Can someone make an updated list of ATG 50?

[Jip]

I've idly considered who I'd have in my top 10 for a while, however I might as well knock together a tentative top 30 for the sake of being more interesting and because that's what the OP asked for. The lower the list goes the less I've thought about it TBH - I may be persuadable to make more changes around there especially. Anyway:

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
(Sam's greater weight jumping, apparent versatility and higher standing among contemporaries trump Greb's better consistency and ATG scalp collecting, but not by much.)

--------------------------

3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Roberto Duran
6. Henry Armstrong
(Hank is slightly flattered by novelty IMO. Still great, but but way behind SRR and Ezz to me. Duran is debatable)

------------------------------

7. Benny Leonard
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Willie Pep
10. Archie Moore
11. Sugar Ray Leonard
(sometimes when I do a top 10 SRL makes the cut. Not this time.)

----------------------------

12. Joe Louis
13. Joe Gans
14. Gene Tunney
15. Sandy Saddler

----------------------------

16. Carlos Monzon
17. Eder Jofre
18. Marvin Hagler

-----------------------------

19. Jack Johnson
20. Floyd Mayweather
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Charley Burley
23. Stanley Ketchel

-------------------------------

24. Michael Spinks
25. Bob Fitzsimmons
26. Tommy Hearns
27. Holman Williams
28. Roy Jones Jr
29. Mickey Walker
30. Manny Pacquiao

---------------------------------

Just missing out: Jimmy Mclarlin, Emile Griffith, Pernell Whitaker, Salvador Sanchez.

I've ordered them into tiers. Theoretically I could move someone up or down a tier, but probably not two.

Good list

[cfang]

great list this. I've got grab 1 and id props put manny and floyd up a bit but great list, best I've seen

I've idly considered who I'd have in my top 10 for a while, however I might as well knock together a tentative top 30 for the sake of being more interesting and because that's what the OP asked for. The lower the list goes the less I've thought about it TBH - I may be persuadable to make more changes around there especially. Anyway:

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
(Sam's greater weight jumping, apparent versatility and higher standing among contemporaries trump Greb's better consistency and ATG scalp collecting, but not by much.)

--------------------------

3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Roberto Duran
6. Henry Armstrong
(Hank is slightly flattered by novelty IMO. Still great, but but way behind SRR and Ezz to me. Duran is debatable)

------------------------------

7. Benny Leonard
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Willie Pep
10. Archie Moore
11. Sugar Ray Leonard
(sometimes when I do a top 10 SRL makes the cut. Not this time.)

----------------------------

12. Joe Louis
13. Joe Gans
14. Gene Tunney
15. Sandy Saddler

----------------------------

16. Carlos Monzon
17. Eder Jofre
18. Marvin Hagler

-----------------------------

19. Jack Johnson
20. Floyd Mayweather
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Charley Burley
23. Stanley Ketchel

-------------------------------

24. Michael Spinks
25. Bob Fitzsimmons
26. Tommy Hearns
27. Holman Williams
28. Roy Jones Jr
29. Mickey Walker
30. Manny Pacquiao

---------------------------------

Just missing out: Jimmy Mclarlin, Emile Griffith, Pernell Whitaker, Salvador Sanchez.

I've ordered them into tiers. Theoretically I could move someone up or down a tier, but probably not two.

Good list

[Jip]

I do a lot of research.

You cant answer questions. Or u answer the questions that suits u, the other u leave out cause they uncomfortable.

Duran is inferior to pacquiao. Prime for prime.

Stamina pacquiao
Speed pacquiao
Footwork pacquiao
Punching power pacquiao
Technique duran
Punch variation pacquiao
Chin duran

What makes you think Manny punches harder than Duran? Stamina is another dubious checkmark for Manny.

Pacquios hooks when he put everything into 1 best punch were lightning fast and terrorized opponents. When i look at duran vids i see power, but not that type of force.

Stamina, is it crazy to say manny has the best stamina of all boxer? Prime manny did war after war went 12 rds full speed and after the fight during the post fight interviews sounded like he did a 30 Minute walk in the park, just relaxed. He threw so many punches, moved so much, never out if breath. Speciman.

[Jip]

Not to mention, how does a guy who spent a good part of his career as a one handed fighter and never threw and effective uppercut with either hand, have better punch variety than Duran?

Ah, so gil just said

Those uppercuts on cotto were good...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I do a lot of research.

You cant answer questions. Or u answer the questions that suits u, the other u leave out cause they uncomfortable.

Duran is inferior to pacquiao. Prime for prime.

Stamina pacquiao
Speed pacquiao
Footwork pacquiao
Punching power pacquiao
Technique duran
Punch variation pacquiao
Chin duran

What makes you think Manny punches harder than Duran? Stamina is another dubious checkmark for Manny.

