Who deserves a bigger split percentage between Spence and Crawford ? Who is the bigger 'draw' ?

[Onetimeonly]

Okay, then let's compare UFC to PBC. That's fair. PBC won't even match their best fighter(Spence) with other fighters from their stable at and around his weight class.

The UFC is bigger than boxing in the States by itself. Listing the number of events is faulty. There's probably only 45 PGA golf tournaments and that's way bigger than boxing too. Good luck finding boxing in a bar, because there is likely a UFC on. He's just talking out of his ass. It's telling on ESPN that boxing is sandwiched between WNBA and wwe.

[leejonesjnr]

Okay, then let's compare UFC to PBC. That's fair. PBC won't even match their best fighter(Spence) with other fighters from their stable at and around his weight class.

I agree, but that is a completely different argument/discussion.

I would also agree that UFC is bigger than any individual boxing promotion, but that isn't what I was disagreeing with anyway.

The UFC has no direct comparison with any boxing companies until such a time that a promoter starts crowning their own champions (I saw reports a while back that PBC were considering such a thing but I don't know how much that was based in reality)

[leejonesjnr]

The UFC is bigger than boxing in the States by itself. Listing the number of events is faulty. There's probably only 45 PGA golf tournaments and that's way bigger than boxing too. Good luck finding boxing in a bar, because there is likely a UFC on. He's just talking out of his ass. It's telling on ESPN that boxing is sandwiched between WNBA and wwe.

Good luck finding me in a bar - so what?
What criteria are you using to define 'bigger'?
Generates more money?
Higher live and TV audiences?

[Onetimeonly]

What criteria are you using to define 'bigger'?
Generates more money?
Higher live and TV audiences?

It's more popular and profitable. If you ask someone about the fight in America. 9 times out of 10 if they watch at all they'll think you're talking about the UFC. Dazn has less subscribers at 9.99 a month after about 8 months than the worst UFC ppv ever sells at 70. Anyway you want to look at it.

[leejonesjnr]

It's more popular and profitable. If you ask someone about the fight in America. 9 times out of 10 if they watch at all they'll think you're talking about the UFC. Dazn has less subscribers at 9.99 a month after about 8 months than the worst UFC ppv ever sells at 70. Anyway you want to look at it.

So you agree that boxing or UFC, whichever generates more money and has a higher number of live and TV viewers is the 'bigger'?

[Onetimeonly]

So you agree that boxing or UFC, whichever generates more money and has a higher number of live and TV viewers is the 'bigger'?

The UFC is bigger and yes, they make much more money.

[leejonesjnr]

The UFC is bigger and yes, they make much more money.

Haha.
Okay that’s the end of me engaging in this, when someone says that the UFC makes more money than the sport of boxing there is no more sensible discussion to be had.

[Onetimeonly]

Haha.
Okay that’s the end of me engaging in this, when someone says that the UFC makes more money than the sport of boxing there is no more sensible discussion to be had.

You are just uninformed. Dazn is losing money hand over fist, pbc lost around 500 million though they're doing better now. The ufc is valued over 5 billion dollars. They just got a 5 year deal with ESPN for 1.5 billion for 150 cards, that doesn't even count gate revenue and revenue for 65 or so ppvs over that time frame or their Reebok money. But yeah, get out before you embarrass yourself any further.

[Ruthless-RKO]

This should be 50-50 all day everyday.

Funny how Spence talking up his ppv numbers against Mikey.. Compared to Crawford-Khan.

Many have said and agreed it was Mikey that was popular one and brought in most buys.

Funny how Spence vs. Porter is gonna be on regular FOX, but Mikey vs. Danny is being planned for ppv.

Spence and Porter both beat Mikey and Danny, and TBH, if anything, it should be Spence vs. Porter on ppv, not Mikey vs. Danny, but hey, if you sell and have a market, like the latino market, you're gonna do well. Also Danny being Puertorican.

Oh and I like Spence, he's one of my fav fighters.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Spence wants a 60-40 split in his favour.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Since the fight his rival Spence has proposed a 60/40 split scenario in favor of Spence should the two fight next year.

Here’s what Crawford thinks of that:



Indeed Crawford doesn’t seem confident in the fight’s chances of even happening:

[Enlightened-One]

Some facts to consider...

