BoxRec

Posted: **14 May 2018, 10:02**

jujigatame wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 09:39 The announcers vastly overstated the importance of the size differential. It was probably 5-10 pounds tops. Munguia fought at 147 as recently as last year.

He was just much bigger in size. Also we only saw a comparison in size at the weigh-in.

Posted: **14 May 2018, 10:06**

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 07:56
DA1 wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 21:21
oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 20:44
You said he was top 10 ranked and I went back and couldn't find him even then back then. When was he 1 or 7?
Magomed Kurbanov?

I'm looking at it right now: http://www.wboboxing.com/rankings

WBO - 2017 - [MONTH] - Jr. MW =
September= #1
October = #1
November = #2
December = #3

WBO - 2018 - [MONTH] - Jr. MW =
January = #2
February = Unranked
March = Unranked (Mungia shows up at #6)

They have Sadam Ali's country listed as PR (Puerto Rico) too.
ESPN has pretty fair rankings. Comparably Speaking.

But the link you posted isn't ESPN and looked like it hadn't been updated in years.

Posted: **14 May 2018, 11:17**

DA1 wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 15:37
SenorPipino wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 15:00 But he did follow up with a "lol."

I don't see the setup angle although there's no question that GBP would prefer a Mexican star in the stable rather than Ali.

Down the road, Munguia may develop into huge box office. Ali never would.

But I don't think it's strictly symptomatic of Golden Boy to prefer a Mexican national champion.
Except everyone and their mother is calling it like it is.
Duh, of course Munguia would make more money for a GBP type promotion. You're questioning then answering yourself here. They would very much prefer a Mexican, even if it means bringing in one twice Ali's size to take the belt from him. If that Mexican champ at 168 actually was any good, they'd stick him in there with GGG too. But he's not, so he's fighting African cherrypicks with Arum.

He got str8t setup - Leonard Ellerbe

This sh-t all political, trust me, I won’t go reaching, guarantee he signed a contract before this fight. Done talking - Jermell Charlo

Even if he was set up, Ali controls what happens in and out of that ring. The fighter determines if he wins or loses a lot more than the promoter.

Posted: **14 May 2018, 11:32**

I never heard Ali complain beforehand about a setup.

Too much dumbass complaining about zilch.

Munguia is a super welterweight. He weighed LESS than Ali at the weigh-in.

Ali had vast amateur experience (an Olympian) over Munguia and had also tangled with world class pros.

The Mexican had only fought C level and under opposition.

If anyone was being set up to lose it was the raw Munguia.

So he looked bigger than Ali. Big crap. I didn't hear Lara or his sycophants whining about Hurd being so big.

Why the double standard with Munguia?

Posted: **14 May 2018, 14:02**

DA1 wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 10:06
oogiebe wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 07:56
DA1 wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 21:21
Magomed Kurbanov?

I'm looking at it right now: http://www.wboboxing.com/rankings

WBO - 2017 - [MONTH] - Jr. MW =
September= #1
October = #1
November = #2
December = #3

WBO - 2018 - [MONTH] - Jr. MW =
January = #2
February = Unranked
March = Unranked (Mungia shows up at #6)

They have Sadam Ali's country listed as PR (Puerto Rico) too.
ESPN has pretty fair rankings. Comparably Speaking.
But the link you posted isn't ESPN and looked like it hadn't been updated in years.

That post was an my mistake. I should have looked it more over prior to posting. No worries.

Posted: **14 May 2018, 22:37**

jujigatame wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 09:39 The announcers vastly overstated the importance of the size differential. It was probably 5-10 pounds tops. Munguia fought at 147 as recently as last year.

Hindsight is 20/20. Ali was a slight betting favorite so where were all these people calling mismatch before the fight?

^^^^^^^^^^^

This pretty much sounds spot on to me.

I'm beginning to suspect that this sudden off-the-wall outcry about Munguia being some sort of ringer is probably fueled by a growing resentment of Mexican boxing stars in general and a contempt for GBP in particular.

Posted: **14 May 2018, 22:48**

munguia was far bigger, you can have massive size differences with two guys who regularly fight in the same division, so being divisions apart of course they can be very big .

ali was a lightweight olympian and at most average at 147, munguia is 6 feet tall and muscular at 154

ppl not saying it was a mismatch ahead of time doesnt mean munguia wasnt much bigger, although i dont think it was some set up

Posted: **14 May 2018, 22:56**

SenorPipino wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 22:37
jujigatame wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 09:39 The announcers vastly overstated the importance of the size differential. It was probably 5-10 pounds tops. Munguia fought at 147 as recently as last year.

