BoxRec

If he would've beat all those other guys then no doubt he's underachieved at the moment relative to what his ability would allow him to achieve, whatever that ability may be or not be. Like I said, imagine how big KTFO 'ing Jay in an undisputed , undefeated fight woulda been

He's also got excellent length and one of the fastest hands in the division i think btw

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 10:21 But instead we've this kind of threads from AJ fanboys, who are trying to slander Wilder all the time. I am really sick of AJ fanboys, and I don't even like Wilder.

If you didn't like Wilder why did you rank him as the number 2 Heavyweight in the world after his disastrous loss to Fury?
Give it a rest mate.
You are calling people liars whilst coming out with that whopper.



Now as for your other post which you claim I didn't read, because it's obviously a work of brilliance that will convince people to see how wonderful Wilder is and how the blame lies equally if not more with Joshua:

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 12:47 Now you are blaming Wilder for not fighting against AJ?
That's both of their problem, not Wilder's only.

It’s obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense the issue is Wilder’s handlers.

None of them agreed, there are 2 major belts; WBC and WBA. And Wilder had one of them, IBF and WBO are not so important.

DELUDED
As people keep pointing out to you, IBF and WBO have been established belts for quite some time.
At Heavyweight The IBF is often regarded as the most respected atm due to its consistency of rules.
The WBC and WBA which you regard highly based on long history, in recent history are doing their best to tank their reputation at Heavyweight. See WBA multiple titles and rankings. See WBC and their consistent ignoring of their own rules to create two sham mandatories for Wilder. Without even mentioning the franchise champion nonsense.

AJ: We will fight at England and with reality contracts. (70/30 or 60/40 for me)
Wilder: We will fight at USA, or we will fight with 50/50 at England.

AJ: f**** off, I have 4 belts I won more money, keep your WBC belt to yourself
...
So you can also blame AJ for not fighting with Wilder for years and not taking the WBC belt as well. At some point, you need to accept the unfair conditions to be something greater; such as being the undisputed champ since Ali, Tyson, Holyfied and Lewis.
...
AJ should've accept Wilder's offer for one time only, and then take his belt then you can decide the conditions all you want. It wouldn't hurt to earn a little less money for one time in exchange of being the undisputed champ for a change. You're already a millionaire, but you are not the undisputed champ.

DELUDED
Back in the real world, does Canelo give 50-50? Does Mayweather give 50-50?
Joshua and Canelo are the money men of boxing, in reality they are going to offer money, and if the B-side doesn’t like the conditions there is negotiation, but they are still the B-side. Wilder is not the A-side.
Wilder could have been in that position, but he preferred padding his record with PBC house fights, instead of going after the belts. Wilder’s team allowed Joshua to take the big unification fights, and become the A-side.

But that's both AJ's and Wilder's fault that we never see one, instead of both of them fought people like Dominic Breazeale.

FALSE EQUIVALENCE
Breazeale was chosen as Joshua’s 1st defence of the IBF title.
Breazeale was chosen as Wilder’s 9th defence of the WBC title

He didn't do that, instead he got his ass kicked by Ruiz, then he f**** up his schedule very bad, he wasted half year for fighting against Ruiz again, and then he needed vacate one of his precious belts (IBF) or he needs to fight someone like Pulev (another waste of time) so he can keep the useless IBF belt.

DOUBLE STANDARD
Wilder kept announcing his next fight the week before Joshua was scheduled to be in the ring. So who is wasting time?
Though I can see how fighting legitimate mandatories can seem like a waster of time from the perspective of a Wilder fan.
So you are basically laying the blame on Joshua for fighting only his third voluntary when Wilder announced that he would be freezing Joshua out and fighting Fury in a rematch, and not taking the Wembley fight.

I would never understand AJ's mentality, no one cares about IBF or WBO... You need to prove that you can take down a reigning champion first, and you never did that, all you did was winning the vacated belts, just like Wilder did.

DELUDED And you are starting to repeat yourself.
Stiverne (WBC no defences) = Martin (IBF no defences)
Stiverne (WBC no defences) < Parker (WBO 2 defences i.e. reigning)
Stiverne << Klitschko (not a champion TRUE -very well done -, but was still ranked #1 at the time in Fury’s absence)


Sorry, but I’m going to skip a large part of your ranting, as you are just repeating the above points.

