BoxRec

Its always made me smile , topics about punchers ,, I do believe you can take a guy who punches with the weight of a feather and train him through speed , technique , , timing , ect ect to hit a lot harder ,,, But just has you begin to clap yourself on the back for a job well done , In walks this guy who just hits harder with virtually no training ,

coneye wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 00:30 Its always made me smile , topics about punchers ,, I do believe you can take a guy who punches with the weight of a feather and train him through speed , technique , , timing , ect ect to hit a lot harder ,,, But just has you begin to clap yourself on the back for a job well done , In walks this guy who just hits harder with virtually no training ,

True. Punch power is overrated though. I walked into they gym with big power, won my amateur fights by kayo and had people talking me up but achieved fornicate all because my mindset was all wrong and I jacked to do something else.

Fury had a championship mindset from being a boy. He was unbelievably driven and for a guy with well documented mental problems his apparent confidence around other fighters is unique.

Boxingcutsman wrote: ↑16 Sep 2019, 19:40 A lot is down to genetics, and to say it’s not or isn’t part is untrue. A coupe of examples are :
Asian people are genetically fleshy around their middles and store fat there
black people are either very naturally skinny or quite heavily muscular depending on where there heritage is from, for example Nigerians are very heavily built around their chest and shoulders and thicker set naturally whilst Ghanaians, Ethiopians, Sudanese, Somalians are more naturally skinner in size, whilst Jamaicans/Caribbean/West Indians usually seem to be more ripped naturally and look heavily muscle/dense tone and definition, you can train hard and be in amazing condition and be able to fight 15 rounds but not look aesthetically great, like more recently Ruiz, Fury, even domestically big John McDermott or look in great shape to the uneducated that seem to post so much on here and be ripped to shreds like and again I say recently Joshua, W.Klitschko, even Conner McGregor in UFC but are blowing out their ar se after a coupe of rounds, there is a huge difference, you can do so much with diet, training, S&C but like being a big puncher you can add a small % with correct technique and exercises but your either heavy handed or your not, 100% it’s alot down to genetics and they have a massive part to play in how far aesthetically a person body type and body fat/mass index can go

Agreed. Old school trainers, and some new ones, don't recommend weight training as too much muscle can affect your stamina and endurance. If Fury went onto a heavy weight training regime and re-appeared packed with muscle it wouldn't make him a better fighter but would no doubt make his stamina worse.

Controversial wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 05:46

Boxingcutsman wrote: ↑16 Sep 2019, 19:40 A lot is down to genetics, and to say it’s not or isn’t part is untrue. A coupe of examples are :
Asian people are genetically fleshy around their middles and store fat there
black people are either very naturally skinny or quite heavily muscular depending on where there heritage is from, for example Nigerians are very heavily built around their chest and shoulders and thicker set naturally whilst Ghanaians, Ethiopians, Sudanese, Somalians are more naturally skinner in size, whilst Jamaicans/Caribbean/West Indians usually seem to be more ripped naturally and look heavily muscle/dense tone and definition, you can train hard and be in amazing condition and be able to fight 15 rounds but not look aesthetically great, like more recently Ruiz, Fury, even domestically big John McDermott or look in great shape to the uneducated that seem to post so much on here and be ripped to shreds like and again I say recently Joshua, W.Klitschko, even Conner McGregor in UFC but are blowing out their ar se after a coupe of rounds, there is a huge difference, you can do so much with diet, training, S&C but like being a big puncher you can add a small % with correct technique and exercises but your either heavy handed or your not, 100% it’s alot down to genetics and they have a massive part to play in how far aesthetically a person body type and body fat/mass index can go

Agreed. Old school trainers, and some new ones, don't recommend weight training as too much muscle can affect your stamina and endurance. If Fury went onto a heavy weight training regime and re-appeared packed with muscle it wouldn't make him a better fighter but would no doubt make his stamina worse.

