BoxRec

There are only a handful of legit opponents, when two of them piss dirty it's not your fault. Not only did Vitali not hear any shit for his shitty opposition, he got to ride his brothers coattails as if their resumes were one. Wlad definitely fought everyone he should have, Vitali didn't.

Wilder isn't even close to being the worst. He's probably better than Valuev who held a belt for some time. Cgarles Martin must be up there. Stiverne who Wilder won the title from is worse.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:There are only a handful of legit opponents, when two of them piss dirty it's not your fault. Not only did Vitali not hear any poo for his shitty opposition, he got to ride his brothers coattails as if their resumes were one. Wlad definitely fought everyone he should have, Vitali didn't.

Stiverne pissed dirty as HELL... Povetkin and Ortiz never pissed dirty for Wilder... There was never any proof they took any PEDs.

Vitali knocked the shiit out of Heavyweights who beat up and stopped his bro Wladimir... Wladimir beat the crap out of little tyke Chris Byrd... Which is the same thing Vitali would have done in spades if he were 100% physically... Unfortunately he suffered a complete separation of his rotator cuff assembly when he had an insurmountable lead on the scorecards... One fight isn't worth risking your career over... He fought until he was 41 with a 4-year-hiatus.

Rahman beat the shit out of more fighters that beat wlad than vitali did.

Kalan wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:There are only a handful of legit opponents, when two of them piss dirty it's not your fault. Not only did Vitali not hear any poo for his shitty opposition, he got to ride his brothers coattails as if their resumes were one. Wlad definitely fought everyone he should have, Vitali didn't.

Stiverne pissed dirty as HELL... Povetkin and Ortiz never pissed dirty for Wilder... There was never any proof they took any PEDs.

Vitali knocked the shiit out of Heavyweights who beat up and stopped his bro Wladimir... Wladimir beat the crap out of little tyke Chris Byrd... Which is the same thing Vitali would have done in spades if he were 100% physically... Unfortunately he suffered a complete separation of his rotator cuff assembly when he had an insurmountable lead on the scorecards... One fight isn't worth risking your career over... He fought until he was 41 with a 4-year-hiatus.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rahman beat the poo out of more fighters that beat wlad than vitali did.

wasnt it the same. sandrrs and purrity.

jamamb wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rahman beat the poo out of more fighters that beat wlad than vitali did.

wasnt it the same. sandrrs and purrity.

I didn't know Vitali fought Purrity. I stand corrected. Still have to give Rahman a slight edge since Vitali retired instead of facing him and never even fought him when rock was shot when he came back. *yes, sarcasm aimed at the idiots who chastise Lennox for retiring*. That being said, Vitali never beat the quality of Rahman. Why didn't/don't people hate on him like they do Wilder?

Vitali will be in the HOF for doing slightly more than Wilder has,

Ricky_ wrote:Wilder isn't even close to being the worst. He's probably better than Valuev who held a belt for some time. Cgarles Martin must be up there. Stiverne who Wilder won the title from is worse.

i for one have not seen a heavy weight
title holder for now seven title fights in
a row facing very weak opposition.

and i never thought i would defend
nikolai valuev in any way, but really?
you look at his title fights and conclude
these opponents are worse than wilder's?

well, respectfully, i could not disagree
more. and to all others who defend wilder,
when did your change of mind happen?
it felt like only a few years back there was
pretty much unanimous consent on the
board (except for two or three fourteen
year olds) that wilder should step it up.
well, you obviously think that happened
if you defend him now. which fight did
it? molina? szpilka? washington?

look up how many combined title fights
wilder's title opponents had. then do the
same with valuev, viali, wlad or whomever.
deontay's management team did the old
game of going through the list of weak
opponents with few losses. that's it. guess
what, peter mckneeley had a great record
too before mike tyson.

Grailer wrote:Wilder fights Bermane Stiverne again who only had 1 fight since that loss and is listed as inactive!

Bermane Stiverne Is probably the best fighter on Wilders list of opponents.

Wilder having had 38 bouts has never fought anyone in the box recs top 15 .

Is he really the worst heavyweight champion ever?

At first I refused to even respond to this ridiculous question but its been around so long I couldnt resist. This pathetic topic thread may be THE worst BoxRec topic thread EVER!!

man wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Wilder isn't even close to being the worst. He's probably better than Valuev who held a belt for some time. Cgarles Martin must be up there. Stiverne who Wilder won the title from is worse.

i for one have not seen a heavy weight
title holder for now seven title fights in
a row facing very weak opposition.

and i never thought i would defend
nikolai valuev in any way, but really?
you look at his title fights and conclude
these opponents are worse than wilder's?

well, respectfully, i could not disagree
more. and to all others who defend wilder,
when did your change of mind happen?
it felt like only a few years back there was
pretty much unanimous consent on the
board (except for two or three fourteen
year olds) that wilder should step it up.
well, you obviously think that happened
if you defend him now. which fight did
it? molina? szpilka? washington?

look up how many combined title fights
wilder's title opponents had. then do the
same with valuev, viali, wlad or whomever.
deontay's management team did the old
game of going through the list of weak
opponents with few losses. that's it. guess
what, peter mckneeley had a great record
too before mike tyson.

