BoxRec

Kalan wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 19:15

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 18:48 Oliver McCall would probably like to talk to you Kalan. You probably think he was a better fighter than even he himself ever thought he was. You'd probably make him feel good about himself.

Brother!!! I DON'T actually think McCall was that good... He was really great for 1 fight... He can't bottle that performance and use it in his next fight... He has to train enthusiastically and get really for the next guy .... Steward or no Steward.

Most guys on that level don't need their hand held.... He couldn't operate without a great trainer and motivator.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 19:21

Kalan wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 19:15

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 18:48 Oliver McCall would probably like to talk to you Kalan. You probably think he was a better fighter than even he himself ever thought he was. You'd probably make him feel good about himself.

Brother!!! I DON'T actually think McCall was that good... He was really great for 1 fight... He can't bottle that performance and use it in his next fight... He has to train enthusiastically and get really for the next guy .... Steward or no Steward.

Most guys on that level don't need their hand held.... He couldn't operate without a great trainer and motivator.

LOL! That statement could've saved all of us a lot of posting!!!! LOL!

Kalan wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 19:33

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 19:21

Kalan wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 19:15

Brother!!! I DON'T actually think McCall was that good... He was really great for 1 fight... He can't bottle that performance and use it in his next fight... He has to train enthusiastically and get really for the next guy .... Steward or no Steward.

Most guys on that level don't need their hand held.... He couldn't operate without a great trainer and motivator.

LOL! That statement could've saved all of us a lot of posting!!!! LOL!

I made it clear from the beginning that the ONLY McCall who beats those guys was the McCall who KO'd Lewis.

A lot of people thought McCall had fabulous talent.... But You need emotional stability as well physical ability. Cuz you're not necessarily going to be lucky enough to have the best coach in Boxing.

Kalan wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 20:06 No... YOU'RE beating a dead horse... You don't want to give McCall credit for KOing Lewis... You're saying it was luck.

On the night McCall could have beaten anybody... As I said, McCall isn't the 1st Heavyweight Steward abandoned for what he thought was greener pastures... Holyfield and Bowe woke up one day and he was gone... Get over it crybaby.

Kalan wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 21:03 I didn't insult you... I was saying McCall was a crybaby when Manny Steward left him.. He imploded.. Damn man, get over it, wives leave too -- and that was directed at McCall not you...he was a very emotionally immature person.

But you don't get to say how good McCall was on the night... You thought he just caught a better fighter and couldn't have duplicated the effort if Steward stayed with him... He did extremely well with Steward for the 3 or 4 weeks he was with him... Steward was extremely impressed with McCall and told everybody he'd confuse the Hell out of Lewis.

And it wasn't a right hand that was loaded from left field like Rahman threw.... But you wouldn't know the difference.

Kalan wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 19:15 Brother!!! I DON'T actually think McCall was that good... He was really great for 1 fight

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 13:43He's definitely better than Randall "Texx" Cobb,

hhaehre wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 08:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 13:43He's definitely better than Randall "Texx" Cobb,

Was he really? Cobb in his prime was competitive against everybody except Holmes. McCall often had a case of sparring partner syndrome and with the high output Cobb had, he could very well outpoint McCall. Also probably not a hw fight in history more likely to go the distance than McCall-Cobb.

hhaehre wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 08:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 13:43He's definitely better than Randall "Texx" Cobb,

Was he really? Cobb in his prime was competitive against everybody except Holmes. McCall often had a case of sparring partner syndrome and with the high output Cobb had, he could very well outpoint McCall. Also probably not a hw fight in history more likely to go the distance than McCall-Cobb.

ewenhay wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 13:47 We can't really rate McCall historically based on a month's training, a couple of really good rounds in the ring and a few ifs and maybes can we?

Kalan wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 15:27

hhaehre wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 08:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 13:43He's definitely better than Randall "Texx" Cobb,

Was he really? Cobb in his prime was competitive against everybody except Holmes. McCall often had a case of sparring partner syndrome and with the high output Cobb had, he could very well outpoint McCall. Also probably not a hw fight in history more likely to go the distance than McCall-Cobb.

You seem to be dismissing Cobb's fight against Dee Collier who knocked Cobb out.

