Anthony Joshua 2017 v Mike Tyson 1986.

[Ossyrules]

From a head-to-head perspective, how do the people picking AJ rate him on an all-time basis? Top ten? Top twenty? I specify those who picked AJ, because I think I have a better idea of what the 'Tyson easy KO' people would say.

How would he do against fighters such as:

-Frazier
-Louis
-Ali
-Riddick Blowe
-Holyfield
-Foreman
-Holmes
-Norton
-Marciano
-Butterbean
-Dempsey
-Liston
-Lewis

You've opened up a mega can of worms here! Making an educated guess at 1 fantasy fight is enough!!

[crusader]

People can pick and choose any of the fighters as they please....I wouldn't expect detailed posts on each match-up!

I'll go with one: AJ beats up and stops Marciano

[jamesmcdonnell]

People can pick and choose any of the fighters as they please....I wouldn't expect detailed posts on each match-up!

I'll go with one: AJ beats up and stops Marciano

Yeah marciano for sure. Slow, plodding and relied on incredible toughness. Hed have had to have absorbed a hellacious beating from a much bigger man with dynamite fists. No chance he could win. Dempsey would have had a better chance but even then big underdog.

[Tanzio]

I am not over rating AJ or under rating Iron Mike. AJ 2017, post Wlad, would be too much for any version of Tyson who was always one excellent big man away from defeat, imo.

AJ just did something Tyson was never able to do (until after retirement); come back from the brink. AJ would survive the early adversity and put Tyson away mid to late, if he did not just dispatch him in the early firefight.

2017 AJ is too big, strong, powerful, dedicated and smart for any version of Tyson, although it would be fun while it lasted.

Its one thing surviving thd onslaught from one of the most hard punching yet reluctant heavyweights of all time, another entirely to survive being hurt by tyson in his prime.

I agree that if he could survive he would have the tools to beat tyson into submission, but getting to that point would have been far from a racing certainty.

Anything can happen between two quality HWs. 2017 AJ post Wlad would NOT be intimidated by any incarnation of Tyson though. I think that an early KTFO by AJ would be more likely than vice versa. But, we will never know.

[Ossyrules]

People can pick and choose any of the fighters as they please....I wouldn't expect detailed posts on each match-up!

I'll go with one: AJ beats up and stops Marciano

Fair enough

How someone goes about comparing a fight with Dempsey in that era vs today I don't know! It should be about their greatness in their own era imo!

[Tanzio]

From a head-to-head perspective, how do the people picking AJ rate him on an all-time basis? Top ten? Top twenty? I specify those who picked AJ, because I think I have a better idea of what the 'Tyson easy KO' people would say.

How would he do against fighters such as:

-Frazier
-Louis
-Ali
-Riddick Blowe
-Holyfield
-Foreman
-Holmes
-Norton
-Marciano
-Butterbean
-Dempsey
-Liston
-Lewis

You've opened up a mega can of worms here! Making an educated guess at 1 fantasy fight is enough!!

First of all, I never used the word "easy."

AJ would have a decent chance v anyone on the list. The top seven at their best would be a hard ask. But they would be the same tough mission for anyone else in the history of boxing, including each other.

The facts are that we just don't know for sure and we never will. Our opinions are formed from our perspectives which are fleshed out by what we sense. Maybe my opinion would be changed given certain input, but from my experience I would take 2017 AJ post Wlad over any version of Tyson.

That does not mean that I believe that AJ should be rated above Tyson yet on ATG lists. It is specifically based on what I have seen of the two.

I will say that I always was candid about how Tyson's career would go (inside the ring). It played out how I saw it. That does not make me some special judge of boxing talent. However, in Tyson's case I considered it obvious how it would play out.

[crusader]

'Tyson easy KO' referred to predictions that Tyson would walk through AJ, so that doesn't apply to you.