The question in the title doesn't concern resumè.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jamamb wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rahman beat the poo out of more fighters that beat wlad than vitali did.

wasnt it the same. sandrrs and purrity.

I didn't know Vitali fought Purrity. I stand corrected. Still have to give Rahman a slight edge since Vitali retired instead of facing him and never even fought him when rock was shot when he came back. *yes, sarcasm aimed at the idiots who chastise Lennox for retiring*. That being said, Vitali never beat the quality of Rahman. Why didn't/don't people hate on him like they do Wilder?

In defeat to Lennox Lewis Vitali showed a lot more than we’ve seen from wilder.

I dont hate wilder, it’s exaggerated the amount of crap he gets, but while Vitali has a razor thin record, the fight with Lewis puts him well clear of wilder.

Ossyrules wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jamamb wrote:
wasnt it the same. sandrrs and purrity.

I didn't know Vitali fought Purrity. I stand corrected. Still have to give Rahman a slight edge since Vitali retired instead of facing him and never even fought him when rock was shot when he came back. *yes, sarcasm aimed at the idiots who chastise Lennox for retiring*. That being said, Vitali never beat the quality of Rahman. Why didn't/don't people hate on him like they do Wilder?

In defeat to Lennox Lewis Vitali showed a lot more than we’ve seen from wilder.

I dont hate wilder, it’s exaggerated the amount of crap he gets, but while Vitali has a razor thin record, the fight with Lewis puts him well clear of wilder.

No question, but it isn't a big hurdle to climb.

man wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:The Klitschkos fought marginally better opponents than Wilder in their first 2-3 years. But they should have, better amateur pedigree as I said.

Virtually every prospect ducks somebody in the first few years so I find the claim dubious that "nobody ever claimed that
either k - especially wladimir - ducked anyone at any point in time. "

So I'll insert mostly before the word stumblebums.

who cares for the first two years
in a fighters life? is this what you
are talking about? if so, why even
mention it if not for somehow
excusing wilder's obviously terrible
record.

but know what? here is another fact.
both ks and wilder fought not-great
boxers in their very first fights. so
here we are, what's the big difference?

i do understand why boxers do what
wilder does, i do not understand how
people, who do not profit from it, can
defend it.

I agree: who cares regarding the first couple years and I have stated that here, somewhere. I mention it because the diehards who point their finger at Wilder and look away when virtually everyone else has done the same thing. Wilder doesn't have a terrible record. Now that was stupid, but I think you know that.

Regarding your second paragraph, exactly. What is the difference?

As a fan, I wanted Wilder to fight better fighters than he fought from about 2012 on. As a fan, I also wanted Foreman to fight Tony Tucker and Tim Witherspoon in his comeback, but he didn't.

I don't defend Wilder per se, I merely point out the hypocrisy of only pointing out Wilder while giving others a free ride. A particular poster here lambasts Wilder on almost every post while championing Chinese HWs who are fighting opponents that make Wilder's look like household names.

Tony1244 wrote:As a fan, I also wanted Foreman to fight Tony Tucker and Tim Witherspoon in his comeback, but he didn't.

Tim Witherspoon tasted defeat against Everett Martin in 1992 and then had a two year layoff shortly afterwards, Foreman had already absolutely dominated the very same opponent three years prior.

Tony Tucker endured a lengthy layoff after being defeated by Mike Tyson in 1987, before making a ring return a fortnight before the end of 1989.

At this point in time, Foreman was facing vastly superior fighters before failing in his first comeback world title shot against Evander Holyfield early in 1991.

Tucker then suffered another defeat in 1993 at a time when Foreman engaged in a string of bouts against former/current/future world champions like Tommy Morrison, Michael Moorer and Axel Schulz.

Over a ten month period, starting in 1995, Tucker suffered three consecutive defeats, at a time when Foreman was persistently sharing the ring against vastly superior and higher ranked fighters.

I don’t believe that bouts between Foreman and the likes of Tucker and Witherspoon were ever considered realistic by anyone within the boxing fraternity for the very reasons I’ve listed.

Enlightened-One wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:As a fan, I also wanted Foreman to fight Tony Tucker and Tim Witherspoon in his comeback, but he didn't.