That's the difference between Fury and AJ, Fury accepted Wilder's conditions, and he fought with him twice in USA, first he won but he got robbed, he didn't cry and he never made that a big problem while he could've easily and no one would say anything about it, then what he did? Ok, if you have a biased judge, then I will knock your ass in USA and no judge will save your ass again, that's exactly what Fury did. That's how you can be the undisputed champion, winning under unfair conditions without whinning about the contracts or the biased judges.

FALSE EQUIVALENCE & DOUBLE STANDARD
Fury wasn’t the A-side, and didn’t hold any belts, so he had very little say.
It’s well known that Fury wanted more warm-up fights before he was willing to face Joshua. i.e. Fury saw Wilder as the easier option, and as a route to the big pay day of an undisputed fight with Joshua.

Also Fury did actually publicly complain about the officiating in the first fight.
Also Fury wouldn’t take the immediate rematch when Wilder refused to fight him in the UK.
Not only that Wilder’s team pre-signed a contract with the Barclay center.
Fury chose instead to take the ESPN deal and position himself as the house fighter in Vegas, as a route to getting any semblance of fair shake in a future rematch.
Hmm… there seems to be a pattern emerging with Wilder tanking negotiations.

I am %100 million percent sure that even if AJ would accepted Wilder's offer (he wouldn't anyway) to fight in USA with 50/50 contract, and if AJ got robbed by a biased judge and leave the fight with a draw, then he would cry about it all the time and he would never fight with Wilder in USA with 50/50 contract again.
That's the difference between Fury and AJ, no crying, no making excuses, just old school ass whooping and winning the belt.

DELUDED
Yes, we all know Joshua as that guy who took his loss really badly and complained and whined in the aftermath.
Oh no wait… he did the opposite of that, and took his L to Ruiz like a pro.
It was Wilder who took his loss to Fury badly and came out with ridiculous excuses.



See, it wasn't lying when I said your post was dumpster fire of delusion, false equivalencies, and double standards heavy on the anti-Joshua, pro-Wilder bias.



p.s. Joshua is no angel in my eyes btw. It irritates me how he gets off Scott free from his fans in cancelling the Wembley April date, by throwing a low ball offer at Whyte, just so he could have his debut in the U.S.
So there was definitely some Karma in him losing that fight. Not to mention even without Covid-19 his insistence on fighting less than every 6 months, he is the least active unified champion ever, and is stalling out fighters from getting a shot within any reasonable time frame. But none of that has any baring on Wilder ducking the undisputed and making no attempts to unify for years.
But I will give props to Wilder for being more active, unfortunately his opponent selection has always been the main problem.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 21:20

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 20:29 Sure, he's obviously his best win, don't think it really needs stating, but my goodness the other contenders from that are unimpressive, say what you want about AJ, Whyte, and Parker, but beating them would easily take his accomplishments to the next level. If you think he has the in ring ability that he would beat them all, and presumably many other contenders, certainly he has underachieved for whatever reason and regardless of his limitations he has not accomplished even close to what his ability would have allowed him too.

just doesn't seem like a case in that instance to act like he's achieved wonderfully for his ability. that's the type of career where you wish you had seen more from the guy

Again, power is one piece of in-ring ability. and one of the few that typically can't be massively changed through training. He doesn't have particularly good stamina, not great footwork, poor fundamentals, doesn't have a great chin, apparently doesn't absorb body blows well, doesn't move well, doesn't have high ring IQ. Aside from Stiverne 1, his power has been the only factor of every single career win he's notched. Given that, he's accomplished more than a one trick pony ever should have.

I think we have to acknowledge that the guy has made 10 successful defences of the WBC title, even if there were some dodgy decisions and referee interference along the way; it's still no mean feat.

BUT, and it's a big BUT

He was/is basically the PBC American Champion, and not a World Champion, despite holding the WBC title for so long.

In an era where the vast majority of the top ranking Heavyweight talent is outside of the American continent, he has managed to only beat two non-American fighters in his 10 defences. And of those two, one was the #1 French HWY, and the other a Polish fighter who never broke into any universal top 20 and now fights at Cruiser.