[Tanzio]

'Tyson easy KO' referred to predictions that Tyson would walk through AJ, so that doesn't apply to you.

I did not think it did. I was just clarifying my position.

Tyson had a magnificent run at a phenomenally young age. My opinion is in no way meant to denigrate his accomplishments.

[bbjc]

Think tysons seriously underrated nowadays. To a scary level. In terms of career...hes rated about right...it was a let down in the end...but in terms of how good he was for a short period of time....hes massively underrated.

No ones come close to smashing the division at 20 years old since. Dont think people realise how difficult and how much of an achievement that was. To boot that 80,s division is seriously underrated. If anyone gets the chance go back and watch them. They could do it all. Great jabs. Good footwork. Great punch variations. Great engines. Could fight going backwards. Had good boxing iq. Could move well all directions. Good head movement Good combination punchers.

Now compare that to someone like molina or breazeale. I dont think they tick any of them boxes. They dont actually do anything well.

The 80,s guys get stick probably because their wasnt a stand out champion just prior to tyson coming along but it was a deep division filled with talent.

They couldnt get the kid sparring partners he was smashing them up so badly. I heard holyfield tellig a story just last night when they sparred. Holyfield was 21 years old. Him and tyson we,re actually on the olympic b team. Tyson was smashing apart all the other olympians in the gym. So Holyfield offered to spar him. Tysons handlers we,re actually apprehensive incase holyfield got a bad beating. Pretty sure they started the spar with tyson only allowed to use his left hand. He was 17 years old. Thats the kind of level we,re talking. According to holyfield it went his way even with the use of both hands but you ve got to ask yourself the question why are his own handlers only letting him use the left.

Nowadays everyones version of events is they beat tyson in sparring. I remember it back then the stories coming out we,re no one could stay in with him. No one was claiming a win back then. Just years later.

Tyson was trained like an animal. As a result he was head and shoulders above everyone else....and then he started preparing like an amatuer. If we,re talking about the one that was training like an animal...he,d knock joshua out.....early. two different level of fighters.

Good post and you're spot on about what an achievement it was to win the title at 20. I was a kid at the time so didn't appreciate just how young that was. As I've got older the big thing that stands out for me is that he won the title, not only at such a young age but after only being pro for 18 months. That's an incredible achievement! And he was smashing people to pieces to do it. He was kept very busy and I expect they knew discipline would be a problem for him, especially when fame came calling. Physically Tyson had an awesome skillset but discipline is no more an excuse for not fulfilling potential than a glass jaw is, and at least discipline is something that is in your own hands. I think prime Ali, Holyfield, Bowe, Foreman would all have beat a prime Tyson due to how they match-up against each other and I don't have Tyson high on the all-time ratings but no doubt he was a phenomenal fighter in his brief prime.

Exactly right mate. Discipline is just as important as any attribute. Tyson lost his discipline. His career and his potential went unfulfilled. Arguably you could say it was a schedule training and fighting no one could keep up anyway. His fall from grace was probably always inevitable or he would have regressed anyway as his life went on. But for me your looking we we,re looking at the greatest 20 year old heavyweight of all time at his best. Take out that they we,re fighting every month or two. Give him say 4 or 5 months of preparation i say he could potentially beat anyone.

It was a special set of circumstances that led to that title. It allowed them to concentrate on nothing but boxing from about 14 years old with one goal in mind.

Not saying he would have always been like that but for that short period of time...i dont think any heavyweight had that combination of speed and power. Then you add in the combination punching/head movement. He pretty much had it all.

Agree tho in terms of career theres loads of guys ahead of him. But tyson never got where he ended up by just slipping a bit or getting found out....it was basically years of pretty much living like an amatuer actually think its telling he was still able to compete.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I am not over rating AJ or under rating Iron Mike. AJ 2017, post Wlad, would be too much for any version of Tyson who was always one excellent big man away from defeat, imo.