Tim Witherspoon tasted defeat against Everett Martin in 1992 and then had a two year layoff shortly afterwards, Foreman had already absolutely dominated the very same opponent three years prior.

Tony Tucker endured a lengthy layoff after being defeated by Mike Tyson in 1987, before making a ring return a fortnight before the end of 1989.

At this point in time, Foreman was facing vastly superior fighters before failing in his first comeback world title shot against Evander Holyfield early in 1991.

Tucker then suffered another defeat in 1993 at a time when Foreman engaged in a string of bouts against former/current/future world champions like Tommy Morrison, Michael Moorer and Axel Schulz.

Over a ten month period, starting in 1995, Tucker suffered three consecutive defeats, at a time when Foreman was persistently sharing the ring against vastly superior and higher ranked fighters.

I'd have to go back and look up all these time lines but GF was openly admitting he was ducking people. His honesty was part of his charm. Witherspoon may have taken GF more seriously than he did Martin. Those guys I mentioned along with Lennox Lewis, Bowe and others were not part of George Foreman's game plan.

Point being fighters duck other fighters because its in their own best interest. As a fan I wish that didn't happen. So many people point their finger at Wilder and then put their finger down while discussing other fighters. That's my point.

Ricky_ wrote:

man wrote:look up how many combined title fights
wilder's title opponents had. then do the
same with valuev, viali, wlad or whomever.
deontay's management team did the old
game of going through the list of weak
opponents with few losses. that's it. guess
what, peter mckneeley had a great record
too before mike tyson.

The question in the title doesn't concern resumè.

could not agree more. this line of
the thread happened because i was
replying to a post that did make a
claim about the quality of his resume.

i for one believe he has terrific talent.
rough - especially keeping balance and
composure don't seem his strong assets,
but these are offset by power.

and of course he is not the worst title
holder in history.

Tony1244 wrote:So many people point their finger at Wilder and then put their finger down while discussing other fighters. That's my point.

but you do miss the real point. george
foreman had shown already at age 24
that he would fight everyone everywhere
(literally). the criticism of wilder, at least
mine, is that he has not done so. not for
a single fight. instead his match making
disappoints everyone every time. his only
credits are fights against two 38 year olds,
that actually didn't happen.

Tony1244 wrote:As a fan, I wanted Wilder to fight better fighters than he fought from about 2012 on. As a fan, I also wanted Foreman to fight Tony Tucker and Tim Witherspoon in his comeback, but he didn't.

be honest, these situations do not
really resemble each other, right?

man wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:So many people point their finger at Wilder and then put their finger down while discussing other fighters. That's my point.

but you do miss the real point. george
foreman had shown already at age 24
that he would fight everyone everywhere
(literally). the criticism of wilder, at least
mine, is that he has not done so. not for
a single fight. instead his match making
disappoints everyone every time. his only
credits are fights against two 38 year olds,
that actually didn't happen.

No, you miss the real point ignoring all the BS bias against Wilder.

Foreman started boxing much earlier than Wilder and if you think GF wasn't ducking people, well you haven't listened to GF admiting that he had. He said he ducked Quarry. Who did Forman fight before he fought Frazier? The great Terry Sorrell and a South American fighter who had a weaker right hand than an amputee.

Intelligent fight fans realize the Povetkin and Ortiz fallouts were not his fault. If those PED users hadn't cheated, no one would be complaining anymore about Deontay ducking anyone.

Tony1244 wrote:

man wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:So many people point their finger at Wilder and then put their finger down while discussing other fighters. That's my point.

but you do miss the real point. george
foreman had shown already at age 24
that he would fight everyone everywhere
(literally). the criticism of wilder, at least
mine, is that he has not done so. not for
a single fight. instead his match making
disappoints everyone every time. his only
credits are fights against two 38 year olds,
that actually didn't happen.

No, you miss the real point ignoring all the BS bias against Wilder.

Foreman started boxing much earlier than Wilder and if you think GF wasn't ducking people, well you haven't listened to GF admiting that he had. He said he ducked Quarry. Who did Forman fight before he fought Frazier?

including the up and coming stiverne fight
wilder stands at 7 title fights, george foreman
had 10. guess the total number of title fights
their opponents had on their record when they
met with deontay, respectively george in the ring?

the opponents of deontay wilder had a combined
THREE title fights before they stepped in the ring
with him. guess what that number is for george
foreman? FIFTY plus.

sorry, comparing deontay wilder to george foreman
of all people, who fought several ATGs, including the
GOAT is outright ... silly.

man wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

man wrote: but you do miss the real point. george
foreman had shown already at age 24
that he would fight everyone everywhere
(literally). the criticism of wilder, at least
mine, is that he has not done so. not for
a single fight. instead his match making
disappoints everyone every time. his only
credits are fights against two 38 year olds,
that actually didn't happen.

