BoxRec

There is of course luck in the ring, However, the best guys get luckiest most often.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 08:14 Luck affects pretty much everything in life, boxing is not exempt from the way the outcomes work.. And intention has little to do with it. I can buy a lottery ticket with the intention to win million, that doesn't mean no luck is involved if I win.

You buy the lottery ticket hoping to win the jackpot at incredible odds,you don't really intend to win,you just chance your luck.

Nah, I'm a man on a mission, I go for that win.

The way chance works, and what luck is, is really not logically tied to intention insofar as intending for something to occur means if it does occur luck cannot have been involved. Basically, you can have a bunch of people intending to do the same thing, and it's possible that some of them could be lucky and some unlucky in how things end up. Boxing fans are often very touchy on this subject, but luck is a simple fact of life.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 08:41 Nah, I'm a man on a mission, I go for that win.

The way chance works, and what luck is, is really not logically tied to intention insofar as intending for something to occur means if it does occur luck cannot have been involved. Basically, you can have a bunch of people intending to do the same thing, and it's possible that some of them could be lucky and some unlucky in how things end up. Boxing fans are often very touchy on this subject, but luck is a simple fact of life.

If Rahman and McCall both intended to ko Lewis with single right hands,and both did,would that be luck ?

Could be, just intending to do something doesn't mean no one got lucky. Intention and luck aren't absolutely bound so that intention cancels out luck. In fact it's often or usually the intention to do something that makes lucky outcomes a possibility, because without the intention the action doesn't often get done and there isn't something for luck to act on. And I mean part of luck is external factors that one doesn't control themselves, and are therefore are at play regardless of intention.

This goes way beyond boxing too, luck or'chance' has a big impact on pretty much all realms of life, of course talent, drive, etc all matter a bunch too.

McCall's punch was definitely an overhand right he'd been trying out a lot in round one. He'd been drilled by Stewart to try and take advantage of Lewis' bad habit at the time of dropping his guard. McCall I think would have made it work if not in the 2nd round, but one of the subsequent rounds.

There is a factor of luck involved in everything we do.

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 09:43

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 08:41 Nah, I'm a man on a mission, I go for that win.

The way chance works, and what luck is, is really not logically tied to intention insofar as intending for something to occur means if it does occur luck cannot have been involved. Basically, you can have a bunch of people intending to do the same thing, and it's possible that some of them could be lucky and some unlucky in how things end up. Boxing fans are often very touchy on this subject, but luck is a simple fact of life.

If Rahman and McCall both intended to ko Lewis with single right hands,and both did,would that be luck ?

I used to play snooker with my cousin,i hated playing against him cause he would blast the red around the table hit every cussion then 9 times out of 10 it would drop in a pocket,his intension is to pot the red but the skill wasnt there,is this a lucky shot? I would say so,i used to call him a lucky b@stard he would call it personal skill lol.

If a fighter throws right hand after right hand after right hand and eventually hits the target is it luck or was he looking for the opening all that time? Mayweathers check left hook against hatton springs to mind,he threw it a good few times in that fight and eventually got him. Wilder vs Spitzer he threw that right hand numerous times in the fight and eventually nearly decapitated Spitzer was this luck or was he timing him? I agree that if a fight throws a punch he intends to land it,does he intend to k.o them? I doubt it,ruiz wasnt a lucky shot it was a combo that got AJ.

thechump wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 10:14

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 09:43

If Rahman and McCall both intended to ko Lewis with single right hands,and both did,would that be luck ?

I used to play snooker with my cousin,i hated playing against him cause he would blast the red around the table hit every cussion then 9 times out of 10 it would drop in a pocket,his intension is to pot the red but the skill wasnt there,is this a lucky shot? I would say so,i used to call him a lucky b@stard he would call it personal skill lol.

You must have been pretty crap at snooker if he could beat you playing with those tactics.

Or his cousin is the greatest snooker talent we’ve never heard of!

I mean, 9 times out of 10 his approach worked. That’s some decent scoring

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 08:14 Luck affects pretty much everything in life, boxing is not exempt from the way the outcomes work.. And intention has little to do with it. I can buy a lottery ticket with the intention to win million, that doesn't mean no luck is involved if I win.

You’re equating a knockout punch to winning the lottery? Wow.

Have you ever seen a fighter’s odds going into a contest being 45057474 to 1? Of course not. The two just aren’t comparable.

I don’t believe in a lucky punch. A boxer throws punches at his opponent. Thats his primary purpose. If one of the boxers is 18 stone and he lands a punch on his opponent, then it’s very possible that the punch could drop the opponent or wobble him. I don’t consider that lucky at all.

However, I understand that AJ needs to say something like that in order to sell the fight but also convince himself and the paying audience that he will win the rematch and won’t be dropped repeatedly and stopped again.