Also how many in-house PBC fights did the WBC allow?!
Both his mandatories were farces built on back room politics instead of in ring achievement.

It's not even like the other top heavyweights of the time outside of the PBC haven't been trying to fight him. They've tried, but the PBC/WBC protection racket always kicked in.
(I say of the time, as Fury was an unknown quantity during his comeback)

Wilder/Haymon were basically allowed to turn the WBC World Title into the PBC American Title during Wilder's long reign.

So yeah, his career is a kind of a sham for those of us who having been watching it unfold.

But for a casual observer, he looks like he has some ATG record. Which is nonsense.

Though I would separate that out from saying he is a sham, because the punching power is real.

I mean no more of a sham than the rest of the Heavyweight division at the moment. Most of whom avoid other top guys. He beat a lot of people that aren't top guys.

If he ever beats AJ somewhere along the way he'll at least establish himself as the clear 2nd best guy of the era, but for now it's still up in the air where his legacy ultimately falls.

Finkel wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 22:07

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 10:21 But instead we've this kind of threads from AJ fanboys, who are trying to slander Wilder all the time. I am really sick of AJ fanboys, and I don't even like Wilder.

If you didn't like Wilder why did you rank him as the number 2 Heavyweight in the world after his disastrous loss to Fury?
Give it a rest mate.
You are calling people liars whilst coming out with that whopper.

Because AJ wasn't impressive against fatter Ruiz, and he got KOed by Ruiz before?

Show me when Wilder got KOed by someone like Ruiz?

Of course AJ fanboys like you can believe that Ruiz is anywhere near close to a real champion like Tyson Fury, but most people won't.

Wilder has more title defenses (10 > 4), and if he fights AJ outside of England, he has a solid chance to knock AJ's weak chin down.

Wilder despite having no boxing skill, the guy's chin is on a different level than AJ's, and he still has a far better punching power than AJ has.

Yes, just because I am not a Wilder fanboy, that doesn't mean I should overrate Joshua and put him above Wilder when he performed so bad against Ruiz...

Finkel wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 22:07
Now as for your other post which you claim I didn't read, because it's obviously a work of brilliance that will convince people to see how wonderful Wilder is and how the blame lies equally if not more with Joshua:

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 12:47 Now you are blaming Wilder for not fighting against AJ?
That's both of their problem, not Wilder's only.

It’s obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense the issue is Wilder’s handlers.

None of them agreed, there are 2 major belts; WBC and WBA. And Wilder had one of them, IBF and WBO are not so important.

DELUDED
As people keep pointing out to you, IBF and WBO have been established belts for quite some time.
At Heavyweight The IBF is often regarded as the most respected atm due to its consistency of rules.
The WBC and WBA which you regard highly based on long history, in recent history are doing their best to tank their reputation at Heavyweight. See WBA multiple titles and rankings. See WBC and their consistent ignoring of their own rules to create two sham mandatories for Wilder. Without even mentioning the franchise champion nonsense.

AJ: We will fight at England and with reality contracts. (70/30 or 60/40 for me)
Wilder: We will fight at USA, or we will fight with 50/50 at England.

AJ: f**** off, I have 4 belts I won more money, keep your WBC belt to yourself
...
So you can also blame AJ for not fighting with Wilder for years and not taking the WBC belt as well. At some point, you need to accept the unfair conditions to be something greater; such as being the undisputed champ since Ali, Tyson, Holyfied and Lewis.
...
AJ should've accept Wilder's offer for one time only, and then take his belt then you can decide the conditions all you want. It wouldn't hurt to earn a little less money for one time in exchange of being the undisputed champ for a change. You're already a millionaire, but you are not the undisputed champ.

DELUDED
Back in the real world, does Canelo give 50-50? Does Mayweather give 50-50?
Joshua and Canelo are the money men of boxing, in reality they are going to offer money, and if the B-side doesn’t like the conditions there is negotiation, but they are still the B-side. Wilder is not the A-side.
Wilder could have been in that position, but he preferred padding his record with PBC house fights, instead of going after the belts. Wilder’s team allowed Joshua to take the big unification fights, and become the A-side.