Yeah spot on. The genetics thing is absolutely true. Jamaica's population is tiny but they have so many sprinting champs. Apparently their Achilles is bigger than the average human, giving them more spring

How someone's body looks does not determine their fitness. Some footballers are shredded to bits and other look like they have naturally dad body... both equally fit, literally matters jot how someone looks.

Listen to talk sport now. 11:30 am

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 06:00

Controversial wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 05:46

Agreed. Old school trainers, and some new ones, don't recommend weight training as too much muscle can affect your stamina and endurance. If Fury went onto a heavy weight training regime and re-appeared packed with muscle it wouldn't make him a better fighter but would no doubt make his stamina worse.

Yeah spot on. The genetics thing is absolutely true. Jamaica's population is tiny but they have so many sprinting champs. Apparently their Achilles is bigger than the average human, giving them more spring

How someone's body looks does not determine their fitness. Some footballers are shredded to bits and other look like they have naturally dad body... both equally fit, literally matters jot how someone looks.

It's the length of the shin bone apparently, means the tendon is longer, and also enables greater stride length.

Yes and again it shows how genetics play a role has they also have naturally faster twitch muscle fibres, naturally anaerobic, short burst explosiveness which is what makes them naturally great sprinters, over the short distance

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 07:19

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 06:00

Yeah spot on. The genetics thing is absolutely true. Jamaica's population is tiny but they have so many sprinting champs. Apparently their Achilles is bigger than the average human, giving them more spring

How someone's body looks does not determine their fitness. Some footballers are shredded to bits and other look like they have naturally dad body... both equally fit, literally matters jot how someone looks.

It's the length of the shin bone apparently, means the tendon is longer, and also enables greater stride length.

It's interesting. Even look at Usain Bolt, the greatest ever sprinter. In body terms, he might as well be the sprinters Tyson Fury. He does not resemble a sprinters ripped, bulked, stocky, short figures.. yet... gold gold gold gold

Genetics are far more important in closed skill weights and measures sports like weightlifting and running than they are in boxing.

Over the last 20 years or so there has been an emergence of trainers who are training boxers like weights and measures men to the detriment of skill development.

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 08:26

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 07:19

It's the length of the shin bone apparently, means the tendon is longer, and also enables greater stride length.

It's interesting. Even look at Usain Bolt, the greatest ever sprinter. In body terms, he might as well be the sprinters Tyson Fury. He does not resemble a sprinters ripped, bulked, stocky, short figures.. yet... gold gold gold gold

Usain's biomechanics and fibre composition are almost perfect for sprinting. That is proven and irrefutable.

JimStone wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 08:54

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 08:26

It's interesting. Even look at Usain Bolt, the greatest ever sprinter. In body terms, he might as well be the sprinters Tyson Fury. He does not resemble a sprinters ripped, bulked, stocky, short figures.. yet... gold gold gold gold

Usain's biomechanics and fibre composition are almost perfect for sprinting. That is proven and irrefutable.

Now, yes but when he came around he was seen as a freak of nature and an anomaly in the world of sprinting. No champion sprinter before was ever built like him. Just proves that perceptions can be deceiving. People are assuming someone someone like AJ should be fitter than someone like Fury or Ruiz but that's simply not the case

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 08:26

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 07:19

It's the length of the shin bone apparently, means the tendon is longer, and also enables greater stride length.

It's interesting. Even look at Usain Bolt, the greatest ever sprinter. In body terms, he might as well be the sprinters Tyson Fury. He does not resemble a sprinters ripped, bulked, stocky, short figures.. yet... gold gold gold gold

Bolts build is ripped to fornicate, he's very lean, he also has huge upper body, and a tiny waist, he's only 94kg and 6 foot 5, but very powerful.

https://images.app.goo.gl/1hvag6NSUDFNsw9r9

Most top flight sprinters are around 6 foot.

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 09:12

JimStone wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 08:54


Usain's biomechanics and fibre composition are almost perfect for sprinting. That is proven and irrefutable.

