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Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 10:21
by Srebmun
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 10:22
by Finn
Asterix wrote:Finn wrote:Just watched the weigh in, Bellew said he is going to box on the back foot for 4 rounds then when Haye has gassed he's going to make him quit. Either Bellew is lying and using a bit of kidology or him and coldwell have gone up with he most suicidally optimistic tactics possible.
One thing Bellew is not, is subtle. If he says that's what he's going to try to do, then it probably is.
How can you base your tactics on the other guy gassing when he's done 12 rounds with Klitschko in the past and you yourself have gassed and started looking like bum against cleverly?
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 10:28
by nitro5912
His interview on sky suggests he is going to run and run until haye gases.
Where doea this notion that haye has poor stamina come from? He has been 12 rounds before. Please say bellew ismt basing his strategy on the carl thomson fight and hoping that je hasnt trained for 3 yrs
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 10:53
by Nightmare Roy
nitro5912 wrote:His interview on sky suggests he is going to run and run until haye gases.
Where doea this notion that haye has poor stamina come from? He has been 12 rounds before. Please say bellew ismt basing his strategy on the carl thomson fight and hoping that je hasnt trained for 3 yrs
I can't see him being able to run Haye is much faster.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 11:10
by DazDiCanio
Kilsby wrote:DazDiCanio wrote:Kilsby wrote:
Ok, seriously....
Bellew can't outbox Haye as Haye is a the faster and better boxer. If Bellew adopts this approach and runs he may last a few rounds but basically having Haye stalk you in delaying the inevitable.
So..... Hands up, chin down, and close the distance. Walk forward right to Haye's chest and stay there. This neutralises Haye's power - all punchers require distance to generate their power (unless your Bruce Lee and can knock someone out with a 2inch punch!) sit tight on his chest, tuck up and work the body when you can.
Take Haye into the deep waters and try to drown him in the mid to latter part of the fight when he will inevitably gas due to stamina issues, he had them early on in his career and isn't suddenly going to be immune to them after a 3 year break!
After round 8, openings will be there... Start to use phase two of the plan.
Stop working the body, Haye should be feeling the heat by now n move your target from the body to the head. Circle to your right constantly, thus taking a slight edge of the power if Haye was to catch you with a big right handed, prime yourself for this shot (Hayes reflexes should be a little slower by now) try to anticipate this, duck under it and roll to your left and unleash a left hook.
Bingo! Hope Dave Coldwell doesnt read this thread as I'm on Haye round 1-3.
But there you go kids.... This is how you win.
So do this for 8 rounds, ye?
^^^
Yes. He needs to stay out of danger to Haye shoots his bolt. He needs to sit on his chest, its the safest place for him to be.
When he physically starts to blow that's when phase 2 should start. If it takes 8 rds it takes 8 rds, maybe 10.... Who knows?
Haye may be blowing out his ass after 5
So a 214lb Tony Bellew is going to lean on and out pace the heavier and fitter David Haye.
I hope you're not an actual coach pal.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 11:23
by Stuarty
'If you've got a set of keys on you stick em in yer hand and make em count'
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 12:21
by Neil Gee
I don't know what to expect with this one. Either Haye's too big for Bellow and stops him early or he doesn't and then we start remembering that Haye hasn't had a competitive round in the ring since he fought Chisora in 2012.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 12:44
by Kilsby
DazDiCanio wrote:Kilsby wrote:DazDiCanio wrote:
So do this for 8 rounds, ye?
^^^
Yes. He needs to stay out of danger to Haye shoots his bolt. He needs to sit on his chest, its the safest place for him to be.
When he physically starts to blow that's when phase 2 should start. If it takes 8 rds it takes 8 rds, maybe 10.... Who knows?
Haye may be blowing out his ass after 5
So a 214lb Tony Bellew is going to lean on and out pace the heavier and fitter David Haye.
I hope you're not an actual coach pal.
Body beautiful doesn't mean he has a better engine - if I had to say who has the better stamina I would tip Bellew. He has fought regularly and Haye hasn't. Gym rounds are not the same as real rounds.
So yes, he COULD outpace Haye.
Do I think he will? No.... I think he gets smashed early.
The thread was how could bellew win? I gave my opinion that's all. Where is yours?
The plan is tactically sound - Ward took Kovalevs power away from him from round 3-12 with similar tactics.
