Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua

[happyNY18]

did he say it would do anything like 1m? thats what hes adressing

and americans smply dont care much about hw boxing. wilder already does all the right things but isnt ppv there and aj isnt anyone more known then ortiz there. low hundred thousands it might do on in the us

Surprises me that. I would’ve thought this would do a million in the US considering the marketability of the participants and what’s at stake .

Admittedly I don’t understand the landscape in the Us or full history on PPV sales

It’ll do 1m in the UK if it takes place in the US thus is shown at 4am in the U.K. will do over 1.5m if it was staged in the U.K. and took place at 22:00 U.K. time

wilder at his best barely reaches 1m on normal showtime (not ppv) and ajs pretty much unknown, scraping by with low numbers in the low hundred thousands. i just dont get how ppl think a guy whose a decent but still none ppv draw in the states vs a guy unknown in the us who hasnt even fought there is gonna = 1m buys no problem. wlad klitschko was as well known in the usa as wilder btw. he was regularly doing 1m+ on tv and his bro even did 2m+ for a fight (not vs lewis)

so much being said about the fight selling itself but imo its pretty big assumptions that suddenly americans will flock to hw boxing because of this fight. wilder is an american, 6'7, ktfos everyone, talks big, etc yet hes still never even managed a ppv, and joshua doesnt do good us numbers at all. both these guys are already ko artists, look the part etc. to me its very much a possibility that americans simply dont care as much about hw boxing these days even if the participants are like aj and wilder

ortiz is on the same level or even higher in the us then aj btw

What a lot of crap. Showtime picked up Klitchko-AJ. The deal only went through 2 weeks before the fight meaning Showtime had 2 weeks to promote a fight that was to be shown in the afternoon. It did around 700k.

HBO picked Jennings-Klitchko and did 1.7m.

Wilder-Ortiz hit 1.2m.

Wilder vs AJ is a massive fight (even though neither are much good), 2 very marketable superheavy KO artists. The tv networks are fully aware of the ppv potential if its promoted correctly, hence why they are fronting 50m.

[jamamb]

wlad , who fought many times in the us over several years, was the draw in the us, not aj. aj just fought parker in a unification, two unbeaten guys, and it did like 300k on showtime. hes done numbers under that too, think it was in the 200ks for takam and breazeale. hes no draw at all on his own in the us. wilder averaged 1m vs ortiz. adrien broner was doing around that last year and had showtimes top number.

the numbers dont support it being huge in the us now at all. neither guy is a ppv attraction in the us and aj hasnt even fought in the us. 'but omg there big bad men with muscles and ko everyone!, it will be massive!', erm, okay, wilders already an american hw champ looking the part and ktfoing everyone, and hes not a huge draw at all and americans hardly seem to care much about aj yet, a guy whose never fought in the us. americans just dont care a big deal about hw boxing now.

btw you say the tv networks are fronting the money. can you tell me which networks and how we know

[jamamb]

tell me, in the last decades, whats the biggest us ppv a boxing match has done for a fight between two guys whod never been on us ppv before, with one of them never having even fought in the us?

[Enlightened-One]

"Deontay Wilder demands response from Anthony Joshua to his $50m fight offer"

"Bro, there's been a lot of misinterpretation so I want a bit of better communication for this situation now," said Wilder in his most recent post. "I offered you $50million. It's in the bag and you replied 'let's do it'.

"So, for public record, for a better understanding, so we understand what you're saying I gotta go back to elementary with this. Anthony Joshua, do you accept my offer? Yes or no. That's all I need to know."

Curiously, Wilder's post came just days before his representatives Al Haymon and Shelly Finkel had been due to meet Joshua's promoter Eddie Hearn in New York to begin discussions about a fight between the pair. The meeting has been reportedly shelved after Wilder's offer emerged.

The notion that a bout of the magnitude of Wilder Vs Joshua could be made exclusively through social media would seem farcical - and Hearn was quick to point out that only a formal offer could be considered by him and his client.

"It's very kind of him but we haven't had a proper offer yet...Only a piece of paper from a guy from Alabama. I get these emails all the time but usually they are from people from Nigeria asking me to send them some money first," joked Hearn.

