BoxRec

Carter, Fernandez, and Torres were all pretty good punchers for example.

hhaehre wrote:

Kalan wrote:LMFAO... Yeah!! ... Like Hearns was anxious to fight Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum, Reggie Johnson, Iran Barkley, and other guys Toney toyed with.

They would ALL knock the skinny little chinny cherry-picker coo-coo.

Hearns had massive and epic fights with boxing legends Hagler, Leonard and Duran. Fights that lived up to the hype and are widely talked about to this day, fights that went down in history as some of the greatest. Toney had only one truly big and anticipated fight in his career and we all know what happened in that fight don't we Kalan?

I consider Toney a great fighter but he just never had the legendary fights or the career of Hearns. Toney had the better chin but he didn't have the natural power of Hearns and he couldn't box like Tommy, not many could. People loved to watch Tommy, they never cared much about Toney.

Those fights weren't epic. The only thing that happened when Hearns fought anyone his size of that protected group is he added another KO LOSS to his L column.. Toney never got stopped.. For ATG fighters we're talking P4P greatest chin in History (Toney) versus P4P weakest chin in History (Hearns).

Show me an ATG Middleweight Champion who went up to Heavyweight and tried to fight Heavyweight Champions like Evander Holyfield and Sam Peter who weren't knocked out.. Bob Fitzsimmons, Stanley Ketchel, Mickey Walker, and Roy Jones are the only other ATG 160-champs who tried that.. Fitzsimmons, Ketchel, and Walker all got knocked out.. Jones was successful against a really bad Heavyweight, but he was knocked out so many times it's ridiculous.

Cojimar 1946 wrote:Dick Tiger seems to have faced better punchers than Hagler. Wouldn't his durability be proven at a higher level?

Right... Dick Tiger was even more wide open than Marv Hagler... He never blinked until he fought Bob Foster -- something Hagler wouldn't dream of trying.

Kalan wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

Kalan wrote:LMFAO... Yeah!! ... Like Hearns was anxious to fight Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum, Reggie Johnson, Iran Barkley, and other guys Toney toyed with.

They would ALL knock the skinny little chinny cherry-picker coo-coo.

Hearns had massive and epic fights with boxing legends Hagler, Leonard and Duran. Fights that lived up to the hype and are widely talked about to this day, fights that went down in history as some of the greatest. Toney had only one truly big and anticipated fight in his career and we all know what happened in that fight don't we Kalan?

I consider Toney a great fighter but he just never had the legendary fights or the career of Hearns. Toney had the better chin but he didn't have the natural power of Hearns and he couldn't box like Tommy, not many could. People loved to watch Tommy, they never cared much about Toney.

Those fights weren't epic.

Whatever you say chief, now you go and enjoy the one sided bore fest that was Toney-Jones. Toney's only real big-time fight.

Toney vs Holyfield was much bigger... I don't think Toney-Jones was even PPV.

Also Toney-Nunn was epic... and Toney-McCallum 1 was epic... and Toney-Jirov was epic

Hearns got stretched in epic fashion ... That's about the most epic I've seen him -- after an ice job was performed on the boy.

Hearns lost his massive, defining fights with Leonard and Hagler and by stoppage. How does participating in mega fights and losing badly reflect positively on his legacy? It's not like these losses are even controversial.

And lost his 1st fight and the rematch with Iran Barkley... Another double dinger.

Jack Dempsey achieved more worldwide fame then Gene Tunney... Doesn't mean he was a better boxer.

Ali achieved more worldwide fame than Larry Holmes... Doesn't mean he was a better boxer.

Mike Tyson achieved more worldwide fame than Lennox Lewis... Doesn't mean he was a better boxer.

Of course ... Hearns was noted for being knocked dead to a degree... Toney certainly wasn't.

Kalan wrote:Toney vs Holyfield was much bigger... I don't think Toney-Jones was even PPV.

Also Toney-Nunn was epic... and Toney-McCallum 1 was epic... and Toney-Jirov was epic

Hearns got stretched in epic fashion ... That's about the most epic I've seen him -- after an ice job was performed on the boy.

