BoxRec

Loki wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 09:40

BoxFrancis wrote: ↑21 Mar 2020, 19:25 He ended the longest reign in heavyweight history Wladimir held the titles and was unbeaten for 9 years. Furys the biggest and the best I can’t rate these 6’3 240lbs heavyweights above fury because I know they couldn’t beat him. Just my opinion. Before the rematch wilder was the most devestating hitter in history and know after Furys stepped to him and beat him up he’s a bum who couldn’t box. Near enough every previous hw champion was picking Wilder to win the fight. He ain’t no bum he just came unstuck against an elite level fighter.

Dude; you literally sound about 15 years old. There is so much incorrect with this post, I can’t be bothered to comment.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:36 There was still generally only ever 1 Champion in that era of Boxing though, and yeah the WBO certainly had some damn solid Champions even before they became a standard part of Boxing's political makeup, I wasn't criticizing any of the Champions, just kinda pointing out the history of the WBO itself, and how at the time of Wlad's reign with it, he was essentially still seen by most as a Contender and a Heavyweight Champion to be, rather than a reigning Champion.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:26

polecateddy wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:14 These discussions always seem to be Wlad this and Wlad that. To my mind the generations before Wlad were much better fighters, with Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, etc. With a few exceptions the Wlad and beyond generations are pretty weak. I’d think it be fair to say that a fighter as weak on the fundamentals as Wilder, would not have got much past danger man status in other eras. Yes Fury is a terrific heavyweight. No of course he isn’t the best ever :)

I think you mean the Wlad and beyond generation singular, because we haven't yet gotten 2 generations beyond him.

But yeah I don't think many would consider him one of the best ever. He might be Top 10 on some lists, but that's a stretch.

He had one of the longest reigns ever though so that's something worth nothing I guess.

BoxFrancis wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:56

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:26

I think you mean the Wlad and beyond generation singular, because we haven't yet gotten 2 generations beyond him.

But yeah I don't think many would consider him one of the best ever. He might be Top 10 on some lists, but that's a stretch.

He had one of the longest reigns ever though so that's something worth nothing I guess.

He’s top 5 easy

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:53

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:36 There was still generally only ever 1 Champion in that era of Boxing though, and yeah the WBO certainly had some damn solid Champions even before they became a standard part of Boxing's political makeup, I wasn't criticizing any of the Champions, just kinda pointing out the history of the WBO itself, and how at the time of Wlad's reign with it, he was essentially still seen by most as a Contender and a Heavyweight Champion to be, rather than a reigning Champion.

You’re right to a certain degree. There have always been multiple versions of the world heavyweight title and it was the media that chose to recognise the most prestigious holder, which is reflected by the history books.

So yes, the history books will only ever recall what the media wrote about.

For example: there was nothing legitimate about Tommy Hearns and Ray Leonard’s 168lbs title reigns, but the history books and the media legitimise them and the public refuse to question this perception.

So I basically agree with you, but there have always been multiple versions of the world heavyweight title and it’s only the media’s perception that counts.

Lennox Lewis was considered the "real" world heavyweight champion at the time of Wladimir Klitschko's title reign.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 16:56 Call me crazy but when you go life and death with otto wallin 2 fights ago maybe its premature to call someone the goat.....

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 16:56 Call me crazy but when you go life and death with otto wallin 2 fights ago maybe its premature to call someone the goat.....

bigjack wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 17:32

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 16:56 Call me crazy but when you go life and death with otto wallin 2 fights ago maybe its premature to call someone the goat.....

He beat Wlad who was at the end of the line ,and then beat Wilder who had very little actual boxing ability,top ten is crazy talk.

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 18:06 You don't have to be the best to be able to beat the best. Styles make fights and Fury is as awkward as they come, not only for his sheer size but his unorthodox style. It may be seen as crazy talk but a focused Fury, as he was in the Klitschko/Wilder fights, would give many a HW in history trouble.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 16:56 Call me crazy but when you go life and death with otto wallin 2 fights ago maybe its premature to call someone the goat.....

adislav123 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 18:38 louis, liston, ali, foreman, holmes, tyson, bowe, both klits and dozens of other top 10 heavyweights (you name em') of their respective era on their best day in their prime thru history.

put in a fantasy match up against fury they would be all competitive competitive opponents.

HE HAS THE TOOLS and should be convinced to hypthetically have BEATEN THEM ALL& they for sure put back in their prime/brought back to life in their best shape would too all be sure minded to fvck fury up.

DEFINITELY ALL WERE HELLUVA FIGHTERS POSSESSED THE TOOLS TO PUT FURY IN A WORLD OF TROUBLE as well possibly beating him/definitely, given their best effort, putting up a helluva fight to consider for us who would've come out on top, them or fury.

but that's just opinions.

record resume wise he's nowhere near top ten, how could he yet?

history making/championship success wisebeating considered unbeatable, longest ever reigning champion vlad, beating twice "the hardest hitting heavyweight in history" wilder.. he is up there, top whatever for the record books but who gives a poo bout that.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:58

BoxFrancis wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:56
He’s top 5 easy

I don't see it. Lower Top 10 possibly. Top 5. Absolutely not.

BoxFrancis wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 19:44

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 11:58

I don't see it. Lower Top 10 possibly. Top 5. Absolutely not.

Stats say otherwise

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 16:56 Call me crazy but when you go life and death with otto wallin 2 fights ago maybe its premature to call someone the goat.....

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 17:28

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑23 Mar 2020, 16:56 Call me crazy but when you go life and death with otto wallin 2 fights ago maybe its premature to call someone the goat.....

You'd have a point if Otter wasn't also an ATG

ewenhay wrote: ↑24 Mar 2020, 11:37 That's how a lot of hypothetical arguments are based on here.

The best version of the guy they like versus the worst version of the guy they don't.

Plus, I don't think you can rank heavyweights historically using a hypothetical argument based on size of current heavyweights. It's completely dismissive and disrespectful to write off someone's entire career based on the fact that people have got bigger over the last 100 years.

candyslim wrote: ↑24 Mar 2020, 13:30

ewenhay wrote: ↑24 Mar 2020, 11:37 That's how a lot of hypothetical arguments are based on here.

The best version of the guy they like versus the worst version of the guy they don't.

Plus, I don't think you can rank heavyweights historically using a hypothetical argument based on size of current heavyweights. It's completely dismissive and disrespectful to write off someone's entire career based on the fact that people have got bigger over the last 100 years.

You're talking sense there ewenhay. Are you ok?

Just kidding.

I've always maintained that Marciano would have been destroyed by Frazier simply because of the 30lb weight difference (a huge disparity at 185 vs 215) but that doesn't alter the fact that Rocky was one hellova fighter. Same goes for Dempsey - I know he was dwarfed by Willard but as big is he was Willard was no athlete, not like the top rated guys of 6' 6"+ today. He was probably world champion because of his size advantage alone.

I've also always respected and defended the old timers from a century ago, because people like Nat Fleischer rated them ATGs and you gotta respect that he knew a bit about boxing, even if I never actually saw them in action,
Then you get to see some grainy footage of them doing their stuff and they can look slow as molasses and painfully crude. Best maybe to honour their legends and just leave it at that.