AJ just did something Tyson was never able to do (until after retirement); come back from the brink. AJ would survive the early adversity and put Tyson away mid to late, if he did not just dispatch him in the early firefight.

2017 AJ is too big, strong, powerful, dedicated and smart for any version of Tyson, although it would be fun while it lasted.

Its one thing surviving thd onslaught from one of the most hard punching yet reluctant heavyweights of all time, another entirely to survive being hurt by tyson in his prime.

I agree that if he could survive he would have the tools to beat tyson into submission, but getting to that point would have been far from a racing certainty.

Anything can happen between two quality HWs. 2017 AJ post Wlad would NOT be intimidated by any incarnation of Tyson though. I think that an early KTFO by AJ would be more likely than vice versa. But, we will never know.

I think its easy to underestimate just how much of an aura tyson had. But like you say, all conjecture.

[Ossyrules]

Think tysons seriously underrated nowadays. To a scary level. In terms of career...hes rated about right...it was a let down in the end...but in terms of how good he was for a short period of time....hes massively underrated.

No ones come close to smashing the division at 20 years old since. Dont think people realise how difficult and how much of an achievement that was. To boot that 80,s division is seriously underrated. If anyone gets the chance go back and watch them. They could do it all. Great jabs. Good footwork. Great punch variations. Great engines. Could fight going backwards. Had good boxing iq. Could move well all directions. Good head movement Good combination punchers.

Now compare that to someone like molina or breazeale. I dont think they tick any of them boxes. They dont actually do anything well.

The 80,s guys get stick probably because their wasnt a stand out champion just prior to tyson coming along but it was a deep division filled with talent.

They couldnt get the kid sparring partners he was smashing them up so badly. I heard holyfield tellig a story just last night when they sparred. Holyfield was 21 years old. Him and tyson we,re actually on the olympic b team. Tyson was smashing apart all the other olympians in the gym. So Holyfield offered to spar him. Tysons handlers we,re actually apprehensive incase holyfield got a bad beating. Pretty sure they started the spar with tyson only allowed to use his left hand. He was 17 years old. Thats the kind of level we,re talking. According to holyfield it went his way even with the use of both hands but you ve got to ask yourself the question why are his own handlers only letting him use the left.

Nowadays everyones version of events is they beat tyson in sparring. I remember it back then the stories coming out we,re no one could stay in with him. No one was claiming a win back then. Just years later.

Tyson was trained like an animal. As a result he was head and shoulders above everyone else....and then he started preparing like an amatuer. If we,re talking about the one that was training like an animal...he,d knock joshua out.....early. two different level of fighters.

Good post and you're spot on about what an achievement it was to win the title at 20. I was a kid at the time so didn't appreciate just how young that was. As I've got older the big thing that stands out for me is that he won the title, not only at such a young age but after only being pro for 18 months. That's an incredible achievement! And he was smashing people to pieces to do it. He was kept very busy and I expect they knew discipline would be a problem for him, especially when fame came calling. Physically Tyson had an awesome skillset but discipline is no more an excuse for not fulfilling potential than a glass jaw is, and at least discipline is something that is in your own hands. I think prime Ali, Holyfield, Bowe, Foreman would all have beat a prime Tyson due to how they match-up against each other and I don't have Tyson high on the all-time ratings but no doubt he was a phenomenal fighter in his brief prime.

Exactly right mate. Discipline is just as important as any attribute. Tyson lost his discipline. His career and his potential went unfulfilled. Arguably you could say it was a schedule training and fighting no one could keep up anyway. His fall from grace was probably always inevitable or he would have regressed anyway as his life went on. But for me your looking we we,re looking at the greatest 20 year old heavyweight of all time at his best. Take out that they we,re fighting every month or two. Give him say 4 or 5 months of preparation i say he could potentially beat anyone.

It was a special set of circumstances that led to that title. It allowed them to concentrate on nothing but boxing from about 14 years old with one goal in mind.

