BoxRec

HeavyHitters wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 15:46 You guys are NUTS for putting Ruiz at #1 after this "questionable" victory over Anthony Joshua. Yes, AJ may have had a panic attack before the fight, but he clearly didn't look right most of the fight. It's still hard for me to fathom how he lost this fight. Maybe he does have a questionable chin, but to go down that easy from some of those punches by Ruiz....... ridiculous!!

I'm guessing Ruiz will lose in his first title defense, or his second, ( depending who he chooses to fight next ). I'm guessing AJ bounces back and regains a title within 2-3 years, and a few years from now, we will all be scratching our heads on what exactly happened that night.

Here's my current top 10:

1. Deontay Wilder
2. Tyson Fury
3. Andy Ruiz Jr.
4. Luis Ortiz
5. Anthony Joshua
6. Dillian Whyte
7. Joseph Parker
8. Daniel Dubois
9. Joe Joyce
10. Michael Hunter/ Oleksandr Usyk

There is nothing questionable about the victory. Joshua lost Ruiz won.

Your top 10 looks pretty good though

C'mon, man. Do you really think AJ has diminished that much as a fighter?!

Yes, Ruiz was 'active' in the fight, and did what he had to do to win. But at some point, AJ should have realized that he needed to go from a "brawling style" to a "win by points, boxing style". He just seemed clueless as to how to keep Ruiz at bay with a jab, and pound him every once in a while with a solid right cross. Move side to side, keep Andy off balance.

As far as my list goes, you could easily make an account for Wilder and Tyson to be tied at #1.

A tongue-tied match-up between Luis Ortis and Andy Ruiz would be very attractive! Ruiz vs. Luis ( or Riuz vs. Ortiz )! ha ha

And who knows, after 4 or 5 fights, we might see that Usyk's style is just too overwhelming for many heavyweights in the top 15. And can see him beating lots of top heavyweights on points alone.

HeavyHitters wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 15:46 You guys are NUTS for putting Ruiz at #1 after this "questionable" victory over Anthony Joshua. Yes, AJ may have had a panic attack before the fight, but he clearly didn't look right most of the fight. It's still hard for me to fathom how he lost this fight. Maybe he does have a questionable chin, but to go down that easy from some of those punches by Ruiz....... ridiculous!!

I'm guessing Ruiz will lose in his first title defense, or his second, ( depending who he chooses to fight next ). I'm guessing AJ bounces back and regains a title within 2-3 years, and a few years from now, we will all be scratching our heads on what exactly happened that night.

Here's my current top 10:

1. Deontay Wilder
2. Tyson Fury
3. Andy Ruiz Jr.
4. Luis Ortiz
5. Anthony Joshua
6. Dillian Whyte
7. Joseph Parker
8. Daniel Dubois
9. Joe Joyce
10. Michael Hunter/ Oleksandr Usyk

Joshua is too low on this list. DD is still too green for #8. Joyce and Hunter are not among the top 10, absolutely.
I expect Usyk will be at least #4 next year. Povetkin should be on the list, too. Pulev ? I am undecided about him..............

Why would the unbeaten heavyweight champion of the world suffer a panic attack at the thought of fighting an obese 25-1 underdog who's a late substitute?

Does that scenario seem remotely realistic?

And if he did, Joshua better reconsider his career choice.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:08 Why would the unbeaten heavyweight champion of the world suffer a panic attack at the thought of fighting an obese 25-1 underdog who's a late substitute?

Does that scenario seem remotely realistic?

And if he did, Joshua better reconsider his career choice.

He seemed pretty confident the day before after the weigh in. He was joking with an interviewer about not keeping his UK fans up too late and laughing about it.

Doesn't mean he didn't have a late panic attack before the fight but kinda rules out all the stuff about the training camp. Maybe the pressure of the whole USA showcase finally got to him late on.

lol at ortiz ahead of joshua

ewenhay wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:18 ...
Maybe the pressure of the whole USA showcase finally got to him late on.

yup, I think he was just trying too hard...

greg wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:21 yup, I think he was just trying too hard...

It's getting silly now though. We've now got people accepting as fact thst Joshua's dad has stated that Joshua was knocked out in sparring and he wanted him pulled out when none of those things have been confirmed.

ewenhay wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:27 It's getting silly now though. We've now got people accepting as fact thst Joshua's dad has stated that Joshua was knocked out in sparring and he wanted him pulled out when none of those things have been confirmed.

there are all sorts of stories, I just don't buy them..

Joshua got beat.

It happens all the time in boxing. One guy wins. The other loses.

Just because it's a classic upset doesn't mean it's necessary to invent imaginative scenarios to explain it away.

Ruiz fought the better fight. It's that simple.

Can we just get back to the rankings on this thread? There are several other threads with all kinds of theories and stories.

Wilder and Fury 1st-2nd either way and both would beat Ruiz so Andy 3rd AJ 4th

My vote:

Ruiz enters at 3
Joshua drops to 4

1. Fury
2. Wilder
3. Ruiz
4. Joshua

The voting is over.

Anthony Joshua drops to #4, Andy Ruiz Jr enters at #3

In this situation, previously ranked at #15 Michael Hunter is out of the list.

Current ranking:

1. Tyson Fury - 27(19) 0 1 - next fight: 15.06.2019 vs Tom Schwarz - 24(16) 0 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #56)

2. Deontay Wilder - 41(40) 0 1 - next fight: TBA

3. Andy Ruiz Jr - 33(22) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

4. Anthony Joshua - 22(21) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

5. Dillian Whyte - 25(18) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 20.07.2019 vs Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 0 0 - (#11)

6. Alexander Povetkin - 34(24) 2(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

7. Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

8. Kubrat Pulev - 27(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Joseph Parker - 25(19) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Adam Kownacki - 19(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 0 0 - next fight: 20.07.2019 vs Dillian Whyte - 25(18) 1(1) 0 - (#5)

12. Filip Hrgović - 8(6) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Dereck Chisora - 30(21) 9(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Agit Kabayel - 19(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Dominic Breazeale - 20(18) 2(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

Next voting will start 15.06.2019 soon after the Tyson Fury vs Tom Schwarz fight.