Jones/toney was definitely ppv and miles bigger than the holyfield fight. You could only dream about boxing like Tommy hearns. Same goes for toney

Dreams??? Tommy Hearns defense was so bad he got smashed right on the chin with KO shots.. Couldn't avoid them.. Knocked out 3 X in his 20's.

Nobody wants to get stretched like Tommy in their worst nightmares - let alone dreams... Mayweather was dumped once in his career and that was a glove touch. That's the kind of boxing ability you go for.. Toney was another master -- never stopped.. Mike McCallum? Fought the best and never stopped.. Reggie Johnson? Fought hard punching Middleweights like Toney and brilliant Light Heavyweights like Antonio Tarver and Roy Jones at 175 and never stopped.

Tommy wished he had that kind of defensive skill. That's why he got KTFO by crude swingers like Barkley instead of McCallum, Nunn, Toney etc.

Cherry picker.

Kalan wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 13:57 Dreams??? Tommy Hearns defense was so bad he got smashed right on the chin with KO shots.. Couldn't avoid them.. Knocked out 3 X in his 20's.

Nobody wants to get stretched like Tommy in their worst nightmares - let alone dreams... Mayweather was dumped once in his career and that was a glove touch. That's the kind of boxing ability you go for.. Toney was another master -- never stopped.. Mike McCallum? Fought the best and never stopped.. Reggie Johnson? Fought hard punching Middleweights like Toney and brilliant Light Heavyweights like Antonio Tarver and Roy Jones at 175 and never stopped.

Tommy wished he had that kind of defensive skill. That's why he got KTFO by crude swingers like Barkley instead of McCallum, Nunn, Toney etc.

Cherry picker.

You sound like a crazy person, one of those guys who scream at people on the subway. Good luck is all I can say.

golden oldie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 19:21

Ali achieved more worldwide fame than Larry Holmes... Doesn't mean he was a better boxer.

Yes he was.

Mike Tyson achieved more worldwide fame than Lennox Lewis... Doesn't mean he was a better boxer.

That is because he wasn't.

Of course ... Hearns was noted for being knocked dead to a degree... Toney certainly wasn't.

That might well be due to the fact that one of them ( the muppet ) called himself " Lights Out, when in reality he could just about knock out a light bulb ( as evidenced by his miserable 51% K.O. ratio, ) compared to the other guy who scored some of the best KO's witnessed by boxing fans. 72% from Welter to Cruiserweight.

Mike Tyson achieved " worldwide fame " because the subhuman filth is a CONVICTED RAPIST. Even that " infamy " didn't allow him to achieve the recognition to the public that Ali achieved throughout the world.

You're being ridiculous again, pretending Ali was a better boxer than Holmes when he was out-punched 100 to 1.. That why Ali fought tyro Leon Spinks -- because Holmes was the best fighter in the world and would have beaten the shiit out of him.. When Spinks was stripped and the Title and the Title awarded to Holmes -- Ali fought Spinks again and continued to ignore him.. Ali retired without any intention of ever fighting Holmes.

Tyson achieved worldwide fame because he won his first 10 World Heavyweight Title Fights -- which Ali was not able to do.. And if you're pretending Tyson wasn't Heavyweight Champion til he beat Michael Spinks, then Ali wasn't champion til he beat Ernie Terrell. It's a little more prestigious to beat the more talented Spinks Bro in the manner Tyson did than to beat Terrell in the fashion Ali did.

As far as "Lights Out" being a misnomer for James Toney??? ... He was one of 2 men who ever stopped Evander Holyfield... Toney was the ONLY man who ever knocked out Michael Nunn... Nunn beat Iran Barkley, who blasted Tommy Hearns' "Lights Out" on one occasion -- and beat him on points on another.

Tyson doesn't believe that if he said it...which I doubt. It sounds more like something you made up out of whole cloth. However, Tyson now makes his living off his public image and fame, not his ring skills – so like George Foreman he’s saying a great many humble things. Like he was interviewed on the Klitschko Bros and said “Fighters today are better not worse. Athletes improve with better training and exercise and nutrition than we had.”

If you're a public figure, your job is to build your popularity – not to say something that might be interpreted by anyone as conceited or arrogant. Before President Eisenhower went out to give an important speech (that was written by his speechwriters as usual) he told an aid, “time to dazzle them with bullshiit.”