Not saying he would have always been like that but for that short period of time...i dont think any heavyweight had that combination of speed and power. Then you add in the combination punching/head movement. He pretty much had it all.

Agree tho in terms of career theres loads of guys ahead of him. But tyson never got where he ended up by just slipping a bit or getting found out....it was basically years of pretty much living like an amatuer actually think its telling he was still able to compete.

Nice to read some proper balanced tyson appreciation on here. Nice posts boys

[mustlogin]

Tyson with superior foot speed has a chance for quick ko but if that doesn't happen, Joshua is likely ko him.

I'd say:
Joshua 70%
Tyson 30%

[bbjc]

From a head-to-head perspective, how do the people picking AJ rate him on an all-time basis? Top ten? Top twenty? I specify those who picked AJ, because I think I have a better idea of what the 'Tyson easy KO' people would say.

How would he do against fighters such as:

-Frazier
-Louis
-Ali
-Riddick Blowe
-Holyfield
-Foreman
-Holmes
-Norton
-Marciano
-Butterbean
-Dempsey
-Liston
-Lewis

Tbh its so difficult to compare eras that far apart. The changes in fighters over the years has been massive even down to the preparation/training etc. To me joshuas an average boxer at best whereas some of these guys we,re unbelievable boxers. But at the same time joshuas a phenominal speciman. 6 foot 6 250 pounds. All pretty much muscle by the looks of things anyway. Its hard to say which one would be more effective in a head to head.

These guys we,re specifically training boxing whereas joshua seems to be mainly sport science. Its lead to a big skill gap between them in terms of boxing skills but at the same time hes probably a good bit stronger. Who knows how it would pan out for sure. But one things certain in terms of boxing skills a lot of these guys we,re light years above joshua.

[bbjc]

Good post and you're spot on about what an achievement it was to win the title at 20. I was a kid at the time so didn't appreciate just how young that was. As I've got older the big thing that stands out for me is that he won the title, not only at such a young age but after only being pro for 18 months. That's an incredible achievement! And he was smashing people to pieces to do it. He was kept very busy and I expect they knew discipline would be a problem for him, especially when fame came calling. Physically Tyson had an awesome skillset but discipline is no more an excuse for not fulfilling potential than a glass jaw is, and at least discipline is something that is in your own hands. I think prime Ali, Holyfield, Bowe, Foreman would all have beat a prime Tyson due to how they match-up against each other and I don't have Tyson high on the all-time ratings but no doubt he was a phenomenal fighter in his brief prime.

Exactly right mate. Discipline is just as important as any attribute. Tyson lost his discipline. His career and his potential went unfulfilled. Arguably you could say it was a schedule training and fighting no one could keep up anyway. His fall from grace was probably always inevitable or he would have regressed anyway as his life went on. But for me your looking we we,re looking at the greatest 20 year old heavyweight of all time at his best. Take out that they we,re fighting every month or two. Give him say 4 or 5 months of preparation i say he could potentially beat anyone.

It was a special set of circumstances that led to that title. It allowed them to concentrate on nothing but boxing from about 14 years old with one goal in mind.

Not saying he would have always been like that but for that short period of time...i dont think any heavyweight had that combination of speed and power. Then you add in the combination punching/head movement. He pretty much had it all.

Agree tho in terms of career theres loads of guys ahead of him. But tyson never got where he ended up by just slipping a bit or getting found out....it was basically years of pretty much living like an amatuer actually think its telling he was still able to compete.

Nice to read some proper balanced tyson appreciation on here. Nice posts boys

Cheers ossy.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Tysons reign of terror was short, but as impressive as anybody. His flattening of spinks sums up much about him. Spinks was beaten long before the staredown. Spinks had destroyed cooney and beaten holmes in two tough fights, but his arse went at the prospect of facing tyson at his peak.