Hindsight is 20/20. Ali was a slight betting favorite so where were all these people calling mismatch before the fight?

^^^^^^^^^^^

This pretty much sounds spot on to me.

I'm beginning to suspect that this sudden off-the-wall outcry about Munguia being some sort of ringer is probably fueled by a growing resentment of Mexican boxing stars in general and a contempt for GBP in particular.

is there are growing general resentment for mexican boxers? because there mexican? based on what?

Posted: **15 May 2018, 00:03**

It's the Canelo connection.

You can't deny that there's an awfully high degree of animosity toward him here and on social media. And it began long before the clenbuterol affair.

That same animosity always seems to extend to GBP, Canelo's promoter.

Even posts here have been critical of De La Hoya favoring Mexican fighters and trying to maneuver Ali out of the title by slyly slipping in another Mexican as a replacement opponent.

I sense that all this conspiracy talk is simply generated by resentment.

It doesn't make sense to scream about some scandalous setup when the 21 year old Munguia was nothing more than an inexperienced super welter who weighed in lighter than the vastly more experienced and accomplished Ali.

The flack originates from Canelo hatred, extends to Latino-oriented Golden Boy and now taints an outstanding and deserved win by the Mexican Munguia.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 01:50**

SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 00:03 It's the Canelo connection.

You can't deny that there's an awfully high degree of animosity toward him here and on social media. And it began long before the clenbuterol affair.

That same animosity always seems to extend to GBP, Canelo's promoter.

Even posts here have been critical of De La Hoya favoring Mexican fighters and trying to maneuver Ali out of the title by slyly slipping in another Mexican as a replacement opponent.

I sense that all this conspiracy talk is simply generated by resentment.

It doesn't make sense to scream about some scandalous setup when the 21 year old Munguia was nothing more than an inexperienced super welter who weighed in lighter than the vastly more experienced and accomplished Ali.

The flack originates from Canelo hatred, extends to Latino-oriented Golden Boy and now taints an outstanding and deserved win by the Mexican Munguia.

There is financial incentive for Mexican stars, and you said it before yourself. So you know the answer to that question. GBP would benefit getting rid of a Sadam type and replacing him with a Munguia type.

Matter of fact, a Canelo vs Munguia fight may even be in our future, assuming Mung doesn't catch an L down the road. Canelo's time is ticking, and they need a new star. A "golden boy" Mungia vs "shamed" Canelo fight provides a nice storyline too. Kind of like the Canelo vs JCC Jr fight, which was very profitable albeit totally pointless. If the Canelo hate, as you pointed out, continues, they might want him to die at the hands of another Mexican so as to "redeem" some sort of honor for the country or whatever.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 02:16**

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 11:17
Even if he was set up, Ali controls what happens in and out of that ring. The fighter determines if he wins or loses a lot more than the promoter.

Thanks for stating the obvious. After all, if you put Inoue in with Lomachenko. Inoue decides if he wins or loses. But that's why the small guy doesn't fight the larger guy, unless its a mando. Which this wasn't. Sadam took the fight like a dumbass, so he takes blame for that. And a man's own promoter just gave him a fight he ended up destroyed in, they take blame for that.

But if the promoter only offers you one fighter, you've gotta take it. You just spent months training, spending money and sweat. Does that go to waste? He just lost money on camp, forget make any. He has to pay his coaches/cornermen. This is how you trap a fighter.

Listen to what Paulie says here, its not rocket science:

Spent money on training camp. He hasn't made a lot of money yet so the money spent on Camp isn't recovered if you don't fight. So YES he had to agree when GBP gave only Munguia as the replacement opponent option. - Paulie Malignaggi

Posted: **15 May 2018, 03:34**

So let me get this straight.

Munguia made the weight. He beat Ali in the ring fair and square... And now some people are upset that Ali had to fight this monster? They did not let him crush some tin can instead? Champion had to take hard fight?

This is exactly what is wrong with boxing. The champions should fight the best opponents out there. Every time. Not go on some bum of the month tour. Now that it accidentally happened people are upset? Unbelievable bullshit

Posted: **15 May 2018, 05:22**

Heretic wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 03:34 So let me get this straight.

Munguia made the weight. He beat Ali in the ring fair and square... And now some people are upset that Ali had to fight this monster? They did not let him crush some tin can instead? Champion had to take hard fight?