Now, yes but when he came around he was seen as a freak of nature and an anomaly in the world of sprinting. No champion sprinter before was ever built like him. Just proves that perceptions can be deceiving. People are assuming someone someone like AJ should be fitter than someone like Fury or Ruiz but that's simply not the case

Define fitter...

Is Usain bolt fitter than Federer?

All that matters is fit for your chosen sport. Bolt and Mo farah were both supremely fit, but built for different disciplines.

Boxingcutsman wrote: ↑16 Sep 2019, 19:40 A lot is down to genetics, and to say it’s not or isn’t part is untrue. A coupe of examples are :
Asian people are genetically fleshy around their middles and store fat there
black people are either very naturally skinny or quite heavily muscular depending on where there heritage is from, for example Nigerians are very heavily built around their chest and shoulders and thicker set naturally whilst Ghanaians, Ethiopians, Sudanese, Somalians are more naturally skinner in size, whilst Jamaicans/Caribbean/West Indians usually seem to be more ripped naturally and look heavily muscle/dense tone and definition, you can train hard and be in amazing condition and be able to fight 15 rounds but not look aesthetically great, like more recently Ruiz, Fury, even domestically big John McDermott or look in great shape to the uneducated that seem to post so much on here and be ripped to shreds like and again I say recently Joshua, W.Klitschko, even Conner McGregor in UFC but are blowing out their ar se after a coupe of rounds, there is a huge difference, you can do so much with diet, training, S&C but like being a big puncher you can add a small % with correct technique and exercises but your either heavy handed or your not, 100% it’s alot down to genetics and they have a massive part to play in how far aesthetically a person body type and body fat/mass index can go

Pretty big generalisations there. Not all Asians are fleshy around the middle and not all Nigerians and West Africans are tremendously well built. Obviously you have guys like Joshua and in the UFC Ngannou who are jacked but you also have a lot of fat guys from that part of the world aswell who aren't naturally built well.

Not sure why you're saying that the likes of Ghanaians, Sudanese, Kenyans, Somali's and Ethiopians are all like whippets either.

It's a definite fact that east Africa rules when it comes to distance running and thus a lot of them are skinnier types their and there's probably an evolutionary purpose to that, but I don't know how Ghanaians feature in that as it's a completely different part of Africa. Ghanaians are west Africans like Nigerians.

Regarding Conor McGregor, he's not even that big, he just has a relatively low body fat %.

Regarding boxing or any other contact sport name me any Ghanaians heavier than at a push light-middleweight ? Because I can name you plenty in the lower weights recently and from years gone by. Because you said you don’t know why I thought all them were like whippets, again look at them other countries I named and their representatives at athletics and any sport and you can see the vast genetic make up of them places, of course you will have some that don’t fit the exact same mold but we are talking about majority and genetics which no matter how much you would like to you can’t deny or argue with mate.

Regarding again boxing and contact sport I can also name other from west Africa, Ike ibeabuchi (Nigeria) Derrick chisora (Zimbabwe) and others again I can name who like I said are very heavy chested, shoulders and top of arms, again there will be some from them parts of the country that are not all same but again majority and genetics.

Same has the explosive, fast twitch and natural ripped looked and muscle density and fibres of Jamaicans and Caribbean’s, usain bolt, Nicholas Walters (boxer) Julian Jackson, and many others I can name that are either very fast sprinters or big punchers and ripped looking due to there muscle density and fast twitch muscle fibres.

And again like western somans, maouri’s are in the majority, heavily thick set, powerfully built people, again demonstrating genetics.

Regarding Asians look at Amir Khan, virjinder singh to name just two, again many others in different sports I can name, genetically they hold flesh around their middles more and some even on their chest, again there are exceptions but we are talking about genetics and majority of people not minority of people from them places and their body types.

And regarding Conner McGregor no one was talking about size we was taking about looking in shape and ripped but blowing and even looking atheistically and conditioned doesn’t always mean you are, not being able to maintain a output in their sport unlike people like Ruiz jr, Fury, Big John McDermott and again many others I can name, who don’t look atheistically great but are very well conditioned athletes, so your reply and what your point is I don’t understand mate if you could let me know as I’ve just tried to answer you with examples of what I meant .