[jamesmcdonnell]

From a head-to-head perspective, how do the people picking AJ rate him on an all-time basis? Top ten? Top twenty? I specify those who picked AJ, because I think I have a better idea of what the 'Tyson easy KO' people would say.

How would he do against fighters such as:

-Frazier
-Louis
-Ali
-Riddick Blowe
-Holyfield
-Foreman
-Holmes
-Norton
-Marciano
-Butterbean
-Dempsey
-Liston
-Lewis

Tbh its so difficult to compare eras that far apart. The changes in fighters over the years has been massive even down to the preparation/training etc. To me joshuas an average boxer at best whereas some of these guys we,re unbelievable boxers. But at the same time joshuas a phenominal speciman. 6 foot 6 250 pounds. All pretty much muscle by the looks of things anyway. Its hard to say which one would be more effective in a head to head.

These guys we,re specifically training boxing whereas joshua seems to be mainly sport science. Its lead to a big skill gap between them in terms of boxing skills but at the same time hes probably a good bit stronger. Who knows how it would pan out for sure. But one things certain in terms of boxing skills a lot of these guys we,re light years above joshua.

Joshua has great tools, but like all really big men lacks movement and stamina. I do think that once you get over 220 pounds it becomes a trade off, especially big body builder types like joshua. It was notable that wlad seemed to have better stamina at 41 than the much younger joshua. I dare say joshua could shed 10-15 lbs of packed muscle and be better tgan he is now.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Bowe was a big big man, off the top of my head he was 230-235 in his prime, with no pumped up muscles, just a big frame. His first fight with holyfield was fought at s frantic pace and holy at i think 205 was able to stand and trade on an alnost equal footing.

Joshua would drown in a fight of that pace. His power is talked about as if its other worldly, but its worth remembering wlad, not the most robust in terms of resisting being hurt or recuperative powers got off his arse to almost destroy him.

[Boxerbeetle]

Tyson for me. I like Joshua as he's aggressive and entertaining to watch, as well as being very humble, but I'd take young Tyson to stop him in 2.

[bbjc]

From a head-to-head perspective, how do the people picking AJ rate him on an all-time basis? Top ten? Top twenty? I specify those who picked AJ, because I think I have a better idea of what the 'Tyson easy KO' people would say.

How would he do against fighters such as:

-Frazier
-Louis
-Ali
-Riddick Blowe
-Holyfield
-Foreman
-Holmes
-Norton
-Marciano
-Butterbean
-Dempsey
-Liston
-Lewis

Tbh its so difficult to compare eras that far apart. The changes in fighters over the years has been massive even down to the preparation/training etc. To me joshuas an average boxer at best whereas some of these guys we,re unbelievable boxers. But at the same time joshuas a phenominal speciman. 6 foot 6 250 pounds. All pretty much muscle by the looks of things anyway. Its hard to say which one would be more effective in a head to head.

These guys we,re specifically training boxing whereas joshua seems to be mainly sport science. Its lead to a big skill gap between them in terms of boxing skills but at the same time hes probably a good bit stronger. Who knows how it would pan out for sure. But one things certain in terms of boxing skills a lot of these guys we,re light years above joshua.

Joshua has great tools, but like all really big men lacks movement and stamina. I do think that once you get over 220 pounds it becomes a trade off, especially big body builder types like joshua. It was notable that wlad seemed to have better stamina at 41 than the much younger joshua. I dare say joshua could shed 10-15 lbs of packed muscle and be better tgan he is now.

I genuinely think people are wrong regarding joshuas stamina. Theres nothing wrong with it at all...he can fight at pace no problem. What hes got is a chin problem...and when thats tagged pretty much everything goes...including his stamina. His brains about the only thing that doesnt shut down it kept him in the fight against klitchko.

