BoxRec

boxing_rocks wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
First off, i've had enough of the excuses with the Salido loss. Pointing to Salido's weight and the ref not calling it fair is a horrible looks for you Lomachicks. Loma agreed to the ref for that fight AND he climbed through the ropes knowing that Salido didn't make weight even though he could have walked away at that point. BS. He lost. Fair and square. Be honest about it.

In regards to you statement above bolded out, umm.....well yeah. I mean, title shots used to be earned inside the ring. I would have been fine if Loma got BIG fights with contenders and big names first and not title shots. I have no problem with fast tracking a boxer with big fights and no duds. But Loma made demands prior to signing with Arum and a title shot right away was one of his requirements. ONE OF HIS REQUIREMENTS? Do you see how ass backwards this is? The requirement from Loma is putrid enough but what trumps that is the fact that Arum got it done some how. A real sport would look into this back alley bs to see how it got done. It's sad.

I don't really make too much of the loss, he was adjusting to the pro game - it's not an excuse, it's a fact.

Lomachenko is hardly the first amateur golden boy to be given the velvet rope treatment is he? It's always happened in boxing.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing how the rest of his career pans out.

That fight was close, so if Salido had to dehydrate to the proper weight or if the ref took a point from him and/or decreased his fouling, Loma would have had a W.

The fact that ref was ignoring fouling and Loma didn't get a decision makes me think that Arum wanted to teach him a lesson and/or wanted to see what he is really worth, so he didn't work with the judges.

boxing_rocks wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
First off, i've had enough of the excuses with the Salido loss. Pointing to Salido's weight and the ref not calling it fair is a horrible looks for you Lomachicks. Loma agreed to the ref for that fight AND he climbed through the ropes knowing that Salido didn't make weight even though he could have walked away at that point. BS. He lost. Fair and square. Be honest about it.

In regards to you statement above bolded out, umm.....well yeah. I mean, title shots used to be earned inside the ring. I would have been fine if Loma got BIG fights with contenders and big names first and not title shots. I have no problem with fast tracking a boxer with big fights and no duds. But Loma made demands prior to signing with Arum and a title shot right away was one of his requirements. ONE OF HIS REQUIREMENTS? Do you see how ass backwards this is? The requirement from Loma is putrid enough but what trumps that is the fact that Arum got it done some how. A real sport would look into this back alley bs to see how it got done. It's sad.

I don't really make too much of the loss, he was adjusting to the pro game - it's not an excuse, it's a fact.

Lomachenko is hardly the first amateur golden boy to be given the velvet rope treatment is he? It's always happened in boxing.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing how the rest of his career pans out.

That fight was close, so if Salido had to dehydrate to the proper weight or if the ref took a point from him and/or decreased his fouling, Loma would have had a W.

The fact that ref was ignoring fouling and Loma didn't get a decision makes me think that Arum wanted to teach him a lesson and/or wanted to see what he is really worth, so he didn't work with the judges.

Tanzio wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I don't really make too much of the loss, he was adjusting to the pro game - it's not an excuse, it's a fact.

Lomachenko is hardly the first amateur golden boy to be given the velvet rope treatment is he? It's always happened in boxing.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing how the rest of his career pans out.

That fight was close, so if Salido had to dehydrate to the proper weight or if the ref took a point from him and/or decreased his fouling, Loma would have had a W.

The fact that ref was ignoring fouling and Loma didn't get a decision makes me think that Arum wanted to teach him a lesson and/or wanted to see what he is really worth, so he didn't work with the judges.

That loss is actually a positive for Lomassiah, imo. His team can't play stupid games cherrypicking their way to stay unbeaten like a certain Atg who shall remain anonymous here.

Lomassiah did everything but win that fight. I consider it more of a positive than a negative on his legacy.

caldo2025 wrote:

crusader wrote:The OP also mentioned in another thread that Loma getting his title shots was 'disgusting'.

So would we rather have him spending years fighting cans first? He debuted by stopping a subsidiary titilist ranked in the WBO's top 15, therefore rightfully got a spot of his own and qualified as a title challenger, and then lost a close decision to the champ under questionable circumstances (tons of low blows, plus weight issues). Even the Salido loss proved more than him beating up 20 scrubs, and given the nature of the bout it's hardly dubious that he got another chance to fight for the belt when Salido was stripped for being too heavy.It was also not 'disgusting' that Loma got a shot at the WBO 130 title after having been champion at 126.