This is exactly what is wrong with boxing. The champions should fight the best opponents out there. Every time. Not go on some bum of the month tour. Now that it accidentally happened people are upset? Unbelievable bullshit

Best opponents? No one really gave Munguia a chance anyway.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 06:36**

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 05:22
Heretic wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 03:34 So let me get this straight.

Munguia made the weight. He beat Ali in the ring fair and square... And now some people are upset that Ali had to fight this monster? They did not let him crush some tin can instead? Champion had to take hard fight?

This is exactly what is wrong with boxing. The champions should fight the best opponents out there. Every time. Not go on some bum of the month tour. Now that it accidentally happened people are upset? Unbelievable bullshit
Best opponents? No one really gave Munguia a chance anyway.

Well he turned out to be pretty good opponent after all

Posted: **15 May 2018, 09:37**

jamamb wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 22:56
SenorPipino wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 22:37
jujigatame wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 09:39 The announcers vastly overstated the importance of the size differential. It was probably 5-10 pounds tops. Munguia fought at 147 as recently as last year.

Hindsight is 20/20. Ali was a slight betting favorite so where were all these people calling mismatch before the fight?

^^^^^^^^^^^

This pretty much sounds spot on to me.

I'm beginning to suspect that this sudden off-the-wall outcry about Munguia being some sort of ringer is probably fueled by a growing resentment of Mexican boxing stars in general and a contempt for GBP in particular.
is there are growing general resentment for mexican boxers? because there mexican? based on what?

There is? IF so I haven't heard anything like that.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 09:43**

Heretic wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 03:34 So let me get this straight.

Munguia made the weight. He beat Ali in the ring fair and square... And now some people are upset that Ali had to fight this monster? They did not let him crush some tin can instead? Champion had to take hard fight?

This is exactly what is wrong with boxing. The champions should fight the best opponents out there. Every time. Not go on some bum of the month tour. Now that it accidentally happened people are upset? Unbelievable bullshit

People move up and successfully fight bigger men. Ali just isn't good enough even for raw Munguia.
Chinny Ali had nothing to do at 154. In order to fight bigger men, one needs to have a very good speed, defense and chin, and he doesn't have that.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 09:48**

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 09:43
Heretic wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 03:34 So let me get this straight.

Munguia made the weight. He beat Ali in the ring fair and square... And now some people are upset that Ali had to fight this monster? They did not let him crush some tin can instead? Champion had to take hard fight?

This is exactly what is wrong with boxing. The champions should fight the best opponents out there. Every time. Not go on some bum of the month tour. Now that it accidentally happened people are upset? Unbelievable bullshit
People move up and successfully fight bigger men. Ali just isn't good enough even for raw Munguia.
Chinny Ali had nothing to do at 154. In order to fight bigger men, one needs to have a very good speed, defense and chin, and he doesn't have that.

Agreed. Moving up just didn't' work out for Ali. (Although I think he got bad advice to make the move in the first place). MOST successful moves up in weight are from guys who are just plain struggling to make weight as they get older and fill out. Ali was not one of those. He'll be fine after going back down and has a lot left to make some noise at the lower weight class. JMHO.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 09:52**

oogiebe wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 09:48
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 09:43
Heretic wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 03:34 So let me get this straight.

Munguia made the weight. He beat Ali in the ring fair and square... And now some people are upset that Ali had to fight this monster? They did not let him crush some tin can instead? Champion had to take hard fight?

This is exactly what is wrong with boxing. The champions should fight the best opponents out there. Every time. Not go on some bum of the month tour. Now that it accidentally happened people are upset? Unbelievable bullshit
People move up and successfully fight bigger men. Ali just isn't good enough even for raw Munguia.
Chinny Ali had nothing to do at 154. In order to fight bigger men, one needs to have a very good speed, defense and chin, and he doesn't have that.
Agreed. Moving up just didn't' work out for Ali. (Although I think he got bad advice to make the move in the first place). MOST successful moves up in weight are from guys who are just plain struggling to make weight as they get older and fill out. Ali was not one of those. He'll be fine after going back down and has a lot left to make some noise at the lower weight class. JMHO.

