BoxRec

KiwiRider wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 16:26 One decent opponent and we will not be talking about Charles Martin anymore.

I'm surprised that anyone is missing him.

I never realised how 'good' he was before he took the money & ran against Joshua, because I didn't think he pulled up many trees before he fought Joshua & his performance against Anthony just summed up how woeful he really was.

before the aj fight martin was favoured vs glazkov and breazeale, he wasnt seen as a joke until the funny ending vs glazkov and the limp aj showing where he just turned up for his big arse pay day

he didnt look nearly as bad as the awful fighter hes now made out to be. he was a good amateur too, winning a major usa national title

but somehow hes absolutely horrifically awful while a guy like kownacki gets hyped

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 17:44 before the aj fight martin was favoured vs glazkov and breazeale, he wasnt seen as a joke until the funny ending vs glazkov and the limp aj showing where he just turned up for his big arse pay day

he didnt look nearly as bad as the awful fighter hes now made out to be. he was a good amateur too, winning a major usa national title

but somehow hes absolutely horrifically awful while a guy like kownacki gets hyped

Neither Breazeale nor Glazkov were respected names at the time. Breazeale went on to get respect after he beat Ugonoh, but before that, he really wasn't though of highly. Breazeale was losing to Mansour and should've had a loss to Kassi before he fought Joshua.

Martin was always seen as a running joke, especially with his "I walk this earth like a god" statement.

up till glazkov he wasnt a joke at all. and he was actually supposed to fight a 16-0 breazeale and like i said was favoured,

he did look silly for his big talk, and imo thats part of why hes considered a joke

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 21:00 he said that right before fighting aj . up till glazkov he wasnt a joke at all.

Well, he was pretty unknown up until the Glazkov fight. Then everyone called it a joke that either of these guys fought for a title that was unfairly stripped from Fury. The way Martin won the fight was just the icing on the cake. Not sure how you think he was a joke only after signing to fight Joshua. He was a joke with the way he won the vacant title.

it was a funny way to win the title but i agreed with bookies that he shouldve been favourite and i thought he looked to be getting the better of it, esp in the 3rd before the injury

.its not like he was a seriously impressive talent, but i think he was legit lower top 12 or so. i think he was no worse then the likes of molina, kownacki, szpilka, and wach

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 21:13 it was a funny way to win the title but i agreed with bookies that he shouldve been favourite and i thought he looked to be getting the better of it, esp in the 3rd before the injury

.its not like he was a seriously impressive talent, but i think he was legit lower top 12 or so. i think he was no worse then the likes of molina, kownacki, szpilka, and wach

Glazkov has always looked like garbage. Could be argued that he had 3 losses going into the Martin fight.

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 17:44 before the aj fight martin was favoured vs glazkov and breazeale, he wasnt seen as a joke until the funny ending vs glazkov and the limp aj showing where he just turned up for his big arse pay day

No matter how many times you say this, anyone who has seen Martin fight knows he's always been a "joke". He has terrible technique, picks his feet up when he throws, has no balance, etc etc etc

The fight against Glazkov was panned everywhere I remember as being between a guy who should've lost to Derrick Rossy and a guy who had a padded record and closed his eyes when he threw punches standing on one leg. Maybe beating Tyyab Beale makes him a legend to some, but I guess you can count me out of that group and include me in the one that never considered him any more than he was; a pretty powerful big guy with a manufactured record.

Someone please point me to these comments prior to the joshua fight easy to say he's a nobody now.

world ranked wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 22:10 Someone please point me to these comments prior to the joshua fight easy to say he's a nobody now.

From January 16th 2016:
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=197446

punchoutsb wrote: ↑16 Jan 2016, 23:33 "Prince" Charles has now become the worst title holder in Heavyweight history.

This is the weakest group of champions in the history of the sports big men, and the only time I can think of where the top contenders are far and away better than every one of the champions.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑16 Jan 2016, 23:51

Tanzio wrote: Neither of us know enough to have an opinion on how good he is or will become. If nothing else, his aggression caused the injury.

