pulling lads out two rounds before, we need a different mindset in the game, I fear though because of what our sports represents with two men giving everything in the ring, we will never get that and these tragic results will keep occurring.

He's still in a coma. Groves has started a Justgiving page for his family and other fund raisers.

Horse wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:Maybe corners need to be encouraged to pull their man out when they can't win. Just because they can go the distance doesn't mean they should. Also I think they need to find a way to flat out ban dehydration.

When a fighter is widely losing a fight, I think more corners should tell their fighter to have one last good round, where they put their all into it, and then pull them out after that round unless they have done well enough to suggest that they still have a good shot of winning.

Even when a fighter isn't taking a beating, I don't think fighters should be going out round after round to be getting clearly dominated. Trainers pulling fighters out of fights needs to lose some of the stigma and leaving fighters going out to lose round, after round, after round should gain some.

Commentators banging on about fighters being "so brave" for taking a sustained beating should end and they should call them and their team "so stupid" instead. Apart from being dangerous, it's also boring to watch.

Yeah on top of risking stuff like this, it can't be good for their health, and their career longevity.

To be honest, when I thought the fight was over for Gutknecht, Groves put his foot of the gas.... I thought at home it was a bit intentional and not a stamina issue.... but this consequently made it difficult for the ref to stop the fight.

Not blaming Groves at all and I can only think the damage would have been a lot worse had he gone for the KO.

Makes you think though, sometimes you will a fighter to last the distance - I certainly did with Gutknecht.... tough job a referee.

I just feel it was one of those things, I do not think any blame can lie. Gutknecht was "in the fight" until about the 9th or 10th but Groves slowed down also after the rounds, so cannot really argue with the corner men.

Is there any update on his condition?

dookus wrote:Is there any update on his condition?

Last I heard they moved him to Germany but he was still in a coma.

stujones wrote:To be honest, when I thought the fight was over for Gutknecht, Groves put his foot of the gas.... I thought at home it was a bit intentional and not a stamina issue.... but this consequently made it difficult for the ref to stop the fight.

Not blaming Groves at all and I can only think the damage would have been a lot worse had he gone for the KO.

Makes you think though, sometimes you will a fighter to last the distance - I certainly did with Gutknecht.... tough job a referee.

I just feel it was one of those things, I do not think any blame can lie. Gutknecht was "in the fight" until about the 9th or 10th but Groves slowed down also after the rounds, so cannot really argue with the corner men.

Yeah can't blame anyone for this really, groves didn't need to step on the gas so the ref didnt need to step in, and although groves was far ahead on the cards gutkneght wasn't getting beaten around the ring and until the later rounds still had a slim chance, so why would the corner pull him out when he can just dig in and finish the fight?

Finn wrote:so why would the corner pull him out when he can just dig in and finish the fight?

Because he was getting battered.

Horse wrote:

Finn wrote:so why would the corner pull him out when he can just dig in and finish the fight?

Because he was getting battered.

He was defending himself and throwing punches back and it wasn't until the late rounds that it was obvious he had no chance of turning it, at that point he may as well keep his pride and see out the fight. It wasn't like for example when Eubank was hitting Chudinov with 28 unanswered shots in the 11 th round or what ever. Gutkneght was never in any serious trouble imo.

Finn wrote:He was defending himself and throwing punches back and it wasn't until the late rounds that it was obvious he had no chance of turning it, at that point he may as well keep his pride and see out the fight. It wasn't like for example when Eubank was hitting Chudinov with 28 unanswered shots in the 11 th round or what ever. Gutkneght was never in any serious trouble imo.

No, he should have been pulled out because he was getting battered. If he was pulled out earlier he might not have been sent into a coma.

He got to keep his pride just because he went the distance? He would have lost it otherwise? That sort of thinking should end.

Taking a beating in a competitive fight is one thing, getting rag tagged around the ring is another and nothing to be proud of.

Horse wrote:

Finn wrote:He was defending himself and throwing punches back and it wasn't until the late rounds that it was obvious he had no chance of turning it, at that point he may as well keep his pride and see out the fight. It wasn't like for example when Eubank was hitting Chudinov with 28 unanswered shots in the 11 th round or what ever. Gutkneght was never in any serious trouble imo.

No, he should have been pulled out because he was getting battered. If he was pulled out earlier he might not have been sent into a coma.

He got to keep his pride just because he went the distance? He would have lost it otherwise? That sort of thinking should end.

Taking a beating in a competitive fight is one thing, getting rag tagged around the ring is another and nothing to be proud of.

So what you are saying that is if a fighter is losing and doesn't look like they can win they should be pulled out of a fight, even if they are defending themselves and throwing punches?

Let's scrap all fights like calzaghe v Lacey, froch v ward, haye v klitschko (or in fact 90% of klitschko fights), mayweather v canelo (actually again nearly all mayweather fights) part way through because it's a landslide on the cards and the other fighter doesn't look like they can win. Gutknect hadn't even been dropped and wasn't out on his legs - yes a stoppage would have been justified but equally letting the fighter finish was justified. It's only because on this occasion there were issues after we are even debating this otherwise everyone would have been happy that gutknect saw out the fight.

Finn wrote:So what you are saying that is if a fighter is losing and doesn't look like they can win they should be pulled out of a fight, even if they are defending themselves and throwing punches?

He was getting his head kicked in.

Yes, he should have been pulled out and so should others in that situation.

Finn wrote:Let's scrap all fights like calzaghe v Lacey, froch v ward, haye v klitschko (or in fact 90% of klitschko fights), mayweather v canelo (actually again nearly all mayweather fights) part way through because it's a landslide on the cards and the other fighter doesn't look like they can win.

That would hardly be the end of the world.

Why waste people's time with one-sided garbage?

Finn wrote:Gutknect hadn't even been dropped and wasn't out on his legs - yes a stoppage would have been justified but equally letting the fighter finish was justified. It's only because on this occasion there were issues after we are even debating this otherwise everyone would have been happy that gutknect saw out the fight.

I hate seeing losers 'see out' a fight.

Why are people always going on about how they hope some chump can manage to survive until the end?

Just wave the fight off and add a few years to their lives.

Finn wrote:et's scrap all fights like calzaghe v Lacey, froch v ward, haye v klitschko (or in fact 90% of klitschko fights), mayweather v canelo (actually again nearly all mayweather fights) part way through because it's a landslide on the cards and the other fighter doesn't look like they can win. Gutknect hadn't even been dropped and wasn't out on his legs - yes a stoppage would have been justified but equally letting the fighter finish was justified. It's only because on this occasion there were issues after we are even debating this otherwise everyone would have been happy that gutknect saw out the fight.

Oh noes, how else will I be bored without onesided boxing matches?

The only real issue is for up and coming fighters since it'd be harder for them to go the distance, but it's probably fixable.

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:Maybe corners need to be encouraged to pull their man out when they can't win. Just because they can go the distance doesn't mean they should. Also I think they need to find a way to flat out ban dehydration.

Is it true decades ago, weigh ins were held in the morning of the fights?

Yes -- not that long ago. And some say it's less dangerous that way.

BitPlayer wrote:Oh noes, how else will I be bored without onesided boxing matches?

The only real issue is for up and coming fighters since it'd be harder for them to go the distance, but it's probably fixable.

By fighting better opponents?