Pacquios hooks when he put everything into 1 best punch were lightning fast and terrorized opponents. When i look at duran vids i see power, but not that type of force.

Stamina, is it crazy to say manny has the best stamina of all boxer? Prime manny did war after war went 12 rds full speed and after the fight during the post fight interviews sounded like he did a 30 Minute walk in the park, just relaxed. He threw so many punches, moved so much, never out if breath. Speciman.

Duran went 15 rounds many times. He dropped Super Middleweights. You need to watch more film or something.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=du ... &FORM=VIRE

Watch this.

[Jip]

I can't think of any logical reason to put Pacquiao or Roy Jones Jr. over Mayweather. None of the 3 would be in my Top 15. Floyd would be closest.

Pac: climbed 10 + divisions, looked unbeatable during his prime, beat so many champions. He did all that while being a midget standing ~5'5

Jones: if we talk quality, prime jones looked like the #1 boxer ever, sure should it be taken into account if somebody is unbelievably good. During his prime won against toney & hopkins and never lost 1 fast. Some say he didnt even lose single rds during a certain period of time

Why is floyd lower. Like max kellermann said" i saw both boxing live and roy was a better boxer than floyd mayweather". Manny fought more than floyd and overall fought better opponents than floyd. While floyd lost during his prime to castillo, roy didnt lose during his prime. While floyd took a 2 year vacation, manny was boxing margarito & clottey...etc...

[Jip]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=du ... &FORM=VIRE

Watch this.

Ok. I watch it. Thanks

[gilgamesh]

I can't think of any logical reason to put Pacquiao or Roy Jones Jr. over Mayweather. None of the 3 would be in my Top 15. Floyd would be closest.

Pac: climbed 10 + divisions, looked unbeatable during his prime, beat so many champions. He did all that while being a midget standing ~5'5

Jones: if we talk quality, prime jones looked like the #1 boxer ever, sure should it be taken into account if somebody is unbelievably good. During his prime won against toney & hopkins and never lost 1 fast. Some say he didnt even lose single rds during a certain period of time

Why is floyd lower. Like max kellermann said" i saw both boxing live and roy was a better boxer than floyd mayweather". Manny fought more than floyd and overall fought better opponents than floyd. While floyd lost during his prime to castillo, roy didnt lose during his prime. While floyd took a 2 year vacation, manny was boxing margarito & clottey...etc...

Both the amount of years he was on top, and the resume Floyd has is superior to Roy's in my opinion. I'll give it to you that Roy had more dazzling performances at times in his career, but Floyd had the better career overall, and more wins over Elite or High level competition.

[Jip]

I can't think of any logical reason to put Pacquiao or Roy Jones Jr. over Mayweather. None of the 3 would be in my Top 15. Floyd would be closest.

Pac: climbed 10 + divisions, looked unbeatable during his prime, beat so many champions. He did all that while being a midget standing ~5'5

Jones: if we talk quality, prime jones looked like the #1 boxer ever, sure should it be taken into account if somebody is unbelievably good. During his prime won against toney & hopkins and never lost 1 fast. Some say he didnt even lose single rds during a certain period of time

Why is floyd lower. Like max kellermann said" i saw both boxing live and roy was a better boxer than floyd mayweather". Manny fought more than floyd and overall fought better opponents than floyd. While floyd lost during his prime to castillo, roy didnt lose during his prime. While floyd took a 2 year vacation, manny was boxing margarito & clottey...etc...

Both the amount of years he was on top, and the resume Floyd has is superior to Roy's in my opinion. I'll give it to you that Roy had more dazzling performances at times in his career, but Floyd had the better career overall, and more wins over Elite or High level competition.

Yeah...i just feel some wins were losses or draws...u know my take....but all 3 exceptional

I have to take everything into consideration.

U right floyd had a better rec than roy.

[gilgamesh]

Pac: climbed 10 + divisions, looked unbeatable during his prime, beat so many champions. He did all that while being a midget standing ~5'5

Jones: if we talk quality, prime jones looked like the #1 boxer ever, sure should it be taken into account if somebody is unbelievably good. During his prime won against toney & hopkins and never lost 1 fast. Some say he didnt even lose single rds during a certain period of time

Why is floyd lower. Like max kellermann said" i saw both boxing live and roy was a better boxer than floyd mayweather". Manny fought more than floyd and overall fought better opponents than floyd. While floyd lost during his prime to castillo, roy didnt lose during his prime. While floyd took a 2 year vacation, manny was boxing margarito & clottey...etc...

Both the amount of years he was on top, and the resume Floyd has is superior to Roy's in my opinion. I'll give it to you that Roy had more dazzling performances at times in his career, but Floyd had the better career overall, and more wins over Elite or High level competition.