Saying dont get hit or throw a hail Mary is not a plan its just hoping for a lucky shot. Mine is an actual strategy
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 12:46
by Covfefe
Neil Gee wrote:I don't know what to expect with this one. Either Haye's too big for Bellow and stops him early or he doesn't and then we start remembering that Haye hasn't had a competitive round in the ring since he fought Chisora in 2012.
The problem there is is bellew going to pressure Haye enough to make him tire? Twelve rounds for Haye will be easy at his own pace.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 12:48
by Kilsby
I also never mentioned leaning on him...
Just stay in the pocket n work the body,throw the occasional uppercut, hands up and chin tucked down.
Make him know he is in a fight, throw a low blow... Just don't give him the distance to measure you with a big right
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 12:52
by DazDiCanio
Kilsby wrote:DazDiCanio wrote:Kilsby wrote:
^^^
Yes. He needs to stay out of danger to Haye shoots his bolt. He needs to sit on his chest, its the safest place for him to be.
When he physically starts to blow that's when phase 2 should start. If it takes 8 rds it takes 8 rds, maybe 10.... Who knows?
Haye may be blowing out his ass after 5
So a 214lb Tony Bellew is going to lean on and out pace the heavier and fitter David Haye.
I hope you're not an actual coach pal.
Body beautiful doesn't mean he has a better engine - if I had to say who has the better stamina I would tip Bellew. He has fought regularly and Haye hasn't. Gym rounds are not the same as real rounds.
So yes, he COULD outpace Haye.
Do I think he will? No.... I think he gets smashed early.
The thread was how could bellew win? I gave my opinion that's all. Where is yours?
The plan is tactically sound - Ward took Kovalevs power away from him from round 3-12 with similar tactics.
Saying dont get hit or throw a hail Mary is not a plan its just hoping for a lucky shot. Mine is an actual strategy
Bellew is fat, Haye is athletic. Ward and Kov were the same weight(ish).
You go on playing fantasy boxing coach though pal.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 12:53
by sweetscience
bellew can only make haye tire if he drags him into a dog fight or lets him punch himself out but he would need a chin like Homer Simpson in that episode where he just absorbs punches then tips him over
if bellew runs, haye wont get tired following him round ring, haye too savvy to be missing with bombs all night & bellew aint slick enough
I think Bellew is going to try and get close and try and rough him up on inside aiming for dodgy shoulder, but I don't think it will work
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 12:59
by Kilsby
DazDiCanio wrote:Kilsby wrote:DazDiCanio wrote:
So a 214lb Tony Bellew is going to lean on and out pace the heavier and fitter David Haye.
I hope you're not an actual coach pal.
Body beautiful doesn't mean he has a better engine - if I had to say who has the better stamina I would tip Bellew. He has fought regularly and Haye hasn't. Gym rounds are not the same as real rounds.
So yes, he COULD outpace Haye.
Do I think he will? No.... I think he gets smashed early.
The thread was how could bellew win? I gave my opinion that's all. Where is yours?
The plan is tactically sound - Ward took Kovalevs power away from him from round 3-12 with similar tactics.
Saying dont get hit or throw a hail Mary is not a plan its just hoping for a lucky shot. Mine is an actual strategy
Bellew is fat, Haye is athletic. Ward and Kov were the same weight(ish).
You go on playing fantasy boxing coach though pal.
I will....
Thanks for your insight Einstein - this forum needs more from the part-time football fans "educating us"
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 13:26
by jamesmcdonnell
Haye is one of the hardest hitters in the division, that's without doubt, Bellew isn't hard to hit.
I can only see one result, barring haye's shoulder going and that is a ko win for Haye, it's just about when it happens. If it happens in the first half of round 3, I win 775 quid, if it's in the first two, I get 400, if it's second half of round 3, 375.
Come on Dave, spatter the bugger.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 13:27
by jamesmcdonnell
Kilsby wrote:DazDiCanio wrote:Kilsby wrote:
^^^
Yes. He needs to stay out of danger to Haye shoots his bolt. He needs to sit on his chest, its the safest place for him to be.
When he physically starts to blow that's when phase 2 should start. If it takes 8 rds it takes 8 rds, maybe 10.... Who knows?
Haye may be blowing out his ass after 5
So a 214lb Tony Bellew is going to lean on and out pace the heavier and fitter David Haye.