But that's both AJ's and Wilder's fault that we never see one, instead of both of them fought people like Dominic Breazeale.

FALSE EQUIVALENCE
Breazeale was chosen as Joshua’s 1st defence of the IBF title.
Breazeale was chosen as Wilder’s 9th defence of the WBC title

He didn't do that, instead he got his ass kicked by Ruiz, then he f**** up his schedule very bad, he wasted half year for fighting against Ruiz again, and then he needed vacate one of his precious belts (IBF) or he needs to fight someone like Pulev (another waste of time) so he can keep the useless IBF belt.

DOUBLE STANDARD
Wilder kept announcing his next fight the week before Joshua was scheduled to be in the ring. So who is wasting time?
Though I can see how fighting legitimate mandatories can seem like a waster of time from the perspective of a Wilder fan.
So you are basically laying the blame on Joshua for fighting only his third voluntary when Wilder announced that he would be freezing Joshua out and fighting Fury in a rematch, and not taking the Wembley fight.

I would never understand AJ's mentality, no one cares about IBF or WBO... You need to prove that you can take down a reigning champion first, and you never did that, all you did was winning the vacated belts, just like Wilder did.

DELUDED And you are starting to repeat yourself.
Stiverne (WBC no defences) = Martin (IBF no defences)
Stiverne (WBC no defences) < Parker (WBO 2 defences i.e. reigning)
Stiverne << Klitschko (not a champion TRUE -very well done -, but was still ranked #1 at the time in Fury’s absence)

Established by who?

Only Joshua fanboys would think IBF and WBO means something.

Lmao, Joshua fanboys are really something. Joshua was not the undisputed champion. For being the undisputed champion, yes for one time, you can agree to give 50-50, then you can say f**** off if he wants a rematch. Take his belt and create your own legacy.

I would say the problem was not the money, it was the fear of losing by one of the hardest puncher in the boxing history

People weaker than Wilder actually hurt and dropped Joshua's ass, Joshua can't be imagining what would happen if Wilder lands one of his shots, Joshua is not Fury.

LOL at Parker's defenses, the guy won a second rate belt against Ruiz, when he actually didn't beat Ruiz If there is any sham that was Parker.

So no, AJ beat no real champion, just like Wilder didn't beat. But the difference is, Wilder beat more than AJ did, 10 title defenses > 4 title defenses.

Klitschko was no champion and he was semi-retired for 1,5 year after the Tyson Fury fight, AJ fans are reaching

Finkel wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 22:07
DELUDED
Yes, we all know Joshua as that guy who took his loss really badly and complained and whined in the aftermath.
Oh no wait… he did the opposite of that, and took his L to Ruiz like a pro.
It was Wilder who took his loss to Fury badly and came out with ridiculous excuses.

You're delusional if you think Ruiz is anywhere near close to Tyson Fury's level

Let alone fatter and not trained Ruiz in the rematch Losing two rounds to a far weaker and fatter Ruiz was a disgrace, AJ fought cowardly, and he satisfied no one but his fanboys.

Give it a rest mate.

You are the only fan boy on this thread.
And you're embarrassing yourself with your fan-boy name calling whilst spouting biased drivel detached from reality. Now you are even going as far as making up pointless strawmen to argue against.

Besides I thought I was a Fury fan boy, or was it Chisora, hmm...maybe Parker, I guess it's now Joshua.

I'll give you a clue... I just don't rate Wilder all that highly.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Apr 2020, 01:31 I mean no more of a sham than the rest of the Heavyweight division at the moment. Most of whom avoid other top guys. He beat a lot of people that aren't top guys.

If he ever beats AJ somewhere along the way he'll at least establish himself as the clear 2nd best guy of the era, but for now it's still up in the air where his legacy ultimately falls.

Fair point. But Wilder is going to be waiting some time if he doesn't beat Fury in the rematch. And Wilder isn't getting any younger.

If he doesn't win, and Joshua somehow gets passed Fury in the undisputed fight, Wilder will be deep into the wrong side of 35 when he eventually fights Joshua.