Yeah...i just feel some wins were losses or draws...u know my take....but all 3 exceptional

I agree with you that Castillo deserved the first fight over Floyd, I also personally had Maidana beating Floyd the 1st time. Even so I'd still rate Floyd over Roy.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I can't think of any logical reason to put Pacquiao or Roy Jones Jr. over Mayweather. None of the 3 would be in my Top 15. Floyd would be closest.

Pac: climbed 10 + divisions, looked unbeatable during his prime, beat so many champions. He did all that while being a midget standing ~5'5

Jones: if we talk quality, prime jones looked like the #1 boxer ever, sure should it be taken into account if somebody is unbelievably good. During his prime won against toney & hopkins and never lost 1 fast. Some say he didnt even lose single rds during a certain period of time

Why is floyd lower. Like max kellermann said" i saw both boxing live and roy was a better boxer than floyd mayweather". Manny fought more than floyd and overall fought better opponents than floyd. While floyd lost during his prime to castillo, roy didnt lose during his prime. While floyd took a 2 year vacation, manny was boxing margarito & clottey...etc...

Both the amount of years he was on top, and the resume Floyd has is superior to Roy's in my opinion. I'll give it to you that Roy had more dazzling performances at times in his career, but Floyd had the better career overall, and more wins over Elite or High level competition.

Agreed, Roy isn't on a tier with either of them imo but Floyd definitely rates over Manny. Tyson over Holyfield is outlandish.

[Jip]

Both the amount of years he was on top, and the resume Floyd has is superior to Roy's in my opinion. I'll give it to you that Roy had more dazzling performances at times in his career, but Floyd had the better career overall, and more wins over Elite or High level competition.

Yeah...i just feel some wins were losses or draws...u know my take....but all 3 exceptional

I agree with you that Castillo deserved the first fight over Floyd, I also personally had Maidana beating Floyd the 1st time. Even so I'd still rate Floyd over Roy.

Yeah. I mean roy, as good a boxer he was as a.business man he was stupid. European fans where screaming for him to fight dariusz. Nothing happened. Prime hopkins called him out. Roy said NO. Prime calzaghe was at sm, could they have a catch weight or just make it happen, sure they couldve made business. Nothing happened. After ruiz fight push for a showdown with holyfield or tyson. Nothing.

I mean he realy did litle for legacy. Floyd did more while also staying away from tszyu, prime pac and pw/margarito. Yet still. He did more than stupid roy, who had all the talent in the world but always said no no no...

[Jip]

Pac: climbed 10 + divisions, looked unbeatable during his prime, beat so many champions. He did all that while being a midget standing ~5'5

Jones: if we talk quality, prime jones looked like the #1 boxer ever, sure should it be taken into account if somebody is unbelievably good. During his prime won against toney & hopkins and never lost 1 fast. Some say he didnt even lose single rds during a certain period of time

Why is floyd lower. Like max kellermann said" i saw both boxing live and roy was a better boxer than floyd mayweather". Manny fought more than floyd and overall fought better opponents than floyd. While floyd lost during his prime to castillo, roy didnt lose during his prime. While floyd took a 2 year vacation, manny was boxing margarito & clottey...etc...

Both the amount of years he was on top, and the resume Floyd has is superior to Roy's in my opinion. I'll give it to you that Roy had more dazzling performances at times in his career, but Floyd had the better career overall, and more wins over Elite or High level competition.

Agreed, Roy isn't on a tier with either of them imo but Floyd definitely rates over Manny. Tyson over Holyfield is outlandish.

Its p4p. Tyson was a midget with t rex short arms. Imagine tyson standing 6'2. He wouldve ruled boxing.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Both the amount of years he was on top, and the resume Floyd has is superior to Roy's in my opinion. I'll give it to you that Roy had more dazzling performances at times in his career, but Floyd had the better career overall, and more wins over Elite or High level competition.

Agreed, Roy isn't on a tier with either of them imo but Floyd definitely rates over Manny. Tyson over Holyfield is outlandish.

Its p4p. Tyson was a midget with t rex short arms. Imagine tyson standing 6'2. He wouldve ruled boxing.

Holyfield is the greatest Cruiserweight of alltime, Mike could have never fought there. You may as well have just said, I love Tyson.

[gilgamesh]

Yeah...i just feel some wins were losses or draws...u know my take....but all 3 exceptional

I agree with you that Castillo deserved the first fight over Floyd, I also personally had Maidana beating Floyd the 1st time. Even so I'd still rate Floyd over Roy.

Yeah. I mean roy, as good a boxer he was as a.business man he was stupid. European fans where screaming for him to fight dariusz. Nothing happened. Prime hopkins called him out. Roy said NO. Prime calzaghe was at sm, could they have a catch weight or just make it happen, sure they couldve made business. Nothing happened. After ruiz fight push for a showdown with holyfield or tyson. Nothing.

I mean he realy did litle for legacy. Floyd did more while also staying away from tszyu, prime pac and pw/margarito. Yet still. He did more than stupid roy, who had all the talent in the world but always said no no no...

