BoxRec

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:That settles it.

Settles what?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:That settles it.

Settles what?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Overrating pascual Perez is no reason to forsake you.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Overrating pascual Perez is no reason to forsake you.

Check his career and we will have a good talk.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'm quite aware of his career. Once you assign a number to a fighter it may as well be the ten commandments. There is no discussion, you just manipulate and change criteria to keep it exactly the same.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'm quite aware of his career. Once you assign a number to a fighter it may as well be the ten commandments. There is no discussion, you just manipulate and change criteria to keep it exactly the same.

Manipulate what? Explain yourself.

Counter-puncher wrote:Get me some footage and prove me wrong, I saw Valero fight and he was no bodypuncher. You're FOS I dare you prove me wrong

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:But I'll play along for a second. Perez is #6 and Arizmendi is not on the list. Arizmendi has at least 7 wins better than any of Pascual's.

Armstrong x2(whom you consider the goat)
Newsboy Brown x2
Freddie Miller
Tommy Paul
Fidel LaBarba

Ok, lets have a good talk.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:But I'll play along for a second. Perez is #6 and Arizmendi is not on the list. Arizmendi has at least 7 wins better than any of Pascual's.

Armstrong x2(whom you consider the goat)
Newsboy Brown x2
Freddie Miller
Tommy Paul
Fidel LaBarba

Ok, lets have a good talk.

And Perez was a winner. One of boxing's most successful and great champions. He was most consistent, too.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Arizmendi won more fights, against better fighters.

elmersalsa wrote:The great Panama Al Brown became the first Hispanic/Latin fighter to ever capture a world title in 1929. Since the Panamanian great historical feat, Latin America has produced an unbelievable and unforgettable crop of fighters. The great Wilfred Benitez of Puerto Rico became the youngest world champion in history at age 17. Another great, Julio Cesar Chavez, of Mexico won more world championship bouts than any boxer in professional ranks. He won 31 title fights and fought in 34 that mattered. He also won 87 in a row from beginning of career. All those numbers are world records in boxing, and probably will never be broken. After Brown's achievement, Latin fighters didn't do much. Baby Arizmendi of Mexico made noise when he fought the great Henry Armstrong 5 times, winning the first two bouts in the 1930s. In that same decade, extraordinary Cuban Kid Chocolate was so fast with his fists. Two-time world bantamweight champion, Manuel Ortiz of California dominated the 1940s.

In the 1950s and 60s, a small wave of great fighters came into the scene: Kid Gavilan (Cuba), who fought and entertained us with his trademark bolo punch in American TV audiences at least 34 times. Dazzling Puerto Rican Carlos Ortiz was a lightweight dandy. Miami based Cuban, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, made headlines fighting the great Emile Griffith of U.S. Virgin Islands 4 times. He beat a great handful of welterweight and middleweight contenders, even though his title reign was short. Fast handed Panamanian Ismael Laguna was a beautiful boxer and twice lightweight king. Pascual Perez of Argentina was a terror at flyweight even though he turned pro at 26 after winning a gold medal in the 1948 Olympic games in London. He held the flyweight crown for 6 years. Eder Jofre of Brazil was his country's first world champion. And he was a bad ass! And of course, we cannot forget El Zurdo de Oro, the great Mexican Vicente Saldivar! An unbeatable featherweight champion in the 1960s that gave us many thrills. And who did he beat to become champ? Cuban warrior Sugar Ramos.

All could have ended there for Latin boxing, but not. The best was yet to come. Since 1969, when the great Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles of Cuba via Mexico became the first Latino to win The Ring Fighter of the Year Award, Latin America invaded and dominated the weight classes below heavyweight with flavor, guts, will, skill and flair never seen before or since. From 1969 to about 1982, Latin boxers dominated big! It was the GOLDEN ERA OF THE LATIN INVASION CONNECTION. American boxing below the heavyweights was an afterthought. By 1976, there were only two Americans as world champions: Danny Lopez at featherweight and of course, at heavyweight, the great Muhammad Ali who was making most of the boxing headlines. We saw great champions like Mexicans Ruben Olivares, Miguel Canto, Chucho Castillo, Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez, Carlos Zarate, Pipino Cuevas, and the unforgettable Salvador Sanchez. In Argentina, we had Carlos Monzon, Nicolino Locche and Victor Galindez. Alexis Arguello in Nicaragua. Antonio Cervantes and Rodrigo "Rocky" Valdez in Colombia. Esteban De Jesus, Hector "Macho" Camacho, Edwin "Chapo" Rosario, and of course, Benitez and Gomez in Puerto Rico. Americans Bobby Chacon, Raul Rojas and Carlos Palomino. Eusebio Pedroza of Panama. And of course, his countryman, the incredible Roberto Duran, who was probably boxing's pound per pound best fighter of that time frame.

