Heavyweight Division Greatest Chin Ever?

[Kalan]

Talking about Vitali Klitschko, a 3-time Heavyweight champion who was never floored and was never behind on points after ANY fight ....

feather fisted Byrd did stop him .... Ali was almost surreal in his ability to absorb .... the Banks shot was more about balance, as was the Wepner shot .... and even the Frazier shot was compromised by Ali's positioning

Vitali is currently Mayor of Kiev... A 100 hour a week (some weeks) job with a lot of responsibility... He fought to age 41 and shook the punishment off... He speaks 5 languages... Ali tried to speak English... You know damned well he was beating Byrd on ALL SCORECARDS and had not been hurt or down from a punch or a throwdown, or anything.. He was clean and facially unhurt.. He suffered a completely severed Rotator Cuff Assembly which was no fault of Byrd's so he got the lucky win.. That was pure luck and nobody knows that better than you.. Byrd didn't win a round in 19 tries with Wlad -- the ONLY one of their mutual opponents where Wladimir did better than Vitali.

Ali was knocked down several times but we both know the Wepner knockdown call was a mistake by the referee because he was standing on Ali's foot ... Ali was badly hurt from the knockdown from the 185-pound Cooper and stunned by the knockdown by Sonny Banks ... Joe Frazier decked Ali and Ali was hurt, and had he not had so much blood and swelling in his jaw from previous left hooks to cushion the impact of the last left hook he might have been knocked out right there.. HIs jaw was blown up like he was smuggling a cantaloupe in it.. Ali was lifted right off his pins so it had nothing to do with his balance.

Records:

Vitali: Never floored ... Never behind on points after any fight ... 3 X Heavyweight Champion ... Never suffered the slightest brain trauma ... Defensive master ... Fought to age 41, winning his last 12 fights which were ALL for the Heavyweight Championship of the World ... Better KO ratio and winning ratio than Ali accomplished ... Never padded his record with Light Heavyweights ... fought in an era when there were more Heavyweight Boxers from many more countries

Ali: Floored 3 X ... Behind on points after 5 fights all of which he lost ... 3 X Heavyweight Champion (once against Leon Spinks who he had to lose to) ... Fought to age 39, losing 3 of his last 4 fights because his defense was so poor and he was getting hit so much that his brain was effected by blows ... His last loss was a non-title fight, as was a previous loss ... Fought Light Heavyweights Doug Jones and Bob Foster as well as many other very little guys ... Fought in an era of limited competition

[BoxBuzz]

A lot of what you say is accurate....though not fully relevant. Also....you completely forgot to mention Vitali's impressive record of wins over nearly every "powder puff girl" on the block.

Though he did lose to the Powder Puff Byrd......Now I'll grant you that Lewis was no powder puff....but Vitali didn't win that one....so we probably shouldn't mention it.

None of these are bad things....just things.

[Kalan]

Don't put words in my mouth and lie about what I said..

It would have been a flash knockdown if Ali wasn't hurt at all.. I said Ali was hurt and shaken.. Even a slight tad wobbly.. Was he critically hurt to the point the odds shifted to Cooper to score the upset if he landed the punch earlier in the round??? No because Ali was 22 pounds heavier, faster, a better defender, and he already had Cooper badly cut to the point where they couldn't control the bleeding.

[gp.]

Next you will be claiming Tyson had a great chin because it took Douglas 10 rounds to stop him, Holyfield 11, Lewis 8, Williams 4, and McBride 6.

No, I won't be saying that, because it isn't relevant, you moron. Jesus Christ. I have met some cretins in my time but you take the effing prize. I hope you are not too old; I would hate to think that much of the world's valuable resources had been wasted keeping you alive.

That garbage just about sums up your level of intelligence. Somewhere there must be a pond you can slither back into.

Just so as you know Einstein the guy you are claiming has an ATG chin hasn't even come 3rd in the poll at the top of this thread. The funny part is I suspect your parents got family allowance for breeding you.

I'm claiming he has an ATG chin? Show me where I say that, you fuckwit. I've made no claim about his chin.

All I have said is that you can't say he hasn't got a chin because Lewis stopped him on cuts. That doesn't mean he has got a chin. Did you think I was standing up for Vitali? I was criticizing your logic, you dumb fornicate.

Instead of just slinging insults why don't you try slinging insults AND making actual points. That's what I am doing, you see. I earn the right to call you a fuckwitted inbred by showing how fornicating stupid the things you say are. You just do the insults, because you can't criticise my arguments. It seems that you can't even understand it and have just made cretinous assumptions all along. You don't even know who you are arguing with or why. Desperate, desperate stupidity.