The only impact from Tyson/Schwarz is if there's another upset. A win for Fury doesn't move anyone.

oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Jun 2019, 21:39 The only impact from Tyson/Schwarz is if there's another upset. A win for Fury doesn't move anyone.

i think that if Fury wins after an unimpressive performance some will try to drop him to #2, #3 or even #4.

dagilechia wrote: ↑07 Jun 2019, 21:41 i think that if Fury wins after an unimpressive performance some will try to drop him to #2, #3 or even #4.

Did Wilder move after his explosive win over Breazeale?

oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Jun 2019, 21:42 Did Wilder move after his explosive win over Breazeale?

no but i think that some people will change their minds if Fury will look bad against Schwarz, we will see. for now i would vote to keep him at #1 though because in my opinion he won vs Wilder, 115-111.

i am sad that people voted Breazeale to #14 instead to #15 after Wilder fight i think it would be better to drop him instead of Hunter.

dagilechia wrote: ↑07 Jun 2019, 21:47 i am sad that people voted Breazeale to #14 instead to #15 after Wilder fight i think it would be better to drop him instead of Hunter.

I thought the same.

dagilechia wrote: ↑07 Jun 2019, 21:47 i am sad that people voted Breazeale to #14 instead to #15 after Wilder fight i think it would be better to drop him instead of Hunter.

It's going to be tough but we're all here to support you through this.

ewenhay wrote: ↑08 Jun 2019, 03:37 It's going to be tough but we're all here to support you through this.

ironbeard wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 19:36 Go fvck yourself. Ruiz beat The Man. Ruiz is now The Man to beat.

The old “you don’t know boxing” horsesh!t excuse for denigrating others’ opinions is lame.

You know what is evidence of idiocy? Downgrading a W because it wasn’t the massive bore Fury or the man who had fought no one until recently is idiotic on its face.

Triangulate until you can’t see straight. Does not matter, Ruiz is the King of the Boxing world, deservedly. There is nothing that you can do about it.

It does not matter if he would not be favored in fights v Wilder, Fury, AJ, Whyte or whoever else. King Ruiz just did what nobody else has accomplished. He is THE MAN until proven otherwise.

Your opinion means nothing.

If Joshua had beaten Wilder and Fury, then "yes" he would be the man, and "yes" Ruiz would deserve to be #1. no doubt about that. But as the ranking of Joshua, Fury and Wilder was subjective, Joshua's loss to Ruiz simply means, that people who thought Joshua were number 1, were wrong in their opinion. I, personally, had him behind Fury when we did the original estimates for the re-birth of this thread.

Now, getting back to wagering. If my opinion means nothing, then I'm happy to give you 2:1 odds on Ruiz beating Wilder or Fury. Seriously, go for it, bet what you want. And if you don't want to take that bet, then it just means, you don't believe your own ranking of Ruiz makes no sense to you.

But seriously, you can only do rankings with the information presented. Joshua losing to Ruiz gives you more information, namely that Ruiz is more difficult + resiliant than previously thought and that Joshua is more limited and chinny than previously thought. You have to factor these things into ranking fighters that have not fought. Clearly that means the newly discovered faults of Joshua means he was a flawed #1, but it certainly doesn't make Ruiz #1 for exposing these faults. If the medium power of Ruiz can topple Joshua, then Wilder's atomic power will blast him away the first time it lands. And Ruiz will simply never get within hitting range of Fury.

Another way of looking at this is......

Imagine we did the initial ratings today. That there was no prior list. There is simply no way you would put Ruiz ahead of Fury or Wilder, unless you are mentally disturbed or a Mexican fan-boy. That's how much sense it makes, putting Ruiz at #1.

dagilechia wrote: ↑07 Jun 2019, 21:37 The voting is over.

Anthony Joshua drops to #4, Andy Ruiz Jr enters at #3

In this situation, previously ranked at #15 Michael Hunter is out of the list.

Current ranking:

1. Tyson Fury - 27(19) 0 1 - next fight: 15.06.2019 vs Tom Schwarz - 24(16) 0 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #56)

2. Deontay Wilder - 41(40) 0 1 - next fight: TBA

3. Andy Ruiz Jr - 33(22) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

4. Anthony Joshua - 22(21) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

5. Dillian Whyte - 25(18) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 20.07.2019 vs Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 0 0 - (#11)

6. Alexander Povetkin - 34(24) 2(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

7. Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

8. Kubrat Pulev - 27(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Joseph Parker - 25(19) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Adam Kownacki - 19(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 0 0 - next fight: 20.07.2019 vs Dillian Whyte - 25(18) 1(1) 0 - (#5)

12. Filip Hrgović - 8(6) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Dereck Chisora - 30(21) 9(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Agit Kabayel - 19(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Dominic Breazeale - 20(18) 2(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

Next voting will start 15.06.2019 soon after the Tyson Fury vs Tom Schwarz fight.

Common sense prevails. Cool.

Hi Dagilechia,

again thanks for doing this with the enthusiasm you do it. Do you think that there's any chance that you can tag on an unordered "candidates list' at the bottom of the list. Just to keep track of prospects and make sure names like Michael Hunter don't get lost next time that someone drops of the list or has a fight that we should've recognised. Perhaps some of the people that got votes on the initial list, but didn't make it to the top 15.

Cheers

conan