No, you miss the real point ignoring all the BS bias against Wilder.

Foreman started boxing much earlier than Wilder and if you think GF wasn't ducking people, well you haven't listened to GF admiting that he had. He said he ducked Quarry. Who did Forman fight before he fought Frazier?

including the up and coming stiverne fight
wilder stands at 7 title fights, george foreman
had 10. guess the total number of title fights
their opponents had on their record when they
met with deontay, respectively george in the ring?

the opponents of deontay wilder had a combined
THREE title fights before they stepped in the ring
with him. guess what that number is for george
foreman? FIFTY plus.

sorry, comparing deontay wilder to george foreman
of all people, who fought several ATGs, including the
GOAT is outright ... silly.

I was a MUCH bigger fan of George Foreman than I ever have been of Deontay Wilder. I do sometimes play devil's advocate.

Badhusker wrote:

Kalan wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:There are only a handful of legit opponents, when two of them piss dirty it's not your fault. Not only did Vitali not hear any poo for his shitty opposition, he got to ride his brothers coattails as if their resumes were one. Wlad definitely fought everyone he should have, Vitali didn't.

Stiverne pissed dirty as HELL... Povetkin and Ortiz never pissed dirty for Wilder... There was never any proof they took any PEDs.

Vitali knocked the shiit out of Heavyweights who beat up and stopped his bro Wladimir... Wladimir beat the crap out of little tyke Chris Byrd... Which is the same thing Vitali would have done in spades if he were 100% physically... Unfortunately he suffered a complete separation of his rotator cuff assembly when he had an insurmountable lead on the scorecards... One fight isn't worth risking your career over... He fought until he was 41 with a 4-year-hiatus.

Yes Badhusker, you can act like an absolute retard, but in reality the lab that claimed Povetkin did something wrong actually got suspended itself, Povetkin is innocent, Ortiz took his medicins for years on doctors advice and on discription as Wilder and his team knew beforehand, something that never used to be any problem. It was Wilder who got busted with drugs and it was Stiverne who got busted of using doping life in the act while the same dopinglab that wrongly claimed Povetkin did something wrong, couldn't find anything ever before in Stiverne his body :s!

The battle of the dopers is not interesting at all, nobody cares about that fat bum called Stiverne.

asdfjkl wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

Kalan wrote:
Stiverne pissed dirty as HELL... Povetkin and Ortiz never pissed dirty for Wilder... There was never any proof they took any PEDs.

Vitali knocked the shiit out of Heavyweights who beat up and stopped his bro Wladimir... Wladimir beat the crap out of little tyke Chris Byrd... Which is the same thing Vitali would have done in spades if he were 100% physically... Unfortunately he suffered a complete separation of his rotator cuff assembly when he had an insurmountable lead on the scorecards... One fight isn't worth risking your career over... He fought until he was 41 with a 4-year-hiatus.

Yes Badhusker, you can act like an absolute retard, but in reality the lab that claimed Povetkin did something wrong actually got suspended itself, Povetkin is innocent, Ortiz took his medicins for years on doctors advice and on discription as Wilder and his team knew beforehand, it was Wilder who got busted with drugs and it was Stiverne who got busted of using doping life in the act while the same dopinglab that wrongly claimed Povetkin did something wrong, couldn't find anything ever before in Stiverne his body :s!

Marijuana is not a performance enhancing drug and it likely was someone else's. Of course a boxer's friend or hanger on would never ever smoke pot.

Ortiz wasn't smart enough to list his medications, therefore he is too dumb to even box.

Pedvetkin Guilty.

Ortiz Guilty.

Tony1244 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

Yes Badhusker, you can act like an absolute retard, but in reality the lab that claimed Povetkin did something wrong actually got suspended itself, Povetkin is innocent, Ortiz took his medicins for years on doctors advice and on discription as Wilder and his team knew beforehand, it was Wilder who got busted with drugs and it was Stiverne who got busted of using doping life in the act while the same dopinglab that wrongly claimed Povetkin did something wrong, couldn't find anything ever before in Stiverne his body :s!

Marijuana is not a performance enhancing drug and it likely was someone else's. Of course a boxer's friend or hanger on would never ever smoke pot.

Ortiz wasn't smart enough to list his medications, therefore he is too dumb to even box.

Pedvetkin Guilty.

Ortiz Guilty.

Lol, like Stiverne can speak Russian. The Americans just cowardly abused the fact he doesn't speak English that well and still has to sign loads of papers. Yea, you should blame Arreola indeed.