Just lay out exactly why a man being stopped on cuts means he has a bad chin. Go on. Not stuff about Lewis being old. Why does Vitali Klitschko getting cut show his chin is poor? Simple question. Do you think you can answer it or are you just going to try childish obfuscation again? That only works with your friends who are no doubt even more fornicating stupid than you.

[SteveO]

Vitali: a quitter (Byrd).

Do you think you could fight with a torn rotator cuff?

[Tomasino]

Vitali: a quitter (Byrd).

Do you think you could fight with a torn rotator cuff?

No but I know other boxers that did. Don't you?

I did my rotator cuff last November and I've been rehabbing it trying to avoid an op since. For a week or two after it I could hardly open a door or pick up a shopping basket, never mind fight with it. Was my right hand and it went so weak I even became a bit softer with folk at work because I didn't fancy having to throw a punch with it. It can hit now but that's been ten odd months.

[gp.]

That garbage just about sums up your level of intelligence. Somewhere there must be a pond you can slither back into.

Just so as you know Einstein the guy you are claiming has an ATG chin hasn't even come 3rd in the poll at the top of this thread. The funny part is I suspect your parents got family allowance for breeding you.

I'm claiming he has an ATG chin? Show me where I say that, you fuckwit. I've made no claim about his chin.

All I have said is that you can't say he hasn't got a chin because Lewis stopped him on cuts. That doesn't mean he has got a chin. Did you think I was standing up for Vitali? I was criticizing your logic, you dumb eff.

Instead of just slinging insults why don't you try slinging insults AND making actual points. That's what I am doing, you see. I earn the right to call you a fuckwitted inbred by showing how effing stupid the things you say are. You just do the insults, because you can't criticise my arguments. It seems that you can't even understand it and have just made cretinous assumptions all along. You don't even know who you are arguing with or why. Desperate, desperate stupidity.


Just lay out exactly why a man being stopped on cuts means he has a bad chin. Go on. Not stuff about Lewis being old. Why does Vitali Klitschko getting cut show his chin is poor? Simple question. Do you think you can answer it or are you just going to try childish obfuscation again? That only works with your friends who are no doubt even more effing stupid than you.

I don't explain things to morons. I merely laugh at them, like I'm laughing at you.

However seeing as I generally feel sorry for the mentally challenged I'll give you a clue. Watch the last 2 minutes of round 6 then tell me how long you think Klitchlo's chin would have lasted. I'll tell you, another 2 rounds at most. There was NOTHING on his punches, and when the old out of shape Lewis landed anything even half decent his only tactic was to grab and hold.

A bit of free advice, every time you feel like putting your ignorant mouth into overdrive, try either using your eyes, or engaging what you believe to be your brain. Stupidity in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Trying to spread it around the way you do, can be problematic.

I don't need to watch the fornicating video, you fornicating idiotic pudendum, because I am not claiming Vitali had a good chin.

I am only telling you you can't claim he didn't because Lewis stopped him on cuts.

if you want to argue that Lewis troubled his chin at some other point in that fight that's a different fornicating argument.

JESUS CHRIST!

[Kalan]

https://youtu.be/alzu9t1CmRM?t=1549

At 4:04 of this video Lewis flagrantly elbows Vitali in the face and draws a loud warning from the referee who doesn’t stop the action. “Not the elbow. Watch the elbow.” 23 seconds later at 4:27 of the video Lewis again elbows Vitali in the face again and Moret says nothing.

At 9:18 of this video Emmanuel Steward tells Lewis that Vitali is winning the fight – then he tells him to start pushing Vitali after every punch. Everyone knows pushing is a foul in Boxing. Vitali’s trainer tells him he almost knocked Lewis out and they show slo-mo’s of Vitali’s big right hands.

At 10:09 the 3rd round bell rings.. At 10:17 Lewis throws a thumb strike with his right glove which opens a nick on VItali’s left eyelid.. Then Lewis immediately grabs Vitali around the neck with his left arm and pulls him into a clinch.. He then throws a holding-n-hitting palm rake, which rakes VItali left eyelid and left cheek slashing 2 deep gashes on Vitli’s eyelid and a deep cut on his cheek. That’s 95% of the cut damage right there.