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 13:35 Or his cousin is the greatest snooker talent we’ve never heard of!

I mean, 9 times out of 10 his approach worked. That’s some decent scoring

His cousin is John Virgo

liamlion wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 13:37

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 08:14 Luck affects pretty much everything in life, boxing is not exempt from the way the outcomes work.. And intention has little to do with it. I can buy a lottery ticket with the intention to win million, that doesn't mean no luck is involved if I win.

You’re equating a knockout punch to winning the lottery? Wow.

Have you ever seen a fighter’s odds going into a contest being 45057474 to 1? Of course not. The two just aren’t comparable.

I don’t believe in a lucky punch. A boxer throws punches at his opponent. Thats his primary purpose. If one of the boxers is 18 stone and he lands a punch on his opponent, then it’s very possible that the punch could drop the opponent or wobble him. I don’t consider that lucky at all.

However, I understand that AJ needs to say something like that in order to sell the fight but also convince himself and the paying audience that he will win the rematch and won’t be dropped repeatedly and stopped again.

Yep, not comparing the odds, but the intent someone may have, sorry if that's too nuanced for you. Intent in no way means luck is not involved.

It's simply stupid to think boxing is some special flower exempt from chance

A boxer who may train daily for a decade or more,sometimes 2 decades,he practices how to throw punches correctly with the intention of either scoring points or knocking out the opponent,he then scores that ko and it's luck ?

Luck affects pretty much all we do mate, boxing isn't a special snowflake that is exempt. People need to stop looking at it like it's some smear on the fighters, it's just a fact. Of course it doesn't mean training, talent, etc. are not still major factors, obviously they are huge.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 13:26

thechump wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 10:14

I used to play snooker with my cousin,i hated playing against him cause he would blast the red around the table hit every cussion then 9 times out of 10 it would drop in a pocket,his intension is to pot the red but the skill wasnt there,is this a lucky shot? I would say so,i used to call him a lucky b@stard he would call it personal skill lol.

You must have been pretty crap at snooker if he could beat you playing with those tactics.

Haha did i say he beat me lol he never he would just blast the red around the table and sink it some how

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 13:35 Or his cousin is the greatest snooker talent we’ve never heard of!

I mean, 9 times out of 10 his approach worked. That’s some decent scoring

Ye he had more Jam than hartleys

thechump wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 17:58

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 13:26

You must have been pretty crap at snooker if he could beat you playing with those tactics.

Haha did i say he beat me lol he never he would just blast the red around the table and sink it some how

Thank god, I was wondering if you were blind.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 18:30

thechump wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 17:58
Haha did i say he beat me lol he never he would just blast the red around the table and sink it some how

Thank god, I was wondering if you were blind.

Hahaha i hated playin against him tho used to get so angry inside cause he would say its personal skill

Big Lennox should come out of retirement and smash this fraud job by the end of the year.

keirw wrote: ↑18 Aug 2019, 04:51 Joshua's clown comment on Lewis was an honest answer to a question he was asked, something the anti-AJ mob have been saying they wanted for years.

Now you have it you are still digging him out? What do you people want?

It was a very small part of a long and in depth interview. Let's not forget that Fury and his fans(or family, never quite sure) have spent entire evenings laying into Lewis on Twitter.

I agree the 'lucky punch' line is wrong, but that left hook to the top of the head did turn the fight around and Joshua did try to fight himself back into the fight right up until his body just gave up on him.

Honestly, would it have been better if he went down from that left hook in the 3rd and not get back up?

No it would be better if he could actually box and slip left hooks, like Ruiz did 4 seconds previous.

His powers of recuperation are bad to say the least. It’s a good job Wlad let him chill for two rounds. He could have gone for an asprin and a coffee and Wlad wouldn’t have minded.

That's not exactly what happened, Wlad was loading up left hooks after dropping him and trying to take him out that round, and also had been going after him in the 5th. When Wlad didn't finish him in the 6th Wlad eased up to just try to win the rounds though

To be fair at times through the rounds after the Wlad KD I was going 'ref should stop this', AJ was in cloud cuckoo for ages...

Think the 'punch from the gods' comment was just silly though. The two that did for Lewis (McCall and Rahman) were both absolute howitzers - this was a short choppy hook. OK it landed to the top of his head - he is 6'6" so not sure why he was down there... Basically never saw any top guys troubled with punches like that in Lewis' day.

For AJ to say it was a single lucky punch either came from a place that he is in denial about how he lost, or that he had Lewis' two losses in mind and his ego wouldn't let him be below that. Went down big time in my estimation with that interview.

I have never believed this AJ media persona, especially given his dalliances with the Police in his late teens, but there's a difference between being an angry and nasty guy, and talking crap.