"Let's see the contract and proof of funds before we get carried away," he requested. "If it's real we have to look at it and we have to take it seriously but if they expect us to make a quick decision and accept a fight today then they are widely mistaken."

[Badhusker]

Hearn set up a meeting with Haymon and Finkle for this Friday, specifically to discuss terms for this fight (it was actually set up before Deontay's 'offer'). If it's genuine, it will be discussed in the proper detail, at that time.

What we know so far:

• Al Haymon did not make the offer.

• Shelly Finkle did not make the offer.

• Lou DiBella did not make the offer.

• Nobody else with actual authority to issue a contract, or with access to funds to back said contract, made the offer.

• The 'offer' was sent, with an expiry date BEFORE an already arranged meeting between Hearn, Haymon, and Finkle.

So who DID make the offer?

Mr Deontay Wilder himself (with zero authority to offer any kind of deal, and zero access to funds to finance said deal), via a personal email sent to Eddie Hearn, Anthony Joshua, and Rob McCracken.

Zero details, zero authority, only 24 hours notice to accept or reject (despite a meeting already existing beyond that expiry)... That's it.

There's no WAY that 'offer' is genuine - if it is, it will leave Wilder taking home LESS than the $12.5m Hearn offered him. Wilder is spouting hot air, as usual. I suppose it classes as building interest in the fight, for anyone who can't see through the bs...

Apparently you didn't read this article.
https://www.BS.com/wilder-mana ... im--127564

I can't quite make out what this email means. It seems to say accept the offer and then we'll tell you the details of what you accepted. I think it's awesome they made this offer, but I don't like that they said there is no point meeting unless the offer is accepted. Why would anyone accept anything they don't have all the details on?

They obviously want team Joshua to basically accept what Joshua said he would accept. Them they know they are serious enough to sit down and talk.
They said they will prove the money is there, which is never the norm to do that, but understandable.

[Enlightened-One]

Apparently you didn't read this article.
https://www.BS.com/wilder-mana ... im--127564

That letter written by Shelly Finkel is absolutely atrocious!

He’s basically saying that Team Wilder is unwilling to even discuss the terms of the $50m offer until Joshua and Hearn agree to their alleged “guarantee” beforehand!

That’s not how people do business!

If Shelly Finkel had claimed that they’ve already raised the money and could prove that it was being held in Escrow, then fair enough, but no one knows what Team Wilder are referring to when they say “guarantee”.

Anthony Joshua doesn’t know how the money is being funded or when he’ll receive it, as well as all the other considerations, such as date and venue for the bout, TV network coverage etc.

AJ and Hearn cannot possibly be expected to accept the terms of a bout that has only been discussed (at a very high-level) via social media!

None of Wilder’s advocates can possibly argue that Shelly Finkel’s conduct, in relation to the handling of this situation, is entirely appropriate, since no fight in the history of mankind has ever been negotiated solely via social media before!

[punchoutsb]

Apparently you didn't read this article.
https://www.BS.com/wilder-mana ... im--127564

I can't quite make out what this email means. It seems to say accept the offer and then we'll tell you the details of what you accepted. I think it's awesome they made this offer, but I don't like that they said there is no point meeting unless the offer is accepted. Why would anyone accept anything they don't have all the details on?

They obviously want team Joshua to basically accept what Joshua said he would accept. Them they know they are serious enough to sit down and talk.
They said they will prove the money is there, which is never the norm to do that, but understandable.

Would you accept a financial guarantee without knowing the details?

[keirw]

Dear Eddie,
With all due respect you know Al and I for a long time and you know this is not a publicity stunt. I assure you that we’re serious and we would be glad to sit down with you and provide proper security for the funding and work out all the details.

But it all has to start with Anthony Joshua accepting the $50million offer that he asked for, which is also by far the largest guarantee and largest purse any heavyweight champion in history has ever made.
Until then, it would be non-productive to meet. Please have Anthony accept the offer that he asked for and let’s get this fight made.
Thanks, Shelly


If this letter is legit, then that means Finkel was willing to cancel today's meeting with Hearn because Joshua wouldn't blindly agree to an 'offer' that was extremely vague and had been delivered over instagram (or whatever it was).