True. BUT: He looked slow, overweight, picked his feet up when he threw a couple times, and seemed reckless (which he knew he could get away with against Glazkov). On paper he's the worst titlist ever. Watching the "fight" did nothing to dispel that.

I'd be making this same post about Glazkov had he won. This is the worst group of titlists ever, despite the contenders and prospects having more talent in this division than we've had for a while.

ya, ppl started shitting on him because they were made how glazkov ended, but it wasnt nearly so negative before. the narrative shifted big time

just some comments

respected poster armageto

I like Martin by stoppage here. He might be raw, but I see potential in him. I don't see how anyone thinks Glaskov is in reality undefeated. If you thought he won all of the Scott, Rossy, and USS fights, I'm not sure what your scoring criteria is. Even in the Adamek fight (Which I thought the scores were closer), he appeared out of gas near the end of the fight with Adamek getting back into the contest.

I'm not suggesting that Martin has faced the greatest of opponents, but Flores, Hernandez, and Thompson were all undefeated when he fought them. He stopped a durable Dawjeko. He stopped a tough competitor Love. He has good size, power and a better skill set than some people are giving him credit for. I talked to one of his opponents in what he thought of him and he told me "Very technical good skills. Ok puncher, moves well, great reach".

I'll go Martin KO 7.

respected poster the beast

It's really interesting to see how Glazkov vs Martin will go.


Martin has developed a pressuring style with a very lengthy jab in his recent fights...

He has even used the blinding jab in recent bouts.

That straight carries good pop

Martin is a decent finisher too

If Martin plays it safe behind that jab, it will be hard for a straight punch flurry type of fighter like Glazkov to negate the reach and movement from Martin. Glazkov will have to deal with big power shots too.

respected poster lefty

I quite like Martin. He's a bit raw due to taking up boxing late but he's got a pretty decent boxing brain and he's definietly got power to some degree atleast. That combined with the fact I think Glazkov is distinctly average makes it a pretty interesting fight IMO.

respected pugilisticprofessor

He was the only guy to ever stop Joey, not a easy feat, also has some good wins, Martin has been on my radar for some time, knew he would be a champ

and bits from other ppl

Martin appears to have excellent potential.

I think someone on the level of Rossy, Wach, Oquendo, Ortiz, Takam, Ustinov, or Scott would be the logical next step up for him.

And then, if he does well, a top 10 opponent like Jennings.

I think he'd (rossy) be a great test & measuring stick for Martin. A bridge between Martin as an excellent prospect & Martin as a contender. With the kind of performance that I think Martin would put on against Rossy, I believe that it would put him on the map.

With his destructive, southpaw style, skill set & power, I think Martin would win impressively & inside the distance.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 22:19

world ranked wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 22:10 Someone please point me to these comments prior to the joshua fight easy to say he's a nobody now.

From January 16th 2016:
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=197446

punchoutsb wrote: ↑16 Jan 2016, 23:33 "Prince" Charles has now become the worst title holder in Heavyweight history.

This is the weakest group of champions in the history of the sports big men, and the only time I can think of where the top contenders are far and away better than every one of the champions.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑16 Jan 2016, 23:51

Tanzio wrote: Neither of us know enough to have an opinion on how good he is or will become. If nothing else, his aggression caused the injury.

True. BUT: He looked slow, overweight, picked his feet up when he threw a couple times, and seemed reckless (which he knew he could get away with against Glazkov). On paper he's the worst titlist ever. Watching the "fight" did nothing to dispel that.

I'd be making this same post about Glazkov had he won. This is the worst group of titlists ever, despite the contenders and prospects having more talent in this division than we've had for a while.

Fair play to you punchoutsb most didnt share your opinion though.

also just from a quick search he was favoured in a poll here to beat breazeale when they were set to fight when both unbeaten

I can't speak to others (who were clearly wrong) but my tune on Martin hasn't changed.