Up until last weekend’s Brook mismatch, The RING, ESPN and TBRB all rated Spence Jr. over Crawford at 147lbs.

And Spence Jr. possesses the WBC & IBF titles, with the only other belt, the WBA strap possessed by a fellow PBC stablemate (Manny Pacquiao, with the Filipino having one bout remaining on his contract with Al Haymon and is allegedly facing Mikey Garca next).

Errol Spence Jr., Danny Garcia, Manny Pacquiao, Shawn Porter, Keith Thurman, Yordenis Ugas, Sergey Lipinets, Mikey Garcia and Jamal James are all Al Haymon/PBC fighters.

Even though Kudratillo Abdukakhorov is a Top Rank fighter, he's likely to compete on a PBC card for the final fight of his three-bout deal with Bob Arum, when he’ll be the underdog facing Sergey Lipinets.

I can’t think of any other top-ten world-rated welterweights that Crawford could face, other than Kudratillo Abdukakhorov and Vergil Ortiz, but they aren't established welterweight names (i.e. they're only fringe top-ten at best).

Regardless, it's abundantly clear that any fighter that wants to accomplish anything noteworthy at 147lbs will need to work with the PBC at some point.

And we need to remember that Errol Spence Jr. already has three big-money marquee bouts lined-up against credible opposition: Danny Garcia; Shawn Porter; and Keith Thurman. He has options and doesn’t need to face Crawford to earn a decent payday and retain his credibility.

By my own admission, I haven’t reviewed Spence Jr’s non-PPV viewership figures, but here are his PPV stats in comparison to Crawford's:

• Errol Spence Jr. vs. Mikey Garcia (375,000)
• Errol Spence Jr. vs. Shawn Porter (350,000)
• Terence Crawford vs. Amir Khan (150,000)
• Terence Crawford vs. Victor Postol (55,000)

And we know for certain that ESPN’s non-PPV viewing figures are dwarfed by the PBC events televised by Fox. For instance: the Kownacki-Arreola PBC event on Fox peaked at 1.869m, with Crawford’s bout against Kavaliauskas peaking at 1.648m.

The peak viewing figures for the Brook fight are 26% down from the equivalent numbers Crawford achieved for the Benavidez bout (both non-PPV events).

Crawford’s average viewership for the Kavaliauskas bout was 40% less than the equivalent statistic he achieved against Benavidez.

This suggests that Crawford’s viewing figures have declined since his 2018 peak.

Therefore, who doesn’t believe that Spence Jr. deserves to receive 60% of the total purse pot to face Crawford?

[Ruthless-RKO]

By my own admission, I haven’t reviewed Spence Jr’s non-PPV viewership figures, but here are his PPV stats in comparison to Crawford's:

• Errol Spence Jr. vs. Mikey Garcia (375,000)
• Errol Spence Jr. vs. Shawn Porter (350,000)
• Terence Crawford vs. Amir Khan (150,000)
• Terence Crawford vs. Victor Postol (55,000)

And we know for certain that ESPN’s non-PPV viewing figures are dwarfed by the PBC events televised by Fox. For instance: the Kownacki-Arreola PBC event on Fox peaked at 1.869m, with Crawford’s bout against Kavaliauskas peaking at 1.648m.

The peak viewing figures for the Brook fight are 26% down from the equivalent numbers Crawford achieved for the Benavidez bout (both non-PPV events).

Are you gonna compare their non-ppv's numbers then or not?

[margaret thatcher]

I think this is our boi eo's new favourite issue lol

[Enlightened-One]

By my own admission, I haven’t reviewed Spence Jr’s non-PPV viewership figures, but here are his PPV stats in comparison to Crawford's:

• Errol Spence Jr. vs. Mikey Garcia (375,000)
• Errol Spence Jr. vs. Shawn Porter (350,000)
• Terence Crawford vs. Amir Khan (150,000)
• Terence Crawford vs. Victor Postol (55,000)

And we know for certain that ESPN’s non-PPV viewing figures are dwarfed by the PBC events televised by Fox. For instance: the Kownacki-Arreola PBC event on Fox peaked at 1.869m, with Crawford’s bout against Kavaliauskas peaking at 1.648m.

The peak viewing figures for the Brook fight are 26% down from the equivalent numbers Crawford achieved for the Benavidez bout (both non-PPV events).

Are you gonna compare their non-ppv's numbers then or not?