I'm not saying that genetics don't factor into things at all, as I even said that guys like Joshua and Ngannou are naturally more muscular. I'm also willing to bet that Joshua lives a cleaner lifestyle outside of the ring and eats better than Fury does on top of having more muscle to begin with. We already know that in the past Fury has eaten and drunken himself to death before losing all that weight.

I don't buy that McDermott being a tub of lard is purely down to having shitty genetics when it comes to aesthetics either.

Pretty much no one is genetically a tub of lard. That's just a fat guy excuse.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 14:51 Pretty much no one is genetically a tub of lard. That's just a fat guy excuse.

Fat guys can’t generally do 12x3’s with world class opposition.

Boxingcutsman wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 08:15 Yes and again it shows how genetics play a role has they also have naturally faster twitch muscle fibres, naturally anaerobic, short burst explosiveness which is what makes them naturally great sprinters, over the short distance

I thought that had been disproved recently?

I’ve always thought the reason why Jamaica produced so many good sprinters in recent years ( it’s not like they’ve absolutely dominated sprinting historically ) is because of a simple case of it being massively popular there. Chuck in a seemingly national sponsored doping campaign and it starts to make sense why they do so well in that distance.

A better example would be the New Zealand rugby team. Mix and match of all shapes and sizes and backgrounds, yet they dominate rugby union by and large. It’s because they are passed a rugby ball before they can crawl it is everything in that country. Nothing to do with genetics really.

Popularity counts. I keep reading how powerful and strong west African, people from the Caribbean and Polynesians all are but how many of them have been crowned worlds strongest man? Especially when compared to how many people from Iceland have won that title. Are Icelandic people generally just much stronger than everyone else or is because they all absolutely love strongman competition?

Obviously genetics helps to a degree but it’s really on an individual by individual basis. Popularity of the sport in question where the person comes from, economic factors ( poor people tend to make better and successful athletes, especially in boxing ) and the individuals genetic advantages. Mentality is bigger imo, especially at the highest levels.

Has Fury been getting tested since Wilder?

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 15:43

Boxingcutsman wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 08:15 Yes and again it shows how genetics play a role has they also have naturally faster twitch muscle fibres, naturally anaerobic, short burst explosiveness which is what makes them naturally great sprinters, over the short distance

I thought that had been disproved recently?

I’ve always thought the reason why Jamaica produced so many good sprinters in recent years ( it’s not like they’ve absolutely dominated sprinting historically ) is because of a simple case of it being massively popular there. Chuck in a seemingly national sponsored doping campaign and it starts to make sense why they do so well in that distance.

A better example would be the New Zealand rugby team. Mix and match of all shapes and sizes and backgrounds, yet they dominate rugby union by and large. It’s because they are passed a rugby ball before they can crawl it is everything in that country. Nothing to do with genetics really.

Popularity counts. I keep reading how powerful and strong west African, people from the Caribbean and Polynesians all are but how many of them have been crowned worlds strongest man? Especially when compared to how many people from Iceland have won that title. Are Icelandic people generally just much stronger than everyone else or is because they all absolutely love strongman competition?

Obviously genetics helps to a degree but it’s really on an individual by individual basis. Popularity of the sport in question where the person comes from, economic factors ( poor people tend to make better and successful athletes, especially in boxing ) and the individuals genetic advantages. Mentality is bigger imo, especially at the highest levels.

Yes that is a factor of course, but where sprinting is concerned there are some very specific physiological advantages conferred on some populations.

I wonder why people seem to get so much more emotionally upset when people suggest the same may be true of cognitive advantages?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 16:02 I wonder why people seem to get so much more emotionally upset when people suggest the same may be true of cognitive advantages?

Things that make you go "hmmmm..."

Case in point?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑17 Sep 2019, 16:02 I wonder why people seem to get so much more emotionally upset when people suggest the same may be true of cognitive advantages?

Is there any evidence for that though?