I'd also like to point out that outside of the last two quotes (which were laughable really), all were basically favoring Martin because Glazkov sucks and Martin was "raw" but powerful. Which is a nice way of saying he is technically poor but has a punch...hardly a shimmering review.

all those quotes are positive about martin

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 22:29 ya, ppl started shitting on him because they were made how glazkov ended, but it wasnt nearly so negative before. the narrative shifted big time

just some comments

respected poster armageto

I like Martin by stoppage here. He might be raw, but I see potential in him. I don't see how anyone thinks Glaskov is in reality undefeated. If you thought he won all of the Scott, Rossy, and USS fights, I'm not sure what your scoring criteria is. Even in the Adamek fight (Which I thought the scores were closer), he appeared out of gas near the end of the fight with Adamek getting back into the contest.

I'm not suggesting that Martin has faced the greatest of opponents, but Flores, Hernandez, and Thompson were all undefeated when he fought them. He stopped a durable Dawjeko. He stopped a tough competitor Love. He has good size, power and a better skill set than some people are giving him credit for. I talked to one of his opponents in what he thought of him and he told me "Very technical good skills. Ok puncher, moves well, great reach".

I'll go Martin KO 7.

respected poster the beast

It's really interesting to see how Glazkov vs Martin will go.


Martin has developed a pressuring style with a very lengthy jab in his recent fights...

He has even used the blinding jab in recent bouts.

That straight carries good pop

Martin is a decent finisher too

If Martin plays it safe behind that jab, it will be hard for a straight punch flurry type of fighter like Glazkov to negate the reach and movement from Martin. Glazkov will have to deal with big power shots too.

respected poster lefty

I quite like Martin. He's a bit raw due to taking up boxing late but he's got a pretty decent boxing brain and he's definietly got power to some degree atleast. That combined with the fact I think Glazkov is distinctly average makes it a pretty interesting fight IMO.

respected pugilisticprofessor

He was the only guy to ever stop Joey, not a easy feat, also has some good wins, Martin has been on my radar for some time, knew he would be a champ

and bits from other ppl

Martin appears to have excellent potential.

I think someone on the level of Rossy, Wach, Oquendo, Ortiz, Takam, Ustinov, or Scott would be the logical next step up for him.

And then, if he does well, a top 10 opponent like Jennings.

I think he'd (rossy) be a great test & measuring stick for Martin. A bridge between Martin as an excellent prospect & Martin as a contender. With the kind of performance that I think Martin would put on against Rossy, I believe that it would put him on the map.

With his destructive, southpaw style, skill set & power, I think Martin would win impressively & inside the distance.

People favoring him over Glazkov makes him respected? It's even spelled out in your comments what people thought of Glazkov. The Breazeale thing doesn't mean much either. As I said, Breazeale is a guy that was losing to Mansour and arguably lost to Kassi. These two weren't the best of names at the time, and to say any fighter beats them doesn't mean said fighter is highly respected. You're reaching here.

read closer boys, all of those praise martin in some way

And? They were favoring him over Glazkov (who struggled badly against three no-hopers prior to this fight). Raw. Powerful. I've already mentioned he has power, that's the only reason he's got this far.

Surely all this shimmering praise led to him being favored over AJ, right? Since everyone saw this "destructive skill set" surely he was also favored over AJ on polls here?

I'm reading raw and decent from the names you mentioned. Sounds more like they're talking about any prospect going up against a C-fighter, really.

The other poster talking about destructive power sounds like that one that said Stiverne was a special fighter.

praising someone, thinking there really good, doesnt mean you necessarly think theyll beat everyone

ajs always been at another level, but martin was easily in the range that lower top 10-12 guys are now. lol at ppl saying martins dreadful but then hyping guys like kownacki

Is there a legion of posters here bashing Martin and hyping Kownacki?

I guess I haven't seen that either.

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 22:49 praising someone, thinking there really good, doesnt mean you necessarly think theyll beat everyone

ajs always been at another level, but martin was easily in the range that lower top 10-12 guys are now. lol at ppl saying martins dreadful but then hyping guys like kownacki

What's your beef with Kownacki and who the hell is hyping him? Although, I sure as hell wouldn't favor Martin over Kownacki. At the very least, Kownacki has heart, something Martin doesn't have.

