BoxRec

mickey1975 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:03 The forum has gone down the pan recently. It was a much better version of Wlad. Tyson offset everything he did. Odd for you to think everyone on here is anonymous to me? I have close friends on here, plus guys I've come across in the boxing business.

SteveDow wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:30 I find it hard to believe some people actually fail to give Fury great credit for the way he beat Wlad. He went into his back yard and totally befuddled and bemused him. Beat him at his own game behind the jab. No-one had ever before or since done that to Wlad. The only way he'd been beaten before is being outgunned and overwhelmed, never outboxed. The reason Wlad couldn't get anything off was because he could never get in range due to Fury's movement and was clearly worried about taking any chances.

Compare that to Joshua's display. Yes, it was a cracking fight but Joshua was very very lucky to get through that without being stopped. He was gone in both the 5th and 6th and Wlad just didn't take enough chances to get him out of there. One more shot and it would have been game over.

I think Fury does need to have a couple of warm up fights before getting in with Joshua. Clearly there will be ring rust and against a guy who hits as hard as Joshua you just can't go in there without being at or very near the top of your game. However were the Fury who beat Wlad to fight any version I've seen of AJ, I think that provided Fury gets through the first 3 or 4 rounds the fight is his. He's a miles better boxer, bigger, has a better jab, quicker feet, defensively much better and in my view is stronger mentally. Clearly AJ has a punchers chance but that's about it if they are both at the top of their games.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:03 The forum has gone down the pan recently. It was a much better version of Wlad. Tyson offset everything he did. Odd for you to think everyone on here is anonymous to me? I have close friends on here, plus guys I've come across in the boxing business.

dirk2686 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:38

SteveDow wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:30 I find it hard to believe some people actually fail to give Fury great credit for the way he beat Wlad. He went into his back yard and totally befuddled and bemused him. Beat him at his own game behind the jab. No-one had ever before or since done that to Wlad. The only way he'd been beaten before is being outgunned and overwhelmed, never outboxed. The reason Wlad couldn't get anything off was because he could never get in range due to Fury's movement and was clearly worried about taking any chances.

Compare that to Joshua's display. Yes, it was a cracking fight but Joshua was very very lucky to get through that without being stopped. He was gone in both the 5th and 6th and Wlad just didn't take enough chances to get him out of there. One more shot and it would have been game over.

I think Fury does need to have a couple of warm up fights before getting in with Joshua. Clearly there will be ring rust and against a guy who hits as hard as Joshua you just can't go in there without being at or very near the top of your game. However were the Fury who beat Wlad to fight any version I've seen of AJ, I think that provided Fury gets through the first 3 or 4 rounds the fight is his. He's a miles better boxer, bigger, has a better jab, quicker feet, defensively much better and in my view is stronger mentally. Clearly AJ has a punchers chance but that's about it if they are both at the top of their games.

The reason I tend to think it was more a bad night by Wlad than a great night by Fury was because Fury had been a guy who'd struggled with bang average fighters during his career, including early (probably lost against McDermott) and later (dropped and given a joke stoppage v Pajkic and in very real bother having been dropped against Cunningham.) He did well against Chisora but he's a guy who has essentially lost every time he's made a serious step up, and lost pretty clearly.

Put it this way - a guy who was able to genuinely befuddle a switched on Wlad should be utterly toying with Cunningham and Pajkic - not losing multiple rounds and getting sat on his arse. Fury executed a gameplan well enough, but it was a terrible fight.