At 15:33 of this video Lewis deliberately palms Vitali right in the face with his left glove, swiping at his eyes… Lou Moret doesn’t stop the action to issue a warning.. He gives Lewis a cursory warning with the palm of his left hand that Lewis doesn’t even pay attention to. Lewis doesn’t even look at Moret because he knows the man is in his pocket – but that action proved that Moret was aware that fouls contributed to the cuts and the fight should have gone to the scorecards, with Vitali winning a Unanimous Technical Decision.

In the 6th round, at 23:24 of this video, George Foreman says “Lewis is so tired, If Kltischko just hits him with a combination he’ll go down.” As the 6th round ends at 25:35 of this video Jim Lampley says “It’s all Lewis can do to stand up” and said Lewis was exhausted.

Golden Oldie sees what he want so see… He lives in his own little world.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Vitali had a solid chin, that and his size made up for his lack of punching power and offensive variety. It's a shame he was too afraid to fight Rahman and try to at least get a solid name on his abysmal resume.

[Kalan]

Vitali had a solid chin, that and his size made up for his lack of punching power and offensive variety. It's a shame he was too afraid to fight Rahman and try to at least get a solid name on his abysmal resume.

Vitali had tremendous punching power and holds the 2nd highest KO ratio of ALL retired Heavyweight Champions.. He put Herbie Hide out in 2 rounds and Hide was only previously stopped by Bowe in 6 mauling rounds.. He won his fist 27 fights by KO which is a record for anyone holding the Heavyweight Title.. He easily stopped rock jawed Sam Peter who had never been stopped before... At 40 years of age he was the first man to KO 2-Division World Champion Tomasz Adamek, 44-1.. He was the only man to ever KO Larry Donald.. He was the only man to ever KO Vaughn Bean as well as several others who had strong chins.

Compare his resume to a Heavyweight some consider the greatest of all time.

Vitali Klitschko's resume includes: Kirk Johnson, Corrie Sanders (Heavyweight Champon), Larry Donald, Herbie Hide (Heavyweight Champon), Lennox Lewis (ahead on points on all cards following the fight), Chris Byrd (ahead on points on all cards following the fight), Tomasz Adamek (2-Division World Champion), Shannon Briggs (2 time Heavyweight Champion who is younger than Vitali by 2 years.), Odlanier Solis (Olympic Gold Medal winner), Juan Carlos Gomez (World Cruiserweight Champion), Sam Peter (Reigning World Heavyweight Champion) --- won 15 World Heavyweight Championship Fights while never getting knocked down during his entire career... Vitali always ended ahead on points following all his fights... Was never was out-pointed, out-boxed, or out-punched... Was never knocked down... Was a 3-time Heavyweight Champion... Never fought anyone who weighed less than 210 pounds... Was beaten only twice, both due to injuries while leading on points on all scorecards in both losses... Was a World Military Championships Super Heavyweight Gold Medal Winner.. Holds the 2nd Highest KO ratio of any Heavyweight Champion who's not currently active (87%)... Fought to age 41 and still displayed superb skills by winning his last 13 fights in a row... Shows no ill effects other than severe leg injuries from 210 amateur boxing matches, 36 professional Kickboxing matches, and 47 professional boxing matches... Won his first 27 professional fights by KO, which included 3 World Heavyweight Championship Fights...

Contrast that with Muhammad Ali who lost more than twice as many fights... Was beaten by a huge underdog who had only 7 fights and weighted 197... Was beaten by a 10/1 underdog Norton... Was floored 4 times... Fought 41 opponents who weighed less than 210... Was badly battered and beaten to trash... Had his jaw shattered... Fought many very small Heavyweights and even Light Heavyweights... Fought to age 39 but couldn't complete well because the many head shots he absorbed ultimately ravaged his ability to box effectively... Lost 3 of his last 4 fights...

[BoxBuzz]

First of all Veggies are a good thing by any objective analysis....and should be considered superior to any meathead in close proximity.....second of all I am highly luminous.

So you need to buy yourself a coke, and just relax.

[Kalan]

No Coke for me... not a healthy drink and can dissolve a tooth overnight... Now the coke that comes in power form be especially wary of.

And your nose might be highly luminous...but not illuminating... And veggies aren't the ideal content for brain matter -- although you should try them.

I made a change to my last post... Is that better?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It's so cute you think I read those novels. Vitali was not a big puncher. Good fighter, tough man, not a hitter. That's the facts kid, as you get older you will realize that ko percentage is useless.

[Kalan]

It was a good stoppage... From the 3rd round on Vitali was getting hit with punches he couldn't see well... It was an unbelievably bad cut.