No, because Spence Jr. has become a PPV fighter, whereas Crawford isn’t.

Errol’s future bouts against Garcia, Porter and Thurman will all be PPV events.

I also feel that the sheer volume of points I’ve raised is already a sufficiently compelling argument that doesn’t require any further discussion.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Arum never wanted Crawford vs. Postol on PPV. He was forced to because he had nowhere else to put it as HBO had limited dates and Crawford wanted to fight MORE than TWICE that year..

Let's be fair, Mikey has a bigger following than Spence, it was probably Mikey that brought in most of the buys for that one.

Fair enough, Spence-Porter was considered a good match up, a near 50-50, with many siding with Spence in the end.

Proof that Mikey brought in more PPV buys than Spence, is in the figures stated above. Spence-Garcia did better numbers than Spence-Porter.. Which was considered pre-fight to be the better fight? more competitive? A true welterweight fight?

You'd think Spence-Porter would haev done better numbers..

TR thought Khan's name was still big enough to drive PPV sales.. They were wrong..

[Enlightened-One]

Arum never wanted Crawford vs. Postol on PPV. He was forced to because he had nowhere else to put it as HBO had limited dates and Crawford wanted to fight MORE than TWICE that year..

Let's be fair, Mikey has a bigger following than Spence, it was probably Mikey that brought in most of the buys for that one.

Fair enough, Spence-Porter was considered a good match up, a near 50-50, with many siding with Spence in the end.

TR thought Khan's name was still big enough to drive PPV sales.. They were wrong..

All the numbers, all the ratings, all the titles, all the accomplishments at 147lbs and all the opponent options favour Spence Jr.

Any bout between Spence Jr. and Crawford cannot possibly be regarded as a commercial 50-50 split.

[Ruthless-RKO]

All the numbers, all the ratings, all the titles, all the accomplishments at 147lbs and all the opponent options favour Spence Jr.

Any bout between Spence Jr. and Crawford cannot possibly be regarded as a commercial 50-50 split.

Overall numbers, overall ratings, overall titles, overall accomplishments favour Crawford.

[Enlightened-One]

All the numbers, all the ratings, all the titles, all the accomplishments at 147lbs and all the opponent options favour Spence Jr.

Any bout between Spence Jr. and Crawford cannot possibly be regarded as a commercial 50-50 split.

Overall numbers, overall ratings, overall titles, overall accomplishments favour Crawford.

They don’t, though. Did you read my previous post?

Who has the best resume at 147lbs?

Who has the best opponent options at 147lbs?

Who achieves the biggest PPV buys?

Crawford was great up until August 2017, but he hasn’t achieved anything of any note since that date. He has no one to fight.

Time doesn’t stand still. And Spence Jr. has outperformed Crawford in a variety of ways for the last few years.

If everything that Crawford achieved at 140lbs and below (everything he did more than 3½ years ago) mattered today, from a commercial perspective, then Bob Arum wouldn’t be losing money and nor would he be trying to offload Bud to Al Haymon.

[Cent0089]

50:50, or 60:40 for the winner

[Enlightened-One]

“Man I want Pacquiao, because that’s the fight I’ve been looking forward to for years. And I feel like that’s the one fight that I really want at this point in time.

“To beat Pacquiao and capture that [WBA] belt, that is a good look, given the circumstances of Pacquiao’s last two performances, for me to do something the last fighter, Keith Thurman, couldn’t do [dethrone him]. Yeah, that’s a good look” Crawford told Fight Hype.

“Of course I want the big fights, but I’m cool. I am making good money. I’m fighting good names,

“I know everybody wants me to fight the likes of Danny Garcia, Keith Thurman, Errol Spence and Shawn Porter, but those fights ain’t happened yet.

“So I’ve got to fight the next best opponents there is to fight.

“When these people say… 'he hasn’t fought nobody [at 147lbs]', I just laugh because they don’t know nothing about boxing.

“The guys that I’ve fought [at 147lbs] are world-class fighters. And just because you’re not a fan of that fighter [or] you don’t know too much about that fighter, he’s not world class?” argued Crawford.

“I already said, I want Spence, but that fight ain’t going to happen, because he’s already talking a 60/40 deal.

“And if that 60/40 isn’t in my favour, then that fight is not going to happen! Period!” stated Terence.