In regards to you statement above bolded out, umm.....well yeah. I mean, title shots used to be earned inside the ring. I would have been fine if Loma got BIG fights with contenders and big names first and not title shots. I have no problem with fast tracking a boxer with big fights and no duds. But Loma made demands prior to signing with Arum and a title shot right away was one of his requirements. ONE OF HIS REQUIREMENTS? Do you see how ass backwards this is? The requirement from Loma is putrid enough but what trumps that is the fact that Arum got it done some how. A real sport would look into this back alley bs to see how it got done. It's sad.

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Bullshit, he spared the world watching an elite talent butcher overmatched fighters in complete mismatches to build a record to satisfy you. That damn sure isn't purist. Hell, Walters was a mismatch. You'd rather see him fighting mexa-clay? Maybe step up to top 10 in 5 or 6 more fights? Gtfoh, arum has done everything a fan should want with Loma.

Ya, I agree with caldo some of the lomachenko overkill has been classic kneejerk stuff, but theres no argument from me that he's been moved appropriately, and no point not fast-tracking a guy like that, for boxing as a whole.

JMac wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Bullshit, he spared the world watching an elite talent butcher overmatched fighters in complete mismatches to build a record to satisfy you. That damn sure isn't purist. Hell, Walters was a mismatch. You'd rather see him fighting mexa-clay? Maybe step up to top 10 in 5 or 6 more fights? Gtfoh, arum has done everything a fan should want with Loma.

Ya, I agree with caldo some of the lomachenko overkill has been classic kneejerk stuff, but theres no argument from me that he's been moved appropriately, and no point not fast-tracking a guy like that, for boxing as a whole.

All Olympic gold medal winners should start their pro careers in the same way. Forget the 20 fights against cabdrivers that Gary Russell took. Roy Jones fought I think a 10 rounder in his 2nd fight. These great amateurs have paid their dues in the gym.

caldo2025 wrote:

crusader wrote:The OP also mentioned in another thread that Loma getting his title shots was 'disgusting'.

So would we rather have him spending years fighting cans first? He debuted by stopping a subsidiary titilist ranked in the WBO's top 15, therefore rightfully got a spot of his own and qualified as a title challenger, and then lost a close decision to the champ under questionable circumstances (tons of low blows, plus weight issues). Even the Salido loss proved more than him beating up 20 scrubs, and given the nature of the bout it's hardly dubious that he got another chance to fight for the belt when Salido was stripped for being too heavy.It was also not 'disgusting' that Loma got a shot at the WBO 130 title after having been champion at 126.

First off, i've had enough of the excuses with the Salido loss. Pointing to Salido's weight and the ref not calling it fair is a horrible looks for you Lomachicks. Loma agreed to the ref for that fight AND he climbed through the ropes knowing that Salido didn't make weight even though he could have walked away at that point. BS. He lost. Fair and square. Be honest about it.

In regards to you statement above bolded out, umm.....well yeah. I mean, title shots used to be earned inside the ring. I would have been fine if Loma got BIG fights with contenders and big names first and not title shots. I have no problem with fast tracking a boxer with big fights and no duds. But Loma made demands prior to signing with Arum and a title shot right away was one of his requirements. ONE OF HIS REQUIREMENTS? Do you see how ass backwards this is? The requirement from Loma is putrid enough but what trumps that is the fact that Arum got it done some how. A real sport would look into this back alley bs to see how it got done. It's sad.

crusader wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

crusader wrote:The OP also mentioned in another thread that Loma getting his title shots was 'disgusting'.

So would we rather have him spending years fighting cans first? He debuted by stopping a subsidiary titilist ranked in the WBO's top 15, therefore rightfully got a spot of his own and qualified as a title challenger, and then lost a close decision to the champ under questionable circumstances (tons of low blows, plus weight issues). Even the Salido loss proved more than him beating up 20 scrubs, and given the nature of the bout it's hardly dubious that he got another chance to fight for the belt when Salido was stripped for being too heavy.It was also not 'disgusting' that Loma got a shot at the WBO 130 title after having been champion at 126.

First off, i've had enough of the excuses with the Salido loss. Pointing to Salido's weight and the ref not calling it fair is a horrible looks for you Lomachicks. Loma agreed to the ref for that fight AND he climbed through the ropes knowing that Salido didn't make weight even though he could have walked away at that point. BS. He lost. Fair and square. Be honest about it.

In regards to you statement above bolded out, umm.....well yeah. I mean, title shots used to be earned inside the ring. I would have been fine if Loma got BIG fights with contenders and big names first and not title shots. I have no problem with fast tracking a boxer with big fights and no duds. But Loma made demands prior to signing with Arum and a title shot right away was one of his requirements. ONE OF HIS REQUIREMENTS? Do you see how ass backwards this is? The requirement from Loma is putrid enough but what trumps that is the fact that Arum got it done some how. A real sport would look into this back alley bs to see how it got done. It's sad.