But since Vitali was palmed in the face and Lewis was warned for palming... And since Vitali was elbowed in the face and Lewis was warned for elbowing... And since their was illegal head contact and Lewis was warned for illegal use of the head.. we know fouls contributed to the cuts.

The fight should have gone to the scorecards -- with Vitali winning a Unanimous Technical Decision 6.

[Kalan]

Dempsey had a better chin than Ali... He walked straight in swinging for the fences and got ripped to shreds.. His only KO loss was a fraud where he took a dive a few seconds into his 1st fight with washed up Fireman Flynn.. Gamblers cleaned up.. In their rematch he put Flynn out with no effort a minute into round 1.

Dempsey seemed unaffected by the punishment he took.. He was clear as a bell, made eminent sense when he talked, and boxed in various exhibitions and carnival type fights – taking on all comers – til he was well into his 40’s. He was mentally clear and communicative up to his death at 87.

[BoxBuzz]

It appears that a couple of our contributors are having a hard time finding common ground..... I imagine you know who you are.

I'm going to ask that it stay below 212 farenheit. It's heading toward boiling, and I don't like to have to clean up the spillage.

And...I do like good give and take, and central headquarters is even geared up to handle a lot of heat between quarreling camps.

and please don't treat me like a domestic cop who has wandered into a spat between lovers....I just want to keep the place safe for the kiddies.

[BoxBuzz]

No no no, it's clear you are the very special sort...and have the skill and expertise to rise above it all with the benefit of your wise diplomatic savoir-faire..and the ol' panache. Leaving the rest to get mud on their wheels. You can be fully trusted and of course are not like the others.

And yes...thank you...I of course am a very funny guy and pride myself on my exquisite sense of humor...the very sort of humor that can bring a belly laugh to those like yourself...who are so very special.

Now....where were we? Ah yes....all getting along famously. With your good wishes I'm sure.


Awright eveverybody....move along.....nothing to see here.

I

[Kalan]

The rematch would have afforded Lewis a 40 million dollar payday if he went through with it... NOBODY was aware that Vitali could pound Lewis to within a wisker of a KO in 2 rounds -- and be winning on all 3 scorecards after 6 rounds -- even after being handicapped very early in the 3rd round with massive deep jagged cuts caused by a thumb strike and holding-n-hitting palm rake inflicted in the first 20 seconds of the third..

Literally everyone was excited about the proposed rematch... Lewis promised several times he would go through with the rematch, but he lied his ass off... Klitschko was made Lewis's mandatory challenger -- because VK was beating him on points and nearly knocked him out.. Everyone knew it.

The fans all knew Klitschko had the best of it... They cheered him out of the arena and booed the fouling Lewis... Had the fight gone to the scorecards like it would have if Lou Moret wasn't a corrupt referee -- Klitschko would have won a Unanimous Technical Decision.. Klitschko had 2 weeks to get ready for a World Heavyweight Championship Fight.. But Lewis had been training for a World Heavyweight Championship Fight for months.

And as everyone in the world is aware of except YOU oldie... Cuts do NOT reflect on your ability to absorb a punch -- and Klitschko was winning on all cards. That was the ONLY fight Lewis ever won on cuts. Vitali was not a bleeder. Those were the only serious cuts he ever suffered -- and they came from foul blows.

[Tony1244]

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/4537

At the risk of a double post, check this guy out. Great journeyman chin.

[Kalan]

Excellent...I forgot all about Marion.. He's the closest thing to Ollie McCall there ever was chin wise.. He could absorb true bombs -- uncanny resilience.

[Controversial]

Excellent...I forgot all about Marion.. He's the closest thing to Ollie McCall there ever was chin wise.. He could absorb true bombs -- uncanny resilience.

Even more impressive was he wasn't a particularly big guy either, 6'1" and weighed under 210lbs for most of his fights

[Kalan]

Yep... Marion didn't have much but that chin was unreal.

[elmersalsa]

When I saw the Ike Ibeabuchi vs David Tua fight I asked myself what do you have to do to put those guys down in the canvas? They hit each other with some tremendous shots and they didn't even flinch. And both of them can hit like a truck. You could feel the punching power through the tv. Man, those guys had incredible chins!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Rahman floored tua with a jab.

[elmersalsa]

Rahman floored tua with a jab.

But Tua didn't go down from Ibeaubuchi's uppercuts, right leads and left hooks. That's ironic. Lennox Lewis didn't hurt him, either. As a matter of fact, Lewis never slugged it out with him, but outboxed Tua.