No doubt. There were tons of big things that Roy could've done and passed on for whatever reason. He would've made a killing to fight Holyfield or Tyson (hell he probably would've made more to fight Tyson than he made in the rest of his career combined), and both of those would've been winnable fights for him I think. I guess he was just nervous of feeling the power of 2 great Heavyweights, even if they were past their best.

I'm sure he himself wishes he'd stayed at Heavyweight or dropped no further down than Cruiserweight after the Ruiz bout, knowing how how poorly his return to Light Heavyweight went.

As they say though. Hindsight is 20/20.

He still had an absolutely marvelous career, and would certainly be either THE best or at least one of the 3 best boxers of the 1990's.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'm glad he went back to Lt Heavy. The first tarver fight was my favorite Roy performance. He really gutted it out the last two rounds. He lost his confidence as much as any physical losses. If you watch the 4th and 5th rounds of the third Tarver fight he looked spectacular. He could have won that fight if he believed in himself.

[Jip]

I agree with you that Castillo deserved the first fight over Floyd, I also personally had Maidana beating Floyd the 1st time. Even so I'd still rate Floyd over Roy.

Yeah. I mean roy, as good a boxer he was as a.business man he was stupid. European fans where screaming for him to fight dariusz. Nothing happened. Prime hopkins called him out. Roy said NO. Prime calzaghe was at sm, could they have a catch weight or just make it happen, sure they couldve made business. Nothing happened. After ruiz fight push for a showdown with holyfield or tyson. Nothing.

I mean he realy did litle for legacy. Floyd did more while also staying away from tszyu, prime pac and pw/margarito. Yet still. He did more than stupid roy, who had all the talent in the world but always said no no no...

No doubt. There were tons of big things that Roy could've done and passed on for whatever reason. He would've made a killing to fight Holyfield or Tyson (hell he probably would've made more to fight Tyson than he made in the rest of his career combined), and both of those would've been winnable fights for him I think. I guess he was just nervous of feeling the power of 2 great Heavyweights, even if they were past their best.

I'm sure he himself wishes he'd stayed at Heavyweight or dropped no further down than Cruiserweight after the Ruiz bout, knowing how how poorly his return to Light Heavyweight went.

As they say though. Hindsight is 20/20.

He still had an absolutely marvelous career, and would certainly be either THE best or at least one of the 3 best boxers of the 1990's.

You know what the funny and sad thing is.

He was nervous of getting kod or hurt vs 2 atg hw, than dropped in weight just to get kod and hurt countless times....sad story....

Like u said, at least he couldve made ton of millions ag tyson. Imagine the fight poster: p4p #1 vs iron mike

JONES VS TYSON

What a ppv blockbuster this couldve been...

[Ossyrules]

I can actually see an arguement where somebody says pacquaios achievements in boxing surpass Mayweathers, when you consider the run of opponents pacquaio beat. Pacquaio would never rank above Mayweather in these lists though.

Roy was probably the best of the 3, but has even thinner record than Floyd when you consider star quality opponents.

[Badhusker]

Basically take an old list, slot Mayweather in at about #25, Pacquiao at about #70, and you're done. Make sure that under absolutely no circumstances do you include Golovkin or Lomachenko. And that will bring you up to date.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

I may as well start this because it will end up a Mayweather PAc sh$% fest anyway given the OP...and it interests me haha I saw Jeff Horn on our TV (Australian) the other night. He was on a game show and was standing next to a woman, anyway....he has a normal sized head, it's not small at all. Pacs head was massive, massive compared to Jeff when they fought. Thats got to be a side effect of steroids, hasn't it? The head isn't meant to grow after adolescence, the only things that continues to grow are ears and the nose. How long has Manny had this massive head?

So that's what wrong with me fuc some one fed me roid's my nicknames 7 head's some would claim

Is this you mate?

Mate I never touched roids neither did he just a big head

[man]

What did fitzsimmons do to be 3?

He fought 5 debut 0-0 guys as his first 5 fights.

now, that's an argument!

[Jip]

What did fitzsimmons do to be 3?

He fought 5 debut 0-0 guys as his first 5 fights.

now, that's an argument!

70 % of the opponents he faced had bad records.

How can a boxer like this than be rated in a top 10 atg.

Look at floyd & pac, they have been boxing opponents with solid records since they were young.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't have him rated anywhere near the top 10, but you should know that every fight in history isn't on the Boxrec database. Someone with an 0-0 record could well have had 40 or 50 fights.

[Jip]

Shouldve couldve....

Vasyl was 300-1 in the amateurs, we could make amateur record combine with pro since baxk than there was no amateur and even world champion boxer did paid sparring fight with guys of debut or 2-7-5 records. Than vasyl would be ~312-2 and consiered the best boxer ever..