BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 09:40 Which may well be true. There's almost certainly has been technically better fighters in the past that don't get nearly as much recognition as those 3, but it's who you beat, and how you look beating 'em that stands out in the memories of people.

Right now Loma just doesn't have as many wins to be able to stack up with guys like that, and it's unlikely he'll be able to, but he'll be a joy to watch all the way nevertheless.

Got it. Based on overall accomplishments I am with you. But we can agree then that Lomachenko is the best amateur boxer of all time. As far as impressive stoppages, when was the last time you've seen a fighter with 11 pro fights make 4 top level, 2 of them elite with 1 also being a 2 time Olympic gold medalist quit on their stool?

Accomplishments aside,,,just watching him display his craft against who he has been against thus far is enough for me to conclude that he's the best I've seen.

Castillo would kick his ass.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 09:25

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 09:22

Out of curiosity, what fighters do you see as better?

Floyd, Pacquiao, Hopkins

Loma still has a ways to go to match any of those 3, and he may not even definitively wind up as the top talent of this current generation that he has a tenuous grasp on the #1 slot on. Usyk, Spence and Crawford all on his heels.

I've never seen better footwork than Loma's though. The fluidity of his movement is something to behold for sure.

No way is pacquaio a better technician, that's just silly.

Oops. Missread.

Part of the problem with comparing Floyd and Loma is that Floyd turned pro at age 19, Loma at age 25. By the time Floyd was 25 he had already complete cleaned out his first weight class with several wins over elite opponents, and then moved up to face another elite opponent in JLC.

Loma has unreal skills but he's 31 and you could argue he moved up in weight twice already without ever facing a real elite opponent until he got to 135 and fought Linares.

jujigatame wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 10:43 Part of the problem with comparing Floyd and Loma is that Floyd turned pro at age 19, Loma at age 25. By the time Floyd was 25 he had already complete cleaned out his first weight class with several wins over elite opponents, and then moved up to face another elite opponent in JLC.

Loma has unreal skills but he's 31 and you could argue he moved up in weight twice already without ever facing a real elite opponent until he got to 135 and fought Linares.

Gary Russell Jr not elite?

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 01:15

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Sep 2019, 15:24

Poor little loma getting compared to giant Crawford. You guys are ridiculous.

I never said Crawford was huge. He isn't. He's just not fighting anyone naturally 1-2 divisions heavier than he is, nor does he have the quality name's on his resume.

Crawford is awesome. He just gets a bit too much credit for cleaning out a weak division, and hasn't really made much noise at welterweight yet. Until Crawford actually does something to prove otherwise, such as beating the other elite welters, or beating a good fighter who's naturally bigger than him, then he's not getting ranked above Loma, Canelo, Usyk, Golovkin or Inoue on my list.

It's my list. It's subjective. If you disagree with me, that's fine. I just don't see it as a fair critique, to mark one fighter down vs another, based on showing more vulnerabilities, when that fighter has been fighting a higher level of opposition.

Jorge Linares also beat Luke Campbell, so I'm gonna go ahead and rank Linares and Lomachenko on equal footing p4p, because they both beat a fighter who was "naturally bigger than them," without regard for facts, like the fact that Campbell is a lightweight, and the fact that Campbell is not even that well-rated, despite his height. While I'm at it, the 11 fighters who beat 6' 1" Ali Funeka are all gods, because he was 6' 1", and therefore several divisions naturally bigger than the division he competed in. Jamal James is 6' 2", welterweight Yordenis Ugas beat him, Ugas is the goat. This is aside from the fact that when Ugas was born, he only weighed in the 7-pound division, and now he's beating dudes who are 6' 2" and who are naturally the size of cruiserweights. That's why you have to rank Ugas even higher than Lomachenko p4p. Guillermo Jones is a 6' 4" heavyweight. Super welterweight David Noel beat Guillermo Jones, who was naturally 5 divisions above him. This is why you really can't rank Lomachenko above David Noel p4p. It's all about the fake concept of whatever division you want to tell yourself a fighter belongs at, meanwhile ignoring the division he actually competes at, and his actually ranking within that division.

I've got to, again, agree with the OP on this one. Lomachenko fans are annoying as f*ck. They apparently think they have to make-up their own reality and logical system in order to even attribute any accomplishments to him. It would be weird if Pacquiao fans had conjectured that he beat a fighter who was naturally 7 divisions bigger than him, but I've never seen that stupid-ass argument being made, because boxing fans weren't stupid as f*ck until Lomachenko came around.