SteveDow wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:43Fury was very green in those fights you mention though, particularly the McDermott fight where he'd been a pro for less than a year when he had the fight. He'd improved massively by the time he fought Wlad. Was a totally different fighter. When he fought McDermott, Pajkic and Cunningham he was very gung-ho and open defensively. By the Wlad fight he was unrecognisable when compared with the fighter he was years before. His career is a bit similar to Wlad's in that both started out as attacking fighters who were fairly open defensively and then matured into more defensive fighters who utilise their size and reach much more. I think AJ would have all kinds of problems landing clean on Fury if he can get back to his best. AJ is used to being the bigger man. He's have quite considerable size disadvantages against Fury and that would sap his stamina unless he can get him out of there early.

dirk2686 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:47

SteveDow wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:43Fury was very green in those fights you mention though, particularly the McDermott fight where he'd been a pro for less than a year when he had the fight. He'd improved massively by the time he fought Wlad. Was a totally different fighter. When he fought McDermott, Pajkic and Cunningham he was very gung-ho and open defensively. By the Wlad fight he was unrecognisable when compared with the fighter he was years before. His career is a bit similar to Wlad's in that both started out as attacking fighters who were fairly open defensively and then matured into more defensive fighters who utilise their size and reach much more. I think AJ would have all kinds of problems landing clean on Fury if he can get back to his best. AJ is used to being the bigger man. He's have quite considerable size disadvantages against Fury and that would sap his stamina unless he can get him out of there early.

To be fair he only had three fights between Cunningham and Wlad - one of which he looked about five stone overweight in in the case of fighting Joey Abell.

It's hard to tell if he's changed that much because he's never allowed us to see whether the Wlad fight was indeed a case of him suddenly becoming an absolutely elite fighter or a dud night for his opponent. His tactics worked but what else was he going to do?

mickey1975 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:51 So an undefeated champion of the world has lost clearly every time he steps up? Get to bed Dirk.... Cunningham was left unconscious, McDermott was a great learning fight who he knocked out in an immediate rematch and was a baby at the time.....

dirk2686 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:00

mickey1975 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:51 So an undefeated champion of the world has lost clearly every time he steps up? Get to bed Dirk.... Cunningham was left unconscious, McDermott was a great learning fight who he knocked out in an immediate rematch and was a baby at the time.....

I was talking about Chisora, which was plainly obvious.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:03

dirk2686 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:00

mickey1975 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:51 So an undefeated champion of the world has lost clearly every time he steps up? Get to bed Dirk.... Cunningham was left unconscious, McDermott was a great learning fight who he knocked out in an immediate rematch and was a baby at the time.....

I was talking about Chisora, which was plainly obvious.

Have you been on the vodka? Chisora lost fair and square the first time and shown up the second?

SteveDow wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:55He clearly was never going to get into a fire fight with Klitschko as he'd have then probably been knocked out given Klitschko's huge power. The same way that he won't if he fights Joshua. Styles make fights and it's about adapting your style to the opponent in question. What I was very impressed with was how he was able to beat an elite defensive, technical fighter like Klitschko at his own game and clearly outpoint him away from home. That takes great skill physically but also huge mental strength. I'm not sure Joshua would have beaten Wlad had they fought in Germany last year rather than Wembley with the crowd against him. Regardless, I just think people need to give credit where credit is due and admit that it was a great display from Fury. Yes, it was a dull fight but how many of the Mayweather, Hopkins and Ward fights have been dull over the years yet we still give them credit for beating the elite in their divisions.

banjo wrote: ↑04 Jan 2018, 14:17

mickey1975 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2018, 14:13

banjo wrote: ↑04 Jan 2018, 14:01

Sorry the homophobe needs to get himself ranked

No, it's wrong. If I said all he needs to do is smash that n c*unt I'd get banned, and rightly so.

Fury is a white man just like me, he isn't a different race to me.

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:10

banjo wrote: ↑04 Jan 2018, 14:17

mickey1975 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2018, 14:13

No, it's wrong. If I said all he needs to do is smash that n c*unt I'd get banned, and rightly so.

Fury is a white man just like me, he isn't a different race to me.

Not read the rest of this thread but you're wrong - it was proven in a court of law that Gypsy was a race, and that abuse against gypsies was classed as racist.

banjo wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:11

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:10

banjo wrote: ↑04 Jan 2018, 14:17

Fury is a white man just like me, he isn't a different race to me.