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 22:29 ya, ppl started shitting on him because they were made how glazkov ended, but it wasnt nearly so negative before. the narrative shifted big time

just some comments

respected poster armageto

I like Martin by stoppage here. He might be raw, but I see potential in him. I don't see how anyone thinks Glaskov is in reality undefeated. If you thought he won all of the Scott, Rossy, and USS fights, I'm not sure what your scoring criteria is. Even in the Adamek fight (Which I thought the scores were closer), he appeared out of gas near the end of the fight with Adamek getting back into the contest.

I'm not suggesting that Martin has faced the greatest of opponents, but Flores, Hernandez, and Thompson were all undefeated when he fought them. He stopped a durable Dawjeko. He stopped a tough competitor Love. He has good size, power and a better skill set than some people are giving him credit for. I talked to one of his opponents in what he thought of him and he told me "Very technical good skills. Ok puncher, moves well, great reach".

I'll go Martin KO 7.

respected poster the beast

It's really interesting to see how Glazkov vs Martin will go.


Martin has developed a pressuring style with a very lengthy jab in his recent fights...

He has even used the blinding jab in recent bouts.

That straight carries good pop

Martin is a decent finisher too

If Martin plays it safe behind that jab, it will be hard for a straight punch flurry type of fighter like Glazkov to negate the reach and movement from Martin. Glazkov will have to deal with big power shots too.

respected poster lefty

I quite like Martin. He's a bit raw due to taking up boxing late but he's got a pretty decent boxing brain and he's definietly got power to some degree atleast. That combined with the fact I think Glazkov is distinctly average makes it a pretty interesting fight IMO.

respected pugilisticprofessor

He was the only guy to ever stop Joey, not a easy feat, also has some good wins, Martin has been on my radar for some time, knew he would be a champ

and bits from other ppl

Martin appears to have excellent potential.

I think someone on the level of Rossy, Wach, Oquendo, Ortiz, Takam, Ustinov, or Scott would be the logical next step up for him.

And then, if he does well, a top 10 opponent like Jennings.

I think he'd (rossy) be a great test & measuring stick for Martin. A bridge between Martin as an excellent prospect & Martin as a contender. With the kind of performance that I think Martin would put on against Rossy, I believe that it would put him on the map.

With his destructive, southpaw style, skill set & power, I think Martin would win impressively & inside the distance.

Sorry, but at the time the heavyweight division was pretty much death, I was pretty much the only one watching it and Martin was really a joke. He was a rank 50 or something on boxrec despite 20 wins and all of a sudden he received a world titlefight. Even Glazkov was considered to be a joke. There were rumours that Wilder was going to fight Glazkov for the world title, but Glazkov said no and was going to fight Charles Martin. In the beginning we didn't understand why, but later it turned out that Klitschko hasn't defended that belt for a long time, fought Tyson Fury and unexpectedly lost against Tyson Fury. Fury had to defend this belt within 3 weeks, but only knew that about a week after the Klitschko fight. At the same time wasn't even allowed to fight because he had a rematch contract with Klitschko. Something he gladly signed just a few months earlier because Klitschko was the only guy out there who could generate milions of euro's for his opponents.
This was a big laugh at the time that Fury lost his belt within three weeks while not even beïng in the ring and when Tyson Fury said that he would like it if Hughie Fury was allowed to fight for it instead of Charles Martin they simply refused that. Most people expected Charles Martin to lose big time.
I mean, we are making fun of Wilder for him fighting rank 30 ish guys, but Charles Martin his best opponent ever had a draw against Avery Gibson the fight right after.
Charles Martin was a paper champ and there was a fair losing chance for him against everybody in the top 15 of his belt.
This is also the reason why he fought Anthony Joshua straight away, it was the chance for him to receive a pile of money and leave the sport straight away.