The fact is: Lomachenko, who had been steadily campaigning at lightweight for 4 straight fights and who is a typical height for a lightweight, and who weighed-in a quarter pound heavier than Campbell, beat the then #5 lightweight -- a guy with two other losses to lightweights who has a relatively thin resume in which he's beat a couple of opponents who were ranked in the #20-35 ranges. In his entire career, Campbell has never beaten a divisional top 15 opponent. This is serious equivalent to if Andre Ward beat Thomas Oosthuizen (6' 4") at 168 and people acted like that win was an accomplishment worthy of anointing a fighter p4p #1 status.

victor-romeo wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 10:54

jujigatame wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 10:43 Part of the problem with comparing Floyd and Loma is that Floyd turned pro at age 19, Loma at age 25. By the time Floyd was 25 he had already complete cleaned out his first weight class with several wins over elite opponents, and then moved up to face another elite opponent in JLC.

Loma has unreal skills but he's 31 and you could argue he moved up in weight twice already without ever facing a real elite opponent until he got to 135 and fought Linares.

Gary Russell Jr not elite?

Russell is an odd unique situation but I find it difficult to call him an elite opponent when Loma was the first significant fight of his whole career.

Loma is very very good and probably an easy HOF'er, but to me he is not a great pro yet.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 13:49 Loma is very very good and probably an easy HOF'er, but to me he is not a great pro yet.

Agree. He has a lot of challenges ahead of him if he wanna be one of greatest. He is one of my favorite boxers now, but i do not like the hype

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 13:49 Loma is very very good and probably an easy HOF'er, but to me he is not a great pro yet.

Come on man lets keep it real. guy has 3 belts at lighweight and defeated Jorge Linares..

victor-romeo wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 15:55

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 13:49 Loma is very very good and probably an easy HOF'er, but to me he is not a great pro yet.

Come on man lets keep it real. guy has 3 belts at lighweight and defeated Jorge Linares..

He won a tough fight over Linares
He won handily over Pedraza
He won a competitive but clear decision over Campbell

That is what he did to get his 3 belts. It's very good but not ATG at all.

hahah I think if he trims down a little he can beat Spence on points..

Spence would sodomize Loma

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:03 Spence would sodomize Loma

LMFAO! I agree with the sentiment!

Thatcher is on a wind up surely

Nice to see this post has gathered steam good reading for a Wednesday LOL

I'm not on the windup about his style. I find it so frustrating to watch when he has a guy hurt but then ends the round by moving backwards and not throwing. He's done it several fights now. He himself said he doesn't care about how he wins, and simply that he wins. Fans usually hate that but seem to give Loma a pass.

kbackup408 wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:12 Thatcher is on a wind up surely

Nice to this post has gathered steam good reading for a Wednesday LOL

AKA JJ a windup?? Preposterous.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:14 I'm not on the windup about his style. I find it so frustrating to watch when he has a guy hurt but then ends the round by moving backwards and not throwing. He's done it several fights now. He himself said he doesn't care about how he wins, and simply that he wins. Fans usually hate that but seem to give Loma a pass.

Why expose yourself to risk by going for a ko when you have the fight won already? Lewis vs Tua was an example of that. Isn't winning the name of the game?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:14 I'm not on the windup about his style. I find it so frustrating to watch when he has a guy hurt but then ends the round by moving backwards and not throwing. He's done it several fights now. He himself said he doesn't care about how he wins, and simply that he wins. Fans usually hate that but seem to give Loma a pass.

^ I agree with you completely it might be arrogance on his part but the fella is special and gets a pass the boxing community gave Roy Jones Jr a pass when he was on his cocky/arrogant bravado

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:15

kbackup408 wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:12 Thatcher is on a wind up surely

Nice to this post has gathered steam good reading for a Wednesday LOL

AKA JJ a windup?? Preposterous.

oogbie long time no see is it too early to get excited for the MMA on the weekend haha

I think going for a measured kill of a hurt opponent is less risky than backing off and letting them recover.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:21 I think going for a measured kill of a hurt opponent is less risky than backing off and letting them recover.

I'm not so sure he had Campbell on the verge. Shook, yes. On the verge of KO? Nope.

kbackup408 wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:18

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:15

AKA JJ a windup?? Preposterous.

oogbie long time no see is it too early to get excited for the MMA on the weekend haha

Not if you're into it it's not. Why a long time? We've both been pretty active, no?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:14 I'm not on the windup about his style. I find it so frustrating to watch when he has a guy hurt but then ends the round by moving backwards and not throwing. He's done it several fights now. He himself said he doesn't care about how he wins, and simply that he wins. Fans usually hate that but seem to give Loma a pass.

Were you a Floyd fan?

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:38

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 16:14 I'm not on the windup about his style. I find it so frustrating to watch when he has a guy hurt but then ends the round by moving backwards and not throwing. He's done it several fights now. He himself said he doesn't care about how he wins, and simply that he wins. Fans usually hate that but seem to give Loma a pass.

Were you a Floyd fan?

Good point.