Not read the rest of this thread but you're wrong - it was proven in a court of law that Gypsy was a race, and that abuse against gypsies was classed as racist.

Maybe but he's no darker than me.

dirk2686 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:07

SteveDow wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 09:55He clearly was never going to get into a fire fight with Klitschko as he'd have then probably been knocked out given Klitschko's huge power. The same way that he won't if he fights Joshua. Styles make fights and it's about adapting your style to the opponent in question. What I was very impressed with was how he was able to beat an elite defensive, technical fighter like Klitschko at his own game and clearly outpoint him away from home. That takes great skill physically but also huge mental strength. I'm not sure Joshua would have beaten Wlad had they fought in Germany last year rather than Wembley with the crowd against him. Regardless, I just think people need to give credit where credit is due and admit that it was a great display from Fury. Yes, it was a dull fight but how many of the Mayweather, Hopkins and Ward fights have been dull over the years yet we still give them credit for beating the elite in their divisions.

He gets plenty of credit for doing what he had to do and winning in a big upset - that's fine. But it's very revisionist to say it was some one-sided masterclass; to repeat some points which have been made, Tyson was asking the BBC Five Live reporters if he'd won after the bell - Richie Woodhall thought he had by a couple and Mike Costello was saying too close to call with a worry that the point taken away from him may prove costly. These aren't the reactions when we've seen a fight like Calzaghe Lacy. Bookies had Wlad the favourite after the final bell - a nod towards hometown referees certainly, but not in the sense that they were prepared to overturn what was obviously a 120-108 blowout. Fury landed less than three more punches per round than Wlad after all - he was the better man, but only insofar as he was the least worse on the night.

I doubt people will ever agree on this. The longer the fight drifts into memory the more some decide to view it as a forgotten classic. If Fury comes back and is destroyed it'll never be 'the' Tyson Fury; the issue being did he ever really exist?

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:20

banjo wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:11

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:10
Not read the rest of this thread but you're wrong - it was proven in a court of law that Gypsy was a race, and that abuse against gypsies was classed as racist.

Maybe but he's no darker than me.

What the hell has that got to do with it?

There are millions, if not billions, of people on planet earth with skin exactly the same shade as yours and I'd suggest there are probably 50 nationalities amongst those people.

Sklar wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:22 Maybe Fury should look for a Joshua fight straight out of the traps.

He's a boring but highly effective boxer with the best gob in the business. Two years plus out and the casual may well have forgotton about the boring bit. Cash in before they are reminded?

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:20What the hell has that got to do with it?

There are millions, if not billions, of people on planet earth with skin exactly the same shade as yours and I'd suggest there are probably 50 nationalities amongst those people.

SteveDow wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:12 I'm not saying it was a masterclass and a complete schooling but in my view he won the fight by 3 or 4 rounds (reflected pretty much on the scorecards) and that's a huge achievement against a guy who most thought was invincible at the time. I certainly expected Klitschko to win the fight and from memory had a good few quid on him doing so so I was both surprised and very impressed with Fury's display which I and many others never saw coming.

dirk2686 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:37

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:20What the hell has that got to do with it?

There are millions, if not billions, of people on planet earth with skin exactly the same shade as yours and I'd suggest there are probably 50 nationalities amongst those people.

Race and nationality are different things surely?

Chippo wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:26

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 10:10

banjo wrote: ↑04 Jan 2018, 14:17

Fury is a white man just like me, he isn't a different race to me.

Not read the rest of this thread but you're wrong - it was proven in a court of law that Gypsy was a race, and that abuse against gypsies was classed as racist.

But hang on, there's different types of gypsies. Romani gypsies are ethnically different from caucasian Europeans because they are of Indian heritage. So of course they're a different race.

Fury is an Irish gypsy and not genetically different from 'non-nomadic' Brits, for want of a better description, as far as I'm aware.

Can you provide this court verdict showing that all gypsies are 'a race', even though there are ethnic differences between Irish and Romani gypsies?