“I don’t really care if the [Spence] fight happens or not. The way things have been going the last couple of years, it just rubbed off on me. I don’t care about it no more!

“If we fight, we fight. If we don’t, we don’t. I’m not the one, the [main] reason, why that [never] happened.

“Why would I need Spence? A lot of people say I need Spence. I don’t need [him]...”

[gilgamesh]

All the numbers, all the ratings, all the titles, all the accomplishments at 147lbs and all the opponent options favour Spence Jr.

Any bout between Spence Jr. and Crawford cannot possibly be regarded as a commercial 50-50 split.

Overall numbers, overall ratings, overall titles, overall accomplishments favour Crawford.

They don’t, though. Did you read my previous post?

Who has the best resume at 147lbs?

Who has the best opponent options at 147lbs?

Who achieves the biggest PPV buys?

Crawford was great up until August 2017, but he hasn’t achieved anything of any note since that date. He has no one to fight.

Time doesn’t stand still. And Spence Jr. has outperformed Crawford in a variety of ways for the last few years.

If everything that Crawford achieved at 140lbs and below (everything he did more than 3½ years ago) mattered today, from a commercial perspective, then Bob Arum wouldn’t be losing money and nor would he be trying to offload Bud to Al Haymon.

I'm pretty sure he's factoring in more than their Welterweight careers. Spence only has Welterweight whereas Crawford has previously been a Lightweight and Undisputed Jr. Welterweight Champion.

Not sure he was ever a ratings draw at any of those previous weights, but I think that's what he was going for with the "Overall titles, overall accomplishments" comment.

[gilgamesh]

“Man I want Pacquiao, because that’s the fight I’ve been looking forward to for years. And I feel like that’s the one fight that I really want at this point in time.

“To beat Pacquiao and capture that [WBA] belt, that is a good look, given the circumstances of Pacquiao’s last two performances, for me to do something the last fighter, Keith Thurman, couldn’t do [dethrone him]. Yeah, that’s a good look” Crawford told Fight Hype.

“Of course I want the big fights, but I’m cool. I am making good money. I’m fighting good names,

“I know everybody wants me to fight the likes of Danny Garcia, Keith Thurman, Errol Spence and Shawn Porter, but those fights ain’t happened yet.

“So I’ve got to fight the next best opponents there is to fight.

“When these people say… 'he hasn’t fought nobody [at 147lbs]', I just laugh because they don’t know nothing about boxing.

“The guys that I’ve fought [at 147lbs] are world-class fighters. And just because you’re not a fan of that fighter [or] you don’t know too much about that fighter, he’s not world class?” argued Crawford.

“I already said, I want Spence, but that fight ain’t going to happen, because he’s already talking a 60/40 deal.

“And if that 60/40 isn’t in my favour, then that fight is not going to happen! Period!” stated Terence.

“I don’t really care if the [Spence] fight happens or not. The way things have been going the last couple of years, it just rubbed off on me. I don’t care about it no more!

“If we fight, we fight. If we don’t, we don’t. I’m not the one, the [main] reason, why that [never] happened.

“Why would I need Spence? A lot of people say I need Spence. I don’t need [him]...”

Imagine an NBA team winning the Eastern Conference Finals, and rather than playing in the NBA Finals against the Western Conference Champions they went up against 3 or 4 College teams instead.

That's what this is. That's the legacy he's created for himself so far. He's capable of more, but will he ever demand it of himself? That's the question.

[gilgamesh]

I never understand why nobody ever counters with an offer like "Ok how about this?"

"40/40 split with the other 20% going to the winner" and if that gets shot down "50/40 split with the other 10% going to the winner...so either way you get your 50%, and if you really think you're the top guy you'll get your 60/40 split in the end"

Seems like basic psychology to me. Because at that point you're questioning the guys balls, and confidence in himself so a lot of guys would be more likely to take the offer if you put it like that I'd think.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I'm pretty sure he's factoring in more than their Welterweight careers. Spence only has Welterweight whereas Crawford has previously been a Lightweight and Undisputed Jr. Welterweight Champion.

Not sure he was ever a ratings draw at any of those previous weights, but I think that's what he was going for with the "Overall titles, overall accomplishments" comment.

He was one of the HBO's most viewed boxers. Was consistently doing between 900k to 1.3m viewers. Which was much higher than average.