If wilder loses this rematch he will go to the back of the queue, behind Fury (undisputed), and then possibly Usyk (WBO) and Whyte (WBC) at a minimum.

Personally I'm not sure Joshua can beat Fury, which might open the door to a Wilder fight sooner, but we'll see

What will AJ fans say now?



AJ said he wants to fight with Luis Ortiz. The guy that Deontay Wilder defeated twice.

AJ fans: Wilder picks the easy fights.

AJ named

Fury
Wilder
Usyk
Miller
Ortiz
Kownacki


That would basically be every major player in the division he hasn't fought. What should his top 6 be if Ortiz is just weak ass and too sh!tty to deserve making the cut? Who should take easy werk Lou's place bruh? I'd say the only one out of place there is Kow, I'm guessing the vid was made before his loss

Lets see who ends up with the most names on their resumé.

All them guys have been building up their records in different ways. I try to keep it for what it is. Wilder took his route and his rivals did their thing.

Just hope that they make the fights happens. Wilder going after Fury again is kudos after getting whooped around the ring. So I hope that he comes back stronger. How he performence in the coming rematch, will either make or break him. Win, loss or draw don't matter. If he goes out with making Fury work all night and still losses. Kudos. Then he has grown and will be around. Might not like being B-side. But, it is what it is.

His record might not be the best. But that power with a skillset that his getting better for every fight he is in. Well, hope he shows us that he don't need a belt to prove himself.

Fury is focused and Wilder is really pissed. Gonna be a great 3rd fight in my head. For the time.

Paci wrote: ↑03 May 2020, 18:33 Lets see who ends up with the most names on their resumé.

All them guys have been building up their records in different ways. I try to keep it for what it is. Wilder took his route and his rivals did their thing.

Just hope that they make the fights happens. Wilder going after Fury again is kudos after getting whooped around the ring. So I hope that he comes back stronger. How he performence in the coming rematch, will either make or break him. Win, loss or draw don't matter. If he goes out with making Fury work all night and still losses. Kudos. Then he has grown and will be around. Might not like being B-side. But, it is what it is.

His record might not be the best. But that power with a skillset that his getting better for every fight he is in. Well, hope he shows us that he don't need a belt to prove himself.

Fury is focused and Wilder is really pissed. Gonna be a great 3rd fight in my head. For the time.

Ya, showed a really improved skillset last time didn't he, I'm sure at 35 , having fought Fury twice and already having had the time to adapt he'll be a totally different fighter next time too

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑03 May 2020, 18:49

Paci wrote: ↑03 May 2020, 18:33 Lets see who ends up with the most names on their resumé.

All them guys have been building up their records in different ways. I try to keep it for what it is. Wilder took his route and his rivals did their thing.

Just hope that they make the fights happens. Wilder going after Fury again is kudos after getting whooped around the ring. So I hope that he comes back stronger. How he performence in the coming rematch, will either make or break him. Win, loss or draw don't matter. If he goes out with making Fury work all night and still losses. Kudos. Then he has grown and will be around. Might not like being B-side. But, it is what it is.

His record might not be the best. But that power with a skillset that his getting better for every fight he is in. Well, hope he shows us that he don't need a belt to prove himself.

Fury is focused and Wilder is really pissed. Gonna be a great 3rd fight in my head. For the time.

Ya, showed a really improved skillset last time didn't he

I have fate in Wilder. Cause, he really got taken to school last time out. So I hope he learned something. Or he gets another schooling from Fury. If he couldn't handle that pressure like the last time.

And yeah, he was smashed.

He's hardly won a round in his last 2 fights and is 35 or something, he could do anyone if he lands the right shots but I don't buy the stuff that's he's improving each time, and he obviously did way worse in the rematch. he himself says he fights one way (looking for a KO shot) and doesn't try to change anything because his approach got him as far as it did


tbf though, there are guys who couldn't beat an opponent until the 3rd try, though most didn't get beaten up just months before by that guy.