Sure i read something the other night from past opponents...the early ones. He broke one of their retinas the other guy was like his powers unbelievable damages you just hitting arms. Pretty much everytime he went forward against klitchko he had him toiling. Joshua has big power hes pretty much designed for it. Hes a bit predictable at times. Chins poor. His footworks slow. Another big flaw is his speed going backwards...hes like a truck going backwards. His hand are pretty fast for a big guy tho. Hes got size/athletism his power his boxings maybe a little bit underated for todays standard anyway. I d say overall tho his flaws arent as big as they should be for a 250 pound man.

But that powers big without it hes not nearly as succesful as hes been. They have traded tho...your right. But the trade offs not been nearly as much as everyone thats been around boxing expected. Leads me to two possible conclusions...their able to get more out of them nowadays with the use of sports science etc. Or...hes on something.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Tbh its so difficult to compare eras that far apart. The changes in fighters over the years has been massive even down to the preparation/training etc. To me joshuas an average boxer at best whereas some of these guys we,re unbelievable boxers. But at the same time joshuas a phenominal speciman. 6 foot 6 250 pounds. All pretty much muscle by the looks of things anyway. Its hard to say which one would be more effective in a head to head.

These guys we,re specifically training boxing whereas joshua seems to be mainly sport science. Its lead to a big skill gap between them in terms of boxing skills but at the same time hes probably a good bit stronger. Who knows how it would pan out for sure. But one things certain in terms of boxing skills a lot of these guys we,re light years above joshua.

Joshua has great tools, but like all really big men lacks movement and stamina. I do think that once you get over 220 pounds it becomes a trade off, especially big body builder types like joshua. It was notable that wlad seemed to have better stamina at 41 than the much younger joshua. I dare say joshua could shed 10-15 lbs of packed muscle and be better tgan he is now.

I genuinely think people are wrong regarding joshuas stamina. Theres nothing wrong with it at all...he can fight at pace no problem. What hes got is a chin problem...and when thats tagged pretty much everything goes...including his stamina. His brains about the only thing that doesnt shut down it kept him in the fight against klitchko.

Sure i read something the other night from past opponents...the early ones. He broke one of their retinas the other guy was like his powers unbelievable damages you just hitting arms. Pretty much everytime he went forward against klitchko he had him toiling. Joshua has big power hes pretty much designed for it. Hes a bit predictable at times. Chins poor. His footworks slow. Another big flaw is his speed going backwards...hes like a truck going backwards. His hand are pretty fast for a big guy tho. Hes got size/athletism his power his boxings maybe a little bit underated for todays standard anyway. I d say overall tho his flaws arent as big as they should be for a 250 pound man.

But that powers big without it hes not nearly as succesful as hes been. They have traded tho...your right. But the trade offs not been nearly as much as everyone thats been around boxing expected. Leads me to two possible conclusions...their able to get more out of them nowadays with the use of sports science etc. Or...hes on something.

Joshua has the stamina you would expect of a big man with huge muscles. He punched himself out in a fight that was hardly frenetic. Big muscles suck oxygen fast, his stamina is never going to be great. Go watch holyfield and bowes first fight, and the output of both men and compare. Bowe was 6 5 but not cut or stacked with muscles. He fought at a furious pace against evander over thd whole didtance.

[bbjc]

Joshua has great tools, but like all really big men lacks movement and stamina. I do think that once you get over 220 pounds it becomes a trade off, especially big body builder types like joshua. It was notable that wlad seemed to have better stamina at 41 than the much younger joshua. I dare say joshua could shed 10-15 lbs of packed muscle and be better tgan he is now.

I genuinely think people are wrong regarding joshuas stamina. Theres nothing wrong with it at all...he can fight at pace no problem. What hes got is a chin problem...and when thats tagged pretty much everything goes...including his stamina. His brains about the only thing that doesnt shut down it kept him in the fight against klitchko.