That sounds ridiculous and makes me think Wilder's team don't want this fight anywhere near as much as they make out.

How can Joshua agree to that?

For all he knows they want him to fight in a Qatari billionaire's back garden and be paid with Bitcoin.

[happyNY18]

wlad , who fought many times in the us over several years, was the draw in the us, not aj. aj just fought parker in a unification, two unbeaten guys, and it did like 300k on showtime. hes done numbers under that too, think it was in the 200ks for takam and breazeale. hes no draw at all on his own in the us. wilder averaged 1m vs ortiz. adrien broner was doing around that last year and had showtimes top number.

the numbers dont support it being huge in the us now at all. neither guy is a ppv attraction in the us and aj hasnt even fought in the us. 'but omg there big bad men with muscles and ko everyone!, it will be massive!', erm, okay, wilders already an american hw champ looking the part and ktfoing everyone, and hes not a huge draw at all and americans hardly seem to care much about aj yet, a guy whose never fought in the us. americans just dont care a big deal about hw boxing now.

btw you say the tv networks are fronting the money. can you tell me which networks and how we know

Yea Wlad was a huge draw in America, he gained a fearsome reputation after his fights such as Lamont Brewster.

[Boxerbeetle]

Jesus, can’t believe anyone on this board would think this offer was even close to legitimate

[dickbelden]

https://postimg.cc/image/skj3l03hf/ DAN RAFAEL thinks the $50 million guarantee for AJ is legit ! http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/chat/_ ... dan-rafael

[Deleted_Scenes]

They said they will prove the money is there, which is never the norm to do that, but understandable.

On the contrary, it absolutely IS the norm to prove the funds exist for guarantees to be paid. In fact, if it was a purse bid situation, it would be compulsory to prove the existence of funds - as shown recently, in the Charr vs Oquendo shambles.

Cancelling a meeting for failure to accept an offer over social media, shows to me that Wilder's side aren't the slightest bit interested in a Joshua fight right now. They just seem to want to use his name to increase their own media exposure (and the financial benefit that may have for the reportedly already agreed Breazeale fight, in all likelihood).

In fact, if all they need is Joshua to agree to the financial guarantee in principle, with other details open to proper negotiation, he already did that via twitter - Finkel is just pretending he didn't, and hoping we all believe him.

It's really no wonder Wilder has attracted such poor paydays so far, with this being the way he's managed. Utter incompetence, from a business point of view.

[Bard of Boxrec]

They said they will prove the money is there, which is never the norm to do that, but understandable.

On the contrary, it absolutely IS the norm to prove the funds exist for guarantees to be paid. In fact, if it was a purse bid situation, it would be compulsory to prove the existence of funds - as shown recently, in the Charr vs Oquendo shambles.

Cancelling a meeting for failure to accept an offer over social media, shows to me that Wilder's side aren't the slightest bit interested in a Joshua fight right now. They just seem to want to use his name to increase their own media exposure (and the financial benefit that may have for the reportedly already agreed Breazeale fight, in all likelihood).

In fact, if all they need is Joshua to agree to the financial guarantee in principle, with other details open to proper negotiation, he already did that via twitter - Finkel is just pretending he didn't, and hoping we all believe him.

It's really no wonder Wilder has attracted such poor paydays so far, with this being the way he's managed. Utter incompetence, from a business point of view.

It does seem remarkably bush league doesn't it. But then again, maybe they've calculated that there is a good enough chance of their behaviour raising the profile of the fight that they are prepared to look amateur hour in the process.

[Deleted_Scenes]

They said they will prove the money is there, which is never the norm to do that, but understandable.

On the contrary, it absolutely IS the norm to prove the funds exist for guarantees to be paid. In fact, if it was a purse bid situation, it would be compulsory to prove the existence of funds - as shown recently, in the Charr vs Oquendo shambles.