Ali had nobody to fight in the 60’s. Liston was old. Patterson was teensy. Terrell was a gangly uncoordinated wrestler who was difficult to miss with a punch. Williams was a shot up punching bag by the time Ali fought him. Folley was an old holdover from the ‘50s. Cooper and Mildenberger caught Ali with a ton of punches – but they were so slow and knockoutable...and so clumsy they wouldn’t have been Heavyweight Contenders in any decade following the 60’s.

The 21-year-old Ali and the 21-year-old Mike Tyson both fought Light Heavyweights.

Ali fought failed Light Heavyweight Challenger Doug Jones (Harold Johnson out-boxed Jones every round) and Tyson fought UNDEFEATED ATG LINEAL LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT AND HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION MICHAEL SPINKS.. Doug Jones pounded a tattoo on pre-exile Ali (then Clay) and lost a close, controversial decision.. Michael Spinks couldn’t lay a glove on pre-exile Tyson and was crushed in 90 seconds.

Ali was by and large facing much better opponents after his comeback than he was in the 60s. Perhaps this has something to do with him looking less impressive rather than a dramatic decline which seems rather implausible given he was only 28 when he started fighting again. Aside from Sonny Liston most of his 60s opponents were not especially impressive and certainly much less formidable than Frazier, Norton, etc.

golden oldie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2017, 08:36
I couldn't care less what you think ( you don't ) or believe. Start at 4.17 of this clip, and don't bother giving me a choice of who to believe out of Tyson, or Walter Mitty ( you).

https://youtu.be/MF17mkqyf44?t=1

To be fair Ali was his idol, Tyson was always humble when these type of questions were asked. Ali said he thought Tyson would beat him, I would take all these things with a pinch of salt

Controversial wrote: ↑02 Nov 2017, 09:20

golden oldie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2017, 08:36
I couldn't care less what you think ( you don't ) or believe. Start at 4.17 of this clip, and don't bother giving me a choice of who to believe out of Tyson, or Walter Mitty ( you).

https://youtu.be/MF17mkqyf44?t=1

To be fair Ali was his idol, Tyson was always humble when these type of questions were asked. Ali said he thought Tyson would beat him, I would take all these things with a pinch of salt

A BIG pinch of salt.. You heard the truthful things Tyson said -- the stuff he really meant where he wasn't trying to Bullshiit anybody.. Mike said... "Ali never threw a body shot in his life.. He didn't have a good defense and he threw sloppy punches." Those are 3 reasons why Tyson would have murdered Ali.. That bumbling Ali really existed -- and not the legend of the super fast mythical figure.. Tyson was bigger and stronger and harder punching at 21 than Ali ever was... Ali couldn't hurt the chinny Norton in 3 attempts and other Heavyweights knocked Norton dead.

And because Tyson ran over boxers and movers who couldn't hit hard: Pinklon Thomas, Tyrell Biggs, Michael Spinks (212 Pounds), Tony Tubbs, and Truth Williams all took massive beatings from Tyson... Ali would do the same... Ali never fought anyone remotely like Tyson. The most truthful thing that Ali ever said was that Tyson would have beaten him..

I suppose it's also dependent on which big punchers have hit them,so definitely Hagler is up there,Oliver McCall too.

Hagler? ... I'm not too sure.

Hearns was coming off impressive KO wins over Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings at 154.. 154 was his best weight for sure and wasn't as great a puncher at 160... Mugabi had a little more heft on his shots than Hearns and he bothered Hagler a lot.. Hagler was also floored once.. McCallum ripped undefeated bomber Julian Jackson out in 2 rounds after taking a smashing right hander directly on his chin..

McCallum took punches from great fighters in 4 different weight divisions and was never bothered.. McCall and Vitali were the only 2 Heavyweight Champs who were never floored or shaken... They were never bothered by anything that ever hit them and VK was Heavyweight Champion 3 X.

Kalan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2017, 13:54 Hagler? ... I'm not too sure.