AJ was considered as the future champ at the time and was a massive hype in the UK (like he still is), AJ even doubted weather he should accept it already, he himself at the time had doubts weather he was ready for the world top already, especially right after the Dillian Whyte fight. Just before the Whyte fight AJ actually said that as soon as he has a belt he only wanted to fight the top from that point of, while everybody around said that Wilder should be ashamed of himself for only fighting bums. Saying that he didn't feel ready for the top was also the reason why Wilder all of a sudden offered to fight AJ, because he knew that AJ wouldn't accept it yet. That's also the reason why Wilder can now openly claim he's already after AJ for years, while in reality he didn't want to fight AJ at all. Wilder did the same thing with Hughie Fury while Tyson Fury was scheduled to fight Klitschko. Wilder knew that Hughie was busy around Klitschko, and that his family couldn't fly over to America because of their history, so he also knew that the 20 year old Hughie Fury would never accept it, untill Hughie actually accepted anyway, on 8 weeks notice Hughie was ready! Then Wilder unexpectedly had a problem, there was a fair chance he would lose against a 20 year old. As an excuse Wilder said he didn't want to give Hughie 8 weeks notice and fought Duhaupas (a post delivery mailbox maker from France at the time, who already lost twice) 7,5 weeks later.
Anyway, AJ didn't expect to receive such an easy way to get a belt that early in his carreer and openly prefered to fight a few other fights before this fight.
AJ somehow saw Wilder fighting bum after bum after bum and that made him and Eddy Hearn realise they should simply accept the fight and keep fighting bums after that as well, while carrying a world title.
After he won the title AJ indeed fought two bums, meanwhile Wilder fought even lower rated bums as AJ did.

Then all of a sudden AJ was scheduled to fight Klitschko, something nobody saw coming because nobody knew about Tyson Fury (who had a contract with Klitschko) his problems. Klitschko already called AJ the biggest talent he has seen in well over a decade. Klitschko probably less or more wanted to hand over his legacy to AJ. He even said, if I lose I'll congratz you with your victory, if I win I will help you to come back at top level (or something along those lines). Something he never said to Povetkin, Pulev, Wach, or any of his other opponents.

AJ won in a hell of a fight and Wilder openly said he adviced Klitschko to retire. Somehow Wilder already openly said he hoped hoped Klitschko would retire soon, even before the Tyson Fury fight. Wilder also said he wasn't interested to fight Tyson Fury if Tyson Fury would lose against Klitschko just before Tyson won.
All of these things were seen as a Wilder beïng scared to fight the top.

Over those years AJ didn't just came at Wilder his level, he surpassed him completely within a few years.
Wilder his carreer plan was to avoid top matches as long as possible and stick to that plan as long as possible.
This is the reason why Wilder receives so much hate, despite his troll army actually does a very reasonable job around the internet. He wasn't the real champ back then and everybody knew it. Now he is at the top of his level, he will only get worse from now on and he knows it. Right now he suddenly wants to fight all the top guys, but nobody takes him serious any more. I'm still surprised Wilder refused to fight Whyte actually, Eddy Hearn made a really really fair offer to Wilder, but Wilder asking for an outragious amount of money and even saying that Eddy wanted to buy over Wilder his title makes me wonder what really happened.
Maybe Wilder used something illegal, so couldn't sign any contract at that very moment or something. Either way, asking for 7 milion for a fight agains Whyte really made Wilder look like a scared guy, an idiot, or even both. Even I expected Wilder to win that fight, while I expected Wilder to lose against Ortiz.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 11:03

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑20 Mar 2018, 07:07

punchoutsb wrote: ↑18 Mar 2018, 01:03 The worst HW title holder of all time. Proof that sometimes power is enough to win some fights; he surely didn't have anything else.

I think there's a solid argument for Fury to be the worst HW champion ever. Couldn't even manage one defence.

No there isn't.

I'd like to hear your counter argument.

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2018, 12:59

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑23 Mar 2018, 11:03

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑20 Mar 2018, 07:07

I think there's a solid argument for Fury to be the worst HW champion ever. Couldn't even manage one defence.

No there isn't.

I'd like to hear your counter argument.

He easily beat the consensus undisputed HW in the world. That version of Klitschko was rated p4p #2 after Chocolatito at the time. This wasn't a vacant title against piss-poor opposition like Glazkov.