klompton wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 22:52 I love how Kalan has to pump up McCall to make Lewis look better and says crazy ass outlandish things like "Lewis has a better chin than Bowe, Holy, and Tyson. Absolute horseshit and even Lewis would admit it LOL. So when exactly was McCall ever a huge puncher that could stop these men and when was his prime outside of one fight for one moment in time? Please help me with this. Was his prime 94/95 when he beat Lewis but barely scraped by an ancient Holmes winning by only one point on two cards and getting outboxed by Frank Bruno of all people? Was it 92 when he got outboxed by rapidly fading Tony Tucker? Was it 90 when Norris beat him or 89 when Douglas beat him? Was it 97 when he was a drugged up lunatic who had a mental breakdown against Lewis? I guess you could say it was 91 when his best wins were Ferguson and Seldon but those aren't really going to convince me he was anywhere near capable of beating the same sparring partner who made him quit with a bodyshot much less Holy or Bowe. Or was it 93 when he beat Damiani whose only claim to fame was being handed a completely made up WBO title for no reason. Because here is the problem, when McCall stepped up he lost and when he was winning it was because there was a LOT of air between the best guys he lost to and the guys he was putting together winning streaks against. Did McCall have some of the tools to be great? Yes. But the fact is that while McCall has this reputation for being so tough he spent long stretches of fights simply walking forward behind a high guard and not taking any chances, not throwing, and frankly not trying to win. Kinda like two other famous "tough" losers, Chuvalo and Purrity. He would have his famous late surge and against C level competition that worked but its not working against B and A level fighters and his record reflects that. Show me a single win on his record outside of the Lewis win that points to him having some "prime" on the level of the guys mentioned above? He didn't. I don't think his win over Lewis was a fluke because I think Lewis was a glass jawed guy who was overrated at his best but still had a lot of improving to do after McCall. I don't think McCall could have repeated that performance EVER again and had Lewis had Tysons, Holyfields, or Bowes jaw I don't think he loses to McCall even being the flawed fighter he was when they fought.

klompton wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 22:52 I love how Kalan has to pump up McCall to make Lewis look better and says crazy ass outlandish things like "Lewis has a better chin than Bowe, Holy, and Tyson. Absolute horseshit and even Lewis would admit it LOL. So when exactly was McCall ever a huge puncher that could stop these men and when was his prime outside of one fight for one moment in time? Please help me with this. Was his prime 94/95 when he beat Lewis but barely scraped by an ancient Holmes winning by only one point on two cards and getting outboxed by Frank Bruno of all people? Was it 92 when he got outboxed by rapidly fading Tony Tucker? Was it 90 when Norris beat him or 89 when Douglas beat him? Was it 97 when he was a drugged up lunatic who had a mental breakdown against Lewis? I guess you could say it was 91 when his best wins were Ferguson and Seldon but those aren't really going to convince me he was anywhere near capable of beating the same sparring partner who made him quit with a bodyshot much less Holy or Bowe. Or was it 93 when he beat Damiani whose only claim to fame was being handed a completely made up WBO title for no reason. Because here is the problem, when McCall stepped up he lost and when he was winning it was because there was a LOT of air between the best guys he lost to and the guys he was putting together winning streaks against. Did McCall have some of the tools to be great? Yes. But the fact is that while McCall has this reputation for being so tough he spent long stretches of fights simply walking forward behind a high guard and not taking any chances, not throwing, and frankly not trying to win. Kinda like two other famous "tough" losers, Chuvalo and Purrity. He would have his famous late surge and against C level competition that worked but its not working against B and A level fighters and his record reflects that. Show me a single win on his record outside of the Lewis win that points to him having some "prime" on the level of the guys mentioned above? He didn't. I don't think his win over Lewis was a fluke because I think Lewis was a glass jawed guy who was overrated at his best but still had a lot of improving to do after McCall. I don't think McCall could have repeated that performance EVER again and had Lewis had Tysons, Holyfields, or Bowes jaw I don't think he loses to McCall even being the flawed fighter he was when they fought.

Kalan wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 01:22

klompton wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 22:52 I love how Kalan has to pump up McCall to make Lewis look better and says crazy ass outlandish things like "Lewis has a better chin than Bowe, Holy, and Tyson. Absolute horseshit and even Lewis would admit it LOL. So when exactly was McCall ever a huge puncher that could stop these men and when was his prime outside of one fight for one moment in time? Please help me with this. Was his prime 94/95 when he beat Lewis but barely scraped by an ancient Holmes winning by only one point on two cards and getting outboxed by Frank Bruno of all people? Was it 92 when he got outboxed by rapidly fading Tony Tucker? Was it 90 when Norris beat him or 89 when Douglas beat him? Was it 97 when he was a drugged up lunatic who had a mental breakdown against Lewis? I guess you could say it was 91 when his best wins were Ferguson and Seldon but those aren't really going to convince me he was anywhere near capable of beating the same sparring partner who made him quit with a bodyshot much less Holy or Bowe. Or was it 93 when he beat Damiani whose only claim to fame was being handed a completely made up WBO title for no reason. Because here is the problem, when McCall stepped up he lost and when he was winning it was because there was a LOT of air between the best guys he lost to and the guys he was putting together winning streaks against. Did McCall have some of the tools to be great? Yes. But the fact is that while McCall has this reputation for being so tough he spent long stretches of fights simply walking forward behind a high guard and not taking any chances, not throwing, and frankly not trying to win. Kinda like two other famous "tough" losers, Chuvalo and Purrity. He would have his famous late surge and against C level competition that worked but its not working against B and A level fighters and his record reflects that. Show me a single win on his record outside of the Lewis win that points to him having some "prime" on the level of the guys mentioned above? He didn't. I don't think his win over Lewis was a fluke because I think Lewis was a glass jawed guy who was overrated at his best but still had a lot of improving to do after McCall. I don't think McCall could have repeated that performance EVER again and had Lewis had Tysons, Holyfields, or Bowes jaw I don't think he loses to McCall even being the flawed fighter he was when they fought.