And after that, in the new millennium, more Latin boxers came, and made much more money. American Oscar De La Hoya of California was boxing's Golden Boy and pay per view top superstar for a decade and a half. Mexican greats like Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales gave us fistic wars between them. Their underrated countryman, Juan Manuel Marquez was also in the mix, and fought the great superstar Manny Pacquiao of the Philippines 4 times! And the little giant Ricardo "Finito" Lopez, is the best strawweight boxer of all times. American flyweight Michael Carbajal of Arizona gave us the attention for the little men. And Puerto Rico's superstar Felix "Tito" Trinidad was the island's most beloved fighter ever. This is the history of Latin American boxing. Huge contributions these boxers made to the history of the sport. These to me, are the top 25 best boxers that Latin America had offered so far:

1. Roberto Duran (Panama)
2. Carlos Monzon (Argentina)
3. Julio Cesar Chavez (Mexico)
4. Eder Jofre (Brazil)
5. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)
6. Pascual Perez (Argentina)
7. Panama Al Brown (Panama)
8. Kid Gavilan (Panama)
9. Kid Chocolate (Cuba)
10. Salvador Sanchez (Mexico)
11. Ruben Olivares (Mexico)
12. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (Cuba)
13. Wilfredo Gomez (Puerto Rico)
14. Carlos Zarate (Mexico)
15. Carlos Ortiz (Puerto Rico)
16. Manuel Ortiz (USA)
17. Juan Manuel Marquez (Mexico)
18. Wilfred Benitez (Puerto Rico)
19. Luis Manuel Rodriguez (Cuba)
20. Miguel Canto (Mexico)
21. Marco Antonio Barrera (Mexico)
22. Erik "El Terrible" Morales (Mexico)
23. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez (Mexico)
24. Eusebio Pedroza (Panama)
25. Vicente Saldivar (Mexico)

Honorary mention:
Oscar De La Hoya (USA)
Felix "Tito" Trinidad (Puerto Rico)
Ismael Laguna (Panama)
Hector. "Macho" Camacho (Puerto Rico)
Victor Galindez (Argentina)
Antonio Cervantes (Colombia)
Edwin " Chapo" Rosario (Puerto Rico)
Baby Arizmendy (Mexico)
Pipino Cuevas (Mexico)
Carlos Palomino (USA)
Wilfredo Vazquez (Puerto Rico)
Esteban Dejesus (Puerto Rico)
Bobby Chacon (USA)
Michael Carbajal (USA)
Humberto "Chiquita" Gonzalez (Mexico)
Sugar Ramos (Cuba)

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Arizmendi won more fights, against better fighters.

And Pascual Perez was most successful and consistent. Eleven title defenses in 6 years as champion. Only 7 losses in 92 fights.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Arizmendi won more fights, against better fighters.

And Pascual Perez was most successful and consistent. Eleven title defenses in 6 years as champion. Only 7 losses in 92 fights.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Arizmendi won more fights, against better fighters.

And Pascual Perez was most successful and consistent. Eleven title defenses in 6 years as champion. Only 7 losses in 92 fights.

Felix Trinidad was world champion for 6 years and had 15 title defenses. Then he moved up and was champion in two more divisions. He only lost 3 of 45 fights. By your logic, he was more successful and consistent than Roberto Duran. Obviously better and more consistent than Perez.

Kalan wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Arizmendi won more fights, against better fighters.

And Pascual Perez was most successful and consistent. Eleven title defenses in 6 years as champion. Only 7 losses in 92 fights.

Elmersalsa... Pascual Perez sucked banapple gas... Look who many guys he fought making their pro debut and how many guys with zero wins or horrible records he fought.. He was worse than Sean O'Grady as a record padder.. O'Grady was a joke and Perez was worse.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: And Pascual Perez was most successful and consistent. Eleven title defenses in 6 years as champion. Only 7 losses in 92 fights.

Felix Trinidad was world champion for 6 years and had 15 title defenses. Then he moved up and was champion in two more divisions. He only lost 3 of 45 fights. By your logic, he was more successful and consistent than Roberto Duran. Obviously better and more consistent than Perez.

Pascual Perez won more fights, had much more winning streaks than that overrated Felix "Tito" Trinidad. Every time Tito got his ass whupped, he retired like a big chump. Pascual kept fighting and winning lots of fights until his retirement.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Felix Trinidad was world champion for 6 years and had 15 title defenses. Then he moved up and was champion in two more divisions. He only lost 3 of 45 fights. By your logic, he was more successful and consistent than Roberto Duran. Obviously better and more consistent than Perez.

Pascual Perez won more fights, had much more winning streaks than that overrated Felix "Tito" Trinidad. Every time Tito got his ass whupped, he retired like a big chump. Pascual kept fighting and winning lots of fights until his retirement.

Ahhh, when the title defenses no longer matter you go to the ole "he won more fights". Baby arizmendi won more fights than Perez against much better competition yet Perez rates over him for less losses and more title defenses. It's brutal that you have the audacity to ask why your methodology is laughable. At least you can read your own nonsense if you're not too stubborn. That's why your lists suck. Not that you have no knowledge, you have massive bias and no consistency in your methods.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

It seems to me that you don't have no comeback. A laughing pic means that you ain't got any. Got some more facts? I got some more between the two fighters.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

It seems to me that you don't have no comeback. A laughing pic means that you ain't got any. Got some more facts? I got some more between the two fighters.

Like I said, you change your criteria to suit your argument from the same list. I'm not going around in circles with a stone. Arizmendi most certainly won a world title(not that it should matter). I didn't even delve into guys like Chalky Wright and draws with the likes of Ambers.Beating much better boxers is a pretty big criteria for me. Especially when we're discussing a guy almost in your top 5 with an inferior resume to a guy off the list. Vintage Elmer. You're a clown, but you definitely love Boxing.