I hope you're not an actual coach pal.
Body beautiful doesn't mean he has a better engine - if I had to say who has the better stamina I would tip Bellew. He has fought regularly and Haye hasn't. Gym rounds are not the same as real rounds.
So yes, he COULD outpace Haye.
Do I think he will? No.... I think he gets smashed early.
The thread was how could bellew win? I gave my opinion that's all. Where is yours?
The plan is tactically sound - Ward took Kovalevs power away from him from round 3-12 with similar tactics.
Ward is a defensive genius, that's a pathetic comparison.
Saying dont get hit or throw a hail Mary is not a plan its just hoping for a lucky shot. Mine is an actual strategy
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 13:38
by Asterix
If you re-watch the Stevenson fight it really makes it hard to see a win for Bellew, outside of Haye injuring himself or getting disqualified.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17FoyJwjtEM
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 14:54
by fanman
To be fair bellew looked a bit too skinny against stevenson.
Tactics ... I think bellew would have to tuck up tight, box, but be sure to throw some hard punches to gain some respect.
I think it comes down to ability more than tactics ... If bellew doesnt have the reflexes to handle an early assault then its all over.
I think bellew can only hope that haye is very sloppy and lacks ring fitness ... This is a possiblity.
So; a solid defence, patient boxing, stand his ground at times and earn some respect ... hope that haye isn't what he was and injury and inactivity catches up.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 15:23
by Tarkus
Trying to get inside Haye is indeed a suicidal approach, ask Chisora. Do you want to walk down a bigger man, harder and faster puncher, who is also a master defensive mover? That is insane. As soon as Bellew tries to get inside he will get KOed. But I am sure he wont. From what he has been saying its clear that he will be very very defensive. He will cover up and run like I said he should.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 15:52
by handsofstone
Haye's always had stick for his stamina but ive never felt it was an issue, he never fights at a fast pace, he does a lot of posing and feinting, he has a good defence, I don't think Wlad even hit him that easy despite winning comfortably, what Haye does is he springs into attacks with sudden bursts, he his so hard that he doesn't need to launch many attacks to hurt opponents and eventually get them out there
The only chance of Haye gassing if he pours it on Bellew right from the start and cant get Tony out of there, I do see David taking that approach but I just cant see Bellew lasting long enough for Haye to gas
The only very slight chance I see Bellew winning is if Haye decides to lay on the ropes and invite Tony in, Bomber could land a big shot then follow up
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 17:11
by Tugger28
He can't do anything to win...the guy will be outclassed. Chisora was called off him in sparring....allegedly!
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 03 Mar 2017, 17:19
by forcefraser
For all his bravado he's in this for the cash. Simples as that.
When he gets starched he'll have every excuse in the book ready ( not a real heavyweight, Haye an elite fighter, little skinny fat bloke from Liverpool, only did it for my nan etc etc)
He will make millions, so fair play. But let's not pretend that he really cares about losing the fight. He never ever thought he could win and I genuinely believe that to be the case.
I would do what he's doing for that kind of brass.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 04 Mar 2017, 00:16
by Grilling Machine
Kilsby wrote:What's your game plan Einstein?
The gap's too wide for there to be one. With respect, the strats in this thread are largely schoolboy-level stuff. I don't mean that as an insult, and it's not to say that some of them might not work were it a narrower divide between the two. But other than aiming for Haye's shoulder and/or trying to make him dislocate it with a miss, none of us can see anything that Bellew can do.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 04 Mar 2017, 00:19
by crusader
I really have no idea about what he should do; hes smaller, slower, lighter punchinh, easier to hit, doesnt take a good shot, and hasnt shown me much better stamina than Haye has.
This is a fight where I think he needs something flukish to occur.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 04 Mar 2017, 00:23
by Grilling Machine
Absolutely. It's not that we're saying that Haye's guaranteed to win (else we'd all be betting the farm on him), just that we're sure that anything else is completely unforeseeable. Other than the shoulder going, as we keep mentioning.
If Bellew wins without Haye becoming injured, I'll have no hesitation in calling it the biggest upset in history.
Re: What can Tony do to win?
Posted: 04 Mar 2017, 08:33
by PredatorHayds
He needs to get Panama Lewis involved in camp with his special gloves and top quality H2O.