Can anybody be knocked out when hit by a perfect punch? Of course they can.. Lewis was hit with 2 perfect punches.

One punch was a sheer accident – a lottery shot, loaded like a heave from the left field fence to the plate, in a prayer to nail the runner. The other punch was delivered with precision timing and masterful execution – such as Tyson, Holyfield, and Bowe were never able to muster when they fought Lewis (one of many reasons they met with defeat).

I evaluate Lewis’s chin versus Tyson, Holyfield, and Bowe based his wins, losses and KO’s vis-à-vis Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe ... Lewis scored 2 distance wins and 2 KO wins over them so his chin was sturdier... He’s older than Tyson and Bowe and younger than Holyfield so the age thing is a wash. All 3 ducked Lewis. He wasn’t ducking them. They were scared of Lewis. That’s why there were no early fights between them...

McCall had NO such fear of Lewis... The peerless Steward came in and developed Ollie's game plan... He buffed up Ollie’s skills to a masterful level with his ingenious coaching methods... Of course you need a great coach for more than one camp... You need him for EVERY camp and EVERY fight to continue to be great.

Of the 4 Heavyweights who was the best Heavyweight they all ever fought??? LEWIS.. Who had the only victory over Lewis??? MCCALL.. McCall’s performance against Lewis was light years ahead of anything Tyson, Holyfield, and Bowe did with their weak, boring efforts... Their little piddling punches and soft chins didn’t even stand up to 2nd rate Heavyweights such as Buster Douglas.. Riddick Bowe.. and Andrew Golota.. Their weak chinned clown acts didn’t cut it versus Lewis.. McCall beat an undefeated Lewis without breaking a sweat - and LONG after Ridiculous Bowe threw his World Championship Belt in a garbage can out of shivering trepidation of the fearsome Lewis right hander.

Kalan wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 01:22All 3 ducked Lewis. He wasn’t ducking them. They were scared of Lewis. That’s why there were no early fights between them...

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 01:24

klompton wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 22:52 I love how Kalan has to pump up McCall to make Lewis look better and says crazy ass outlandish things like "Lewis has a better chin than Bowe, Holy, and Tyson. Absolute horseshit and even Lewis would admit it LOL. So when exactly was McCall ever a huge puncher that could stop these men and when was his prime outside of one fight for one moment in time? Please help me with this. Was his prime 94/95 when he beat Lewis but barely scraped by an ancient Holmes winning by only one point on two cards and getting outboxed by Frank Bruno of all people? Was it 92 when he got outboxed by rapidly fading Tony Tucker? Was it 90 when Norris beat him or 89 when Douglas beat him? Was it 97 when he was a drugged up lunatic who had a mental breakdown against Lewis? I guess you could say it was 91 when his best wins were Ferguson and Seldon but those aren't really going to convince me he was anywhere near capable of beating the same sparring partner who made him quit with a bodyshot much less Holy or Bowe. Or was it 93 when he beat Damiani whose only claim to fame was being handed a completely made up WBO title for no reason. Because here is the problem, when McCall stepped up he lost and when he was winning it was because there was a LOT of air between the best guys he lost to and the guys he was putting together winning streaks against. Did McCall have some of the tools to be great? Yes. But the fact is that while McCall has this reputation for being so tough he spent long stretches of fights simply walking forward behind a high guard and not taking any chances, not throwing, and frankly not trying to win. Kinda like two other famous "tough" losers, Chuvalo and Purrity. He would have his famous late surge and against C level competition that worked but its not working against B and A level fighters and his record reflects that. Show me a single win on his record outside of the Lewis win that points to him having some "prime" on the level of the guys mentioned above? He didn't. I don't think his win over Lewis was a fluke because I think Lewis was a glass jawed guy who was overrated at his best but still had a lot of improving to do after McCall. I don't think McCall could have repeated that performance EVER again and had Lewis had Tysons, Holyfields, or Bowes jaw I don't think he loses to McCall even being the flawed fighter he was when they fought.

hhaehre wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 03:06

Kalan wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 01:22All 3 ducked Lewis. He wasn’t ducking them. They were scared of Lewis. That’s why there were no early fights between them...

If you think fear plays a big part in fights not being made you really don't understand boxers or boxing. Boxing is a business and virtually all big fights that were not made are down to pure business decisions. Bowe didn't fight Lewis because his management deemed it to big a risk measured against the reward, simple as that.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 11:00 McCall knocked Lewis down with a good shot. No question about it. But Lewis got up.