Cancelling a meeting for failure to accept an offer over social media, shows to me that Wilder's side aren't the slightest bit interested in a Joshua fight right now. They just seem to want to use his name to increase their own media exposure (and the financial benefit that may have for the reportedly already agreed Breazeale fight, in all likelihood).

In fact, if all they need is Joshua to agree to the financial guarantee in principle, with other details open to proper negotiation, he already did that via twitter - Finkel is just pretending he didn't, and hoping we all believe him.

It's really no wonder Wilder has attracted such poor paydays so far, with this being the way he's managed. Utter incompetence, from a business point of view.

It does seem remarkably bush league doesn't it. But then again, maybe they've calculated that there is a good enough chance of their behaviour raising the profile of the fight that they are prepared to look amateur hour in the process.

I think both sides will resort to fake social media 'offers' and slagging each other off/accusing the other of 'ducking' for at least another year yet.

It just isn't a big enough fight in the US yet, which neither side likes.

Wilder's team have reserved the Barclays Centre for a fight with Breazeale, and we all know Joshua is fighting Povetkin next. Plus, after the way the WBC just screwed Whyte over, I don't think Hearn will allow Wilder a payday against Joshua, until after he defends against Whyte (voluntarily, if the WBC continue their Haymon arse licking antics).

[KiwiRider]

Big waste of time.
No contract.
Would not meet with Eddie.
Time to move on.
AJ has Povitkin and Miller then Whyte 2.
Wilder has whoever Haymon has on his books for pennies on the dollar. Gotta keep that belt!
Brazeale? I wouldn't crack a beer for that fight.

[jamamb]

wlad , who fought many times in the us over several years, was the draw in the us, not aj. aj just fought parker in a unification, two unbeaten guys, and it did like 300k on showtime. hes done numbers under that too, think it was in the 200ks for takam and breazeale. hes no draw at all on his own in the us. wilder averaged 1m vs ortiz. adrien broner was doing around that last year and had showtimes top number.

the numbers dont support it being huge in the us now at all. neither guy is a ppv attraction in the us and aj hasnt even fought in the us. 'but omg there big bad men with muscles and ko everyone!, it will be massive!', erm, okay, wilders already an american hw champ looking the part and ktfoing everyone, and hes not a huge draw at all and americans hardly seem to care much about aj yet, a guy whose never fought in the us. americans just dont care a big deal about hw boxing now.

btw you say the tv networks are fronting the money. can you tell me which networks and how we know

Yea Wlad was a huge draw in America, he gained a fearsome reputation after his fights such as Lamont Brewster.

the fact is that wlad consistently did very good us numbers. he was easily one of the biggest draws in the us who wasnt a regular ppv fighter there. and he could get 15k crowds there too. joshs usa numbers went back to nothing for his post wlad fights when he didnt have wlad to boost the figures. hes not a serious name there at all. more americans watched jennings fight wlad.

wilder is a good draw in the usa by non-ppv standards. hes not a ppv fighter though. and ajs numbers are generally low, suggesting hes not on the american rader that heavily. putting them together now isnt going to suddenly create some massive usa ppv fight that captivates the nation.

the fact is that hw boxing simply isnt that big in the us right now, even when you have a an american, 6'7 brash talking ktfo artist who looks the part. the most popular/best drawing fighters in the usa of recent years have been smaller guys like floyd, canelo, cotto, manny, oscar, etc

[happyNY18]

wlad , who fought many times in the us over several years, was the draw in the us, not aj. aj just fought parker in a unification, two unbeaten guys, and it did like 300k on showtime. hes done numbers under that too, think it was in the 200ks for takam and breazeale. hes no draw at all on his own in the us. wilder averaged 1m vs ortiz. adrien broner was doing around that last year and had showtimes top number.

the numbers dont support it being huge in the us now at all. neither guy is a ppv attraction in the us and aj hasnt even fought in the us. 'but omg there big bad men with muscles and ko everyone!, it will be massive!', erm, okay, wilders already an american hw champ looking the part and ktfoing everyone, and hes not a huge draw at all and americans hardly seem to care much about aj yet, a guy whose never fought in the us. americans just dont care a big deal about hw boxing now.