Hearns was coming off impressive KO wins over Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings at 154.. 154 was his best weight for sure and wasn't as great a puncher at 160... Mugabi had a little more heft on his shots than Hearns and he bothered Hagler a lot.. Hagler was also floored once.. McCallum ripped undefeated bomber Julian Jackson out in 2 rounds after taking a smashing right hander directly on his chin..

McCallum took punches from great fighters in 4 different weight divisions and was never bothered.. McCall and Vitali were the only 2 Heavyweight Champs who were never floored or shaken... They were never bothered by anything that ever hit them and VK was Heavyweight Champion 3 X.

If it were possible, try telling James Shuler that Tommy Hearns wasn't a great puncher at 160.

While you're at it, ask Juan Domingo Roldan if Hearns wasn't a great puncher at 160 too.

Hagler had a chin from the ages & he was never legitimately floored: That 'knockdown' against Roldan was never a knockdown & you know it.

I don't have a problem if fans voted for Marvelous to have the greatest boxing chin, pound per pound in history. He proved it many times against fighters that can hit:
Bennie Briscoe
Thomas Hearns
John "The Beast" Mugabi
Juan Domingo Roldan
Mustapha Hamsho

Syntax Error wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 08:27

Kalan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2017, 13:54 Hagler? ... I'm not too sure.

Hearns was coming off impressive KO wins over Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings at 154.. 154 was his best weight for sure and wasn't as great a puncher at 160... Mugabi had a little more heft on his shots than Hearns and he bothered Hagler a lot.. Hagler was also floored once.. McCallum ripped undefeated bomber Julian Jackson out in 2 rounds after taking a smashing right hander directly on his chin..

McCallum took punches from great fighters in 4 different weight divisions and was never bothered.. McCall and Vitali were the only 2 Heavyweight Champs who were never floored or shaken... They were never bothered by anything that ever hit them and VK was Heavyweight Champion 3 X.

If it were possible, try telling James Shuler that Tommy Hearns wasn't a great puncher at 160.

While you're at it, ask Juan Domingo Roldan if Hearns wasn't a great puncher at 160 too.

Hagler had a chin from the ages & he was never legitimately floored: That 'knockdown' against Roldan was never a knockdown & you know it.

Hagler being floored is not the only issue.. Hagler was hurt at times by little John Mugabi.. Bigger, stronger, and tougher Middleweights like James Toney would have ripped Hagler's head off... Toney had 10 X the skills of little John Mugabi, who gave Hagler a double head.. Mugabi won only 1 anemic world title at 154 in his whole career... Toney beat undefeated Olympic Gold Medal Winner Vasily Jirov for the World Cruiserweight Title... I'm certain Hagler would never have wanted to fight for that title -- or even the LHW Title... He lacked the heft to take the shots.

Syntax Error wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 08:27
That 'knockdown' against Roldan was never a knockdown & you know it.

But the thumb Hagler stuck in Roldan's eye was a thumb in the eye and you know it.

Kalan wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 23:46
Hagler being floored is not the only issue.. Hagler was hurt at times by little John Mugabi.. Bigger, stronger, and tougher Middleweights like James Toney would have ripped Hagler's head off... Toney had 10 X the skills of little John Mugabi, who gave Hagler a double head.. Mugabi won only 1 anemic world title at 154 in his whole career... Toney beat undefeated Olympic Gold Medal Winner Vasily Jirov for the World Cruiserweight Title... I'm certain Hagler would never have wanted to fight for that title -- or even the LHW Title... He lacked the heft to take the shots.

Who had the better chin Hagler or Hearns? Hearns won titles up to CW so using the above logic I assume you think Hearns did?

Hearns fought feather hitting Virgil Hill at 175... a flouncy character who Roy Jones blew away with ONE SHOT... Tommy couldn't move him.

When Tommy fought a half decent puncher like Iran Barkley -- he promptly got knocked on his ass again and lost again -- this time by D.

"Who had the better chin Hagler or Hearns? Hearns won titles up to CW so using the above logic I assume you think Hearns did?"

Any Cruiserweight fight Hearns had was a totally soft chinned cherry-pick and forgettable... James Toney's was extremely memorable.

Cuz it was an undefeated Olympic Gold Medal Winner who Toney beat ... Instead of cherry-picked Nate Miller who lost his 3rd fight in a row.