Sure i read something the other night from past opponents...the early ones. He broke one of their retinas the other guy was like his powers unbelievable damages you just hitting arms. Pretty much everytime he went forward against klitchko he had him toiling. Joshua has big power hes pretty much designed for it. Hes a bit predictable at times. Chins poor. His footworks slow. Another big flaw is his speed going backwards...hes like a truck going backwards. His hand are pretty fast for a big guy tho. Hes got size/athletism his power his boxings maybe a little bit underated for todays standard anyway. I d say overall tho his flaws arent as big as they should be for a 250 pound man.

But that powers big without it hes not nearly as succesful as hes been. They have traded tho...your right. But the trade offs not been nearly as much as everyone thats been around boxing expected. Leads me to two possible conclusions...their able to get more out of them nowadays with the use of sports science etc. Or...hes on something.

Joshua has the stamina you would expect of a big man with huge muscles. He punched himself out in a fight that was hardly frenetic. Big muscles suck oxygen fast, his stamina is never going to be great. Go watch holyfield and bowes first fight, and the output of both men and compare. Bowe was 6 5 but not cut or stacked with muscles. He fought at a furious pace against evander over thd whole didtance.

Look at the both times he gassed mate. Both times we,re directly after getting tagged hard against klitchko and dillon whyte. Before getting tagged hard he was fighting at pace no problem. It had very little to do with punching himself out. It was the same thing both times he shuts down when hes hit hard on the chin.

Totally get where your coming from with the big man with big muscles has bad stamina.. But if you look at him closely his staminas not going cause hes tyring...it goes cause hes hit hard. It shuts him down. People are putting two and 2 together and getting 5 imo regarding his stamina. Big men usually always tyre out quicker. People are thinking hes just tyring with the pace. I dont think he is...its when hes hit hard. As i said hes either something we,ve never seen before or hes on something.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'd take Mike over Norton, Marciano, Dempsey & butterbean.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I genuinely think people are wrong regarding joshuas stamina. Theres nothing wrong with it at all...he can fight at pace no problem. What hes got is a chin problem...and when thats tagged pretty much everything goes...including his stamina. His brains about the only thing that doesnt shut down it kept him in the fight against klitchko.

Sure i read something the other night from past opponents...the early ones. He broke one of their retinas the other guy was like his powers unbelievable damages you just hitting arms. Pretty much everytime he went forward against klitchko he had him toiling. Joshua has big power hes pretty much designed for it. Hes a bit predictable at times. Chins poor. His footworks slow. Another big flaw is his speed going backwards...hes like a truck going backwards. His hand are pretty fast for a big guy tho. Hes got size/athletism his power his boxings maybe a little bit underated for todays standard anyway. I d say overall tho his flaws arent as big as they should be for a 250 pound man.

But that powers big without it hes not nearly as succesful as hes been. They have traded tho...your right. But the trade offs not been nearly as much as everyone thats been around boxing expected. Leads me to two possible conclusions...their able to get more out of them nowadays with the use of sports science etc. Or...hes on something.

Joshua has the stamina you would expect of a big man with huge muscles. He punched himself out in a fight that was hardly frenetic. Big muscles suck oxygen fast, his stamina is never going to be great. Go watch holyfield and bowes first fight, and the output of both men and compare. Bowe was 6 5 but not cut or stacked with muscles. He fought at a furious pace against evander over thd whole didtance.

Look at the both times he gassed mate. Both times we,re directly after getting tagged hard against klitchko and dillon whyte. Before getting tagged hard he was fighting at pace no problem. It had very little to do with punching himself out. It was the same thing both times he shuts down when hes hit hard on the chin.

Totally get where your coming from with the big man with big muscles has bad stamina.. But if you look at him closely his staminas not going cause hes tyring...it goes cause hes hit hard. It shuts him down. People are putting two and 2 together and getting 5 imo regarding his stamina. Big men usually always tyre out quicker. People are thinking hes just tyring with the pace. I dont think he is...its when hes hit hard. As i said hes either something we,ve never seen before or hes on something.

Im afraid we will have to agree to disagree.