btw you say the tv networks are fronting the money. can you tell me which networks and how we know

Yea Wlad was a huge draw in America, he gained a fearsome reputation after his fights such as Lamont Brewster.

the fact is that wlad consistently did very good us numbers. he was easily one of the biggest draws in the us who wasnt a regular ppv fighter there. and he could get 15k crowds there too. joshs usa numbers went back to nothing for his post wlad fights when he didnt have wlad to boost the figures. hes not a serious name there at all. more americans watched jennings fight wlad.

wilder is a good draw in the usa by non-ppv standards. hes not a ppv fighter though. and ajs numbers are generally low, suggesting hes not on the american rader that heavily. putting them together now isnt going to suddenly create some massive usa ppv fight that captivates the nation.

the fact is that hw boxing simply isnt that big in the us right now, even when you have a an american, 6'7 brash talking ktfo artist who looks the part. the most popular/best drawing fighters in the usa of recent years have been smaller guys like floyd, canelo, cotto, manny, oscar, etc

You would make a shockingly bad boxing promoter.

Jamamb: "Wilder vs Joshua!? That'll never sell!!"

[jamamb]

never said it wouldnt sell, just that it wouldnt be a huge ppv event in the us. certainly nothing like 1m+ buys if it happened next. im sure it would still do very well compared to most fights though

[candyslim]

Who wants to buy my motorcycle ?

It cost me £10,000 when I bought it but it's yours for only £5,000.

The offer expires at 12 noon today bst and if you promise to buy it in writing here on boxrec I will then, and only then, tell you what, make, model and year it is and send you photographs and a contract.

Now I can't say fairer than that can I ?

[candyslim]

Time's up the offer is withdrawn. You lot are clearly just time-wasters who cannot be taken seriously

[Deslioni]

Who wants to buy my motorcycle ?

It cost me £10,000 when I bought it but it's yours for only £5,000.

The offer expires at 12 noon today bst and if you promise to buy it in writing here on boxrec I will then, and only then, tell you what, make, model and year it is and send you photographs and a contract.

Now I can't say fairer than that can I ?

[candyslim]

I deal with a lot of lawyers (I'm not one, your wallets are safe with me) in my job. I'm often presented with ultimata, offers, and deadlines. These days I take very little notice of deadlines. One thing I've learnt in over forty years of negotiating with difficult pushy arseholes, is that if it's a good deal today, it'll be a good deal tomorrow.

By that I mean if they are prepared to accept something before their deadline then it's very rare they aren't prepared to re-instate that offer once that deadline has expired. I frequently wait for the deadline to expire before making any move just to test the waters. I wouldn't say I've never come unstuck following this tactic but it's usually the case that if they stick to time-barring my acceptance/ counter it's because they were not serious about it, were hoping it wouldn't be accepted, or were being pricks about it just to prove a point.

One thing I would add is that under English Law, (and probably USNY too but I'm not certain), the signature on a contact is simply evidence of that contract, and the deal is legally binding when the terms have been verbally agreed. Of course in practice it's sometimes difficult to prove the existence of an unwritten agreement, but these days when everything is recorded in the media, team Deontay should be a little careful. I guess they have worked out there is no possibility that offer could be accepted within 24 hours, even if Hearn and Joshua wanted to jump on it, because that offer if agreed would be enforceable under English Law (if it were within jurisdiction) even if the whole show made half that in profit before Deontay and AJ get paid.

[happyNY18]

never said it wouldnt sell, just that it wouldnt be a huge ppv event in the us. certainly nothing like 1m+ buys if it happened next. im sure it would still do very well compared to most fights though

You lack vision.

It would sell 1m in the uk alone despite being on at 4am.

[jamamb]

im sure it would do great in the uk where josh is a huge draw

[Lackeos]

It's pretty weird how everyone in this thread was acting like Wilder called Joshua's bluff by offering $50 million, when it turns out that Wilder had literally 0 intention of fighting Joshua next, and already had a fight lined-up with Breazeale, which he 100% already knew about.