Low blows are illegal because they are dangerous and give unfair advantages, while weight limits are in place to militate against major size disparities. Salido was allowed to continually foul, he enjoyed a prohibited size advantage, and considering this, along with the very close and split nature of the bout, I don't think it was unreasonable for Loma to get another shot when Salido was stripped for being too big (and lol at the odd Hopkins/Gatti suggestion another poster made..not true at all for me). Dismissing the context of the bout is just plain stupid...

I agree that world title shots should be earned inside the ring, and Loma earned his quickly by stopping a 25-3 regional belt holder who was in the WBO's top 15. That's the type of opponent who most fighters take years to box (e.g. it took Thurman 5 years to face Orlando Lora, who was worse than Ramirez), but he cut the crap, went straight for it, and thus fairly earned a ranking which qualified him for a world title shot. Now, tell me, where is the injustice there? Who are all these other fighters debuting with that type of win, yet not being ranked for it?

He, of course, lost a very close bout under the questionable circumstances I've noted, and thus got the chance to fight for the belt again when Salido was stripped. He handily won that fight, easily defended it a couple times, then moved up and got a shot at the same organization's champ in the next highest division, which is hardly an injustice. .

People like you, who advocate record-padding and easy fights, are bad for the sport.

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

crusader wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:8 Fight's and not undefeated and some people rate him P4P number 1

Picking Walters by 5th round KO, then going after Loma's loss (not just in here) rather than giving him credit for schooling a guy you thought would KO him

By the way, a lot of bad attempts at being funny and clever in this thread. I also get the sense that some people would rate Loma more highly simply if he had beat up a bunch of nobodies and had 31 fights with 30 wins, rather than cutting out most of the crap and going straight to tough opposition. That's essentially an endorsement for record padding....

My pick was more of a wishful thinking prediction when I picked Walters by 5th round Ko I did mention lucky punch Loma was beat by a beatable veteran in Salido [who is a bit under-rated type of fighter] Salido lost to Juan Manual Marquez by un dec way back in 2004 was beaten by Mikey Garcia and Gamboa and was stopped 5 time's against inferior opposition before he met those type of fighter's I just mentioned.............. Loma is a very good fighter just stop being disrespectful to the guy's that have fought for year's to get to the top you people are putting the cart before the horse is all i'm saying....................And by the way Salido is 36 years old what are team Loma waiting for him to hit the big 40

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes it's pretty silly, he is an exceptional fighter, but he's not even had a career yet. I expect him to go on to do great things, but he's got to go and actually, you know, DO them.

Kalan wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

crusader wrote:
Picking Walters by 5th round KO, then going after Loma's loss (not just in here) rather than giving him credit for schooling a guy you thought would KO him

By the way, a lot of bad attempts at being funny and clever in this thread. I also get the sense that some people would rate Loma more highly simply if he had beat up a bunch of nobodies and had 31 fights with 30 wins, rather than cutting out most of the crap and going straight to tough opposition. That's essentially an endorsement for record padding....

My pick was more of a wishful thinking prediction when I picked Walters by 5th round Ko I did mention lucky punch Loma was beat by a beatable veteran in Salido [who is a bit under-rated type of fighter] Salido lost to Juan Manual Marquez by un dec way back in 2004 was beaten by Mikey Garcia and Gamboa and was stopped 5 time's against inferior opposition before he met those type of fighter's I just mentioned.............. Loma is a very good fighter just stop being disrespectful to the guy's that have fought for year's to get to the top you people are putting the cart before the horse is all i'm saying....................And by the way Salido is 36 years old what are team Loma waiting for him to hit the big 40

It wouldn't be wishful thinking to pick Walters by 5-round KO over Salido... Walters would box Salido's ears off and knock him stiff, if he had an honest referee... The only reason Lomachenko didn't smash Salido is The referee was letting Salido get away with murder, hammering Lomachenko on the hips and thighs.. hitting on the break. head butting, and generally making an ugly fight out of it.. But Loma never got smashed in the nose with Salido's head like Mikey Garcia did.. He's too slick to suffer a direct head butt like that.. Lomachenko landed many more clean effective punches and won the fight.. Salido lost the title which was stripped from him.. Loma defended THAT World Title a few times and moved to 130 where he is also the dominant performer.. I love it when a Cuban or Eastern European gets robbed blind and partisan ass wipes act like it's really a loss..