Yeh. No need to stay at 154.. he should be able to drop back down. Unless he's filled out too much.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 09:55**

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 09:52
oogiebe wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 09:48
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 09:43
People move up and successfully fight bigger men. Ali just isn't good enough even for raw Munguia.
Chinny Ali had nothing to do at 154. In order to fight bigger men, one needs to have a very good speed, defense and chin, and he doesn't have that.
Agreed. Moving up just didn't' work out for Ali. (Although I think he got bad advice to make the move in the first place). MOST successful moves up in weight are from guys who are just plain struggling to make weight as they get older and fill out. Ali was not one of those. He'll be fine after going back down and has a lot left to make some noise at the lower weight class. JMHO.
Yeh. No need to stay at 154.. he should be able to drop back down. Unless he's filled out too much.

I guess I just think he was a bit bloated around the middle at 154. I believe that he's not built big enough to successfully carry that weight, thus my saying he got bad advice. So he's "overfilledout" so to speak! LOL!

Posted: **15 May 2018, 10:05**

DA1 wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 02:16
IKSRTFO wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 11:17
Even if he was set up, Ali controls what happens in and out of that ring. The fighter determines if he wins or loses a lot more than the promoter.
Thanks for stating the obvious. After all, if you put Inoue in with Lomachenko. Inoue decides if he wins or loses. But that's why the small guy doesn't fight the larger guy, unless its a mando. Which this wasn't. Sadam took the fight like a dumbass, so he takes blame for that. And a man's own promoter just gave him a fight he ended up destroyed in, they take blame for that.

But if the promoter only offers you one fighter, you've gotta take it. You just spent months training, spending money and sweat. Does that go to waste? He just lost money on camp, forget make any. He has to pay his coaches/cornermen. This is how you trap a fighter.

Listen to what Paulie says here, its not rocket science:

Spent money on training camp. He hasn't made a lot of money yet so the money spent on Camp isn't recovered if you don't fight. So YES he had to agree when GBP gave only Munguia as the replacement opponent option. - Paulie Malignaggi

Still, if he was a better fighter, it wouldn't have mattered. Screw all this "They shouldn't put me in the ring with him" He's a boxer and his job is to box. If you can't be someone, so be it. That's why they compete.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 10:08**

oogiebe wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 09:48
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 09:43
Heretic wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 03:34 So let me get this straight.

Munguia made the weight. He beat Ali in the ring fair and square... And now some people are upset that Ali had to fight this monster? They did not let him crush some tin can instead? Champion had to take hard fight?

This is exactly what is wrong with boxing. The champions should fight the best opponents out there. Every time. Not go on some bum of the month tour. Now that it accidentally happened people are upset? Unbelievable bullshit
People move up and successfully fight bigger men. Ali just isn't good enough even for raw Munguia.
Chinny Ali had nothing to do at 154. In order to fight bigger men, one needs to have a very good speed, defense and chin, and he doesn't have that.
Agreed. Moving up just didn't' work out for Ali. (Although I think he got bad advice to make the move in the first place). MOST successful moves up in weight are from guys who are just plain struggling to make weight as they get older and fill out. Ali was not one of those. He'll be fine after going back down and has a lot left to make some noise at the lower weight class. JMHO.

It would be interesting to see pre-Golovkin Brook against Munguia. Now Brook is damaged goods. I hope he doesn't fight Hurd who wants him.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 10:51**

I never really understood why Ali went up in weight in the first place to fight Cotto.

He got knocked out by Vargas, who is not known to be the biggest puncher.

So I am not surprised by the result. Though I am sure there was some politics behind the scene I am not being a conspiracy theorist.

Mungia looked decent, will be interesting to see him against a solid 154. Maybe Brook next?

Or another rising contender?

Posted: **15 May 2018, 10:56**

bmilligan wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 10:51 I never really understood why Ali went up in weight in the first place to fight Cotto.

He got knocked out by Vargas, who is not known to be the biggest puncher.

So I am not surprised by the result. Though I am sure there was some politics behind the scene I am not being a conspiracy theorist.

Mungia looked decent, will be interesting to see him against a solid 154. Maybe Brook next?

Or another rising contender?

Simply poor decision making.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 11:23**

bmilligan wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 10:51 I never really understood why Ali went up in weight in the first place to fight Cotto.

Have you heard about money? Cotto fight was likely his best paycheck ever. He just should've moved back down after that.

Posted: **15 May 2018, 11:26**

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 11:23
bmilligan wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 10:51 I never really understood why Ali went up in weight in the first place to fight Cotto.
Have you heard about money? Cotto fight was likely his best paycheck ever. He just should've moved back down after that.

If the move was based on money then it's a dumber decision. Ali lost some 'luster' thanks to this brainiac move.

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