Kalan wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

crusader wrote:
Picking Walters by 5th round KO, then going after Loma's loss (not just in here) rather than giving him credit for schooling a guy you thought would KO him

By the way, a lot of bad attempts at being funny and clever in this thread. I also get the sense that some people would rate Loma more highly simply if he had beat up a bunch of nobodies and had 31 fights with 30 wins, rather than cutting out most of the crap and going straight to tough opposition. That's essentially an endorsement for record padding....

My pick was more of a wishful thinking prediction when I picked Walters by 5th round Ko I did mention lucky punch Loma was beat by a beatable veteran in Salido [who is a bit under-rated type of fighter] Salido lost to Juan Manual Marquez by un dec way back in 2004 was beaten by Mikey Garcia and Gamboa and was stopped 5 time's against inferior opposition before he met those type of fighter's I just mentioned.............. Loma is a very good fighter just stop being disrespectful to the guy's that have fought for year's to get to the top you people are putting the cart before the horse is all i'm saying....................And by the way Salido is 36 years old what are team Loma waiting for him to hit the big 40

Ridiculous nonsense... Lomachenko should be considered 8-0... The press almost unanimously condemned the decision.. The punch stats favored Lomachenko by a solid margin and even they didn't account for the many low blows and fouls Salido committed.. Laurence Cole was suspended by the Boxing Commission for partisan refereeing and he's been a brutally corrupt referee for a long time. He allowed Salido to foul with impunity.. Punches to the hips and thighs and hits on the break.. The judge selection was pathetic because they were all Americans and Salido has lived in America for some time... In international fights Commissions usually try to make the appearance of being non-partisan by appointing judges from neutral countries making them less biased and more difficult to bribe than local judges.. When Kovalev fought in Russia, the Russian Commission appointed an American referee, and judges from Nicaragua, Hungary, and America.

And after he dominated and knocked out Rocky Martinez (who beat Salido) Lomachenko said he wanted revenge on Salido... So it not that the fight hasn't been offered to Salido... Salido is a very dirty fighter.. In his Mikey Garcia fight he smashed Garcia's nose with a brutal head butt, driving straight in like a bulldozer.. The fight was stopped because Garcia's nose was badly smashed, and Garcia won a technical decision.

Kalan wrote:Who's the best P4P boxer-puncher in the sport??? If not Lomachenko?

It's not Ward after being outclassed by Kovalev in jabbing and power punching---and eating a short right that floored his ass... It's not Joshua because he has yet to fight Ortiz... Ortiz hasn't fought a World Champion yet so it's not him either... It's not Usyk who has 1 world-class win... Golovkin could be called number one except that Brook caught him with some sharp punches and won the 2nd round... Crawford hasn't faced anyone of Russell or Walters' caliber, not even Gamboa, who's been knocked down quit a few times... Thurman has been down once, and he doesn't polish guys off the way Lomachenko does... Canelo is a coward and won't face the best... Chocolatito looked like crap in his last fight, so it's not him... Spence has yet to get a guy like Pacquiao or Thurman into a ring, or win a World Title of any kind.

There is nobody out there with skills close to what Lomachenko displays... He's in a class by himself, I've never seen another one like him.

RoyRJ wrote:The "greatest" Boxer who lost to Orlando Salido, haahaha. He's a great fighter, but the greatest? No. hell no.

Kalan wrote:It's about the greatest boxer ever ... who wouldn't be the guy who got his jaw shattered by an unranked swinger ... upset by a novice with 7 fights ... who had no body attack or inside game ... grabbed and held a lot, and generally got hit a lot ... hitting the canvas from big left hooks from smaller, shorter guys ... and who seemed to run out of gas at 36---unlike Mayweather, Jofre, Pep, Hopkins, Klitschko, Holmes, and others.

5 greatest ever already retired boxers might be: Salvador Sanchez... Eder Jofre... Willie Pep... Gene Tunney... and Floyd Mayweather

Kalan wrote:Who's the best P4P boxer-puncher in the sport??? If not Lomachenko?

It's not Ward after being outclassed by Kovalev in jabbing and power punching---and eating a short right that floored his ass... It's not Joshua because he has yet to fight Ortiz... Ortiz hasn't fought a World Champion yet so it's not him either... It's not Usyk who has 1 world-class win... Golovkin could be called number one except that Brook caught him with some sharp punches and won the 2nd round... Crawford hasn't faced anyone of Russell or Walters' caliber, not even Gamboa, who's been knocked down quit a few times... Thurman has been down once, and he doesn't polish guys off the way Lomachenko does... Canelo is a coward and won't face the best... Chocolatito looked like crap in his last fight, so it's not him... Spence has yet to get a guy like Pacquiao or Thurman into a ring, or win a World Title of any kind.

There is nobody out there with skills close to what Lomachenko displays... He's in a class by himself, I've never seen another one like him.