Maybe he could do it 3rd time viewtopic.php?f=9&t=238566

Lets see how it plays out.
Both guy will bring their A-game. And we might get a real classic

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑03 May 2020, 17:31 AJ named

Fury
Wilder
Usyk
Miller
Ortiz
Kownacki


That would basically be every major player in the division he hasn't fought. What should his top 6 be if Ortiz is just weak ass and too sh!tty to deserve making the cut? Who should take easy werk Lou's place bruh? I'd say the only one out of place there is Kow, I'm guessing the vid was made before his loss

Let's see;

- Chisora
- David Price
- Michael Hunter
- Hughie Fury
- Daniel Dubois

He hasn't fought yet. But he didn't name them.

And he could still name Andy Ruiz and Dillian Whyte, because obviously Ruiz wasn't at his best in the rematch, and Dillian Whyte got better since 2015.

He could name a lot of people, but he named Luis Ortiz, so AJ thinks Wilder's opponents are legit, unlike Aj fans think.

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑03 May 2020, 17:23 What will AJ fans say now?



AJ said he wants to fight with Luis Ortiz. The guy that Deontay Wilder defeated twice.

AJ fans: Wilder picks the easy fights.

Let me get this straight. You're having a go at Joshua for mentioning Luis Ortiz as a possible opponent? Because he's a gimme presumably? The same Luis Ortiz who is the best name in your boy's win column by quite some distance?

That is some f*cked up logic right there.

So Joshua's next opponents are Pulev and Ortiz who would slot right in alongside Ortiz as Wilder's top three wins always assuming he were to beat them. He (Joshua) is supposedly in talks with Fury, although I doubt that happens next. Fury and Wilder are tied up with each other.

He's already beaten Dillian Whyte, Joseph Parker, Alexandr Povetkin, Miller has shat on the rug and is in disgrace, Ruiz needs to convince people he is worthy of another crack, Kownacki is looking like a busted flush, Washington, Helenius, Martin wouldn't be acceptable opponents, not sure that Hunter would either. Hrgovic needs do something to earn a title shot, Rivas lost to Whyte so also would garner sneers from many fight fans. No need to even mention your boy's second best ever conquest. He was washed up long before the rematch.

So come on then genius, who should he put on the list in place of Ortiz?

See the post above ''genius''

Back on topic...

thunderking500 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020, 21:14Was/Is Wilder's career essentially a sham?

sham

Noun: Something that is not what it seems to be and is intended to deceive people, or someone who pretends to be something they are not:

Adjective: a thing that is not what it is purported to be.

Verb: falsely present something as the truth.

Deontay Wilder:

Pros:
• An Olympic bronze medallist
• Possessed an amateur record of 30-5
• Competed in in twelve world heavyweight title fights (losing only one of them, but made ten successful defences)
• Achieved the twelfth longest (combined) world heavyweight championship reign
• Excluding The RING & Lineal titles, only four men have performed more successful/consecutive world heavyweight championship defences during their title reigns (i.e. Tommy Burns = 13; Wladimir Klitschko = 18; Larry Holmes = 19; & Joe Louis = 26), with Wilder’s tally equalling that of Muhammad Ali
• Five of his bouts were against former world champions (Tyson Fury [twice], Bermane Stiverne [twice] & Siarhei Liakhovich)
• Defeated five unbeaten fighters
• Seven of his bouts were against top-ten world-rated opposition, as per The RING ratings (i.e. Bermane Stiverne [twice], Luis Ortiz [twice], Tyson Fury [twice] & Dominic Breazeale)
• If Wilder retired today, he’d overtake Vitali Klitschko, in possessing the highest knockout percentage of any former world heavyweight champion, due to winning 93% of his bouts by KO)

Cons:
• Wilder has only ever beaten three top-ten world-rated heavyweights (Bermane Stiverne, Luis Ortiz & Dominic Breazeale)
• Apart from Tyson Fury and Johann Duhaupas, every single one of his defences of the WBC world championship came against fellow Al Haymon stablemates (i.e. Bermane Stiverne [twice], Eric Molina, Artur Szpilka, Chris Arreola, Gerald Washington, Luis Ortiz [twice] & Dominic Breazeale)
• Has only ever beaten two top-five world-rated opponents (Bermane Stiverne [1st fight = 3rd] and Luis Ortiz [1st fight = 5th])
• Only ever performed two mandatory defences of his WBC title during his five years, one month & five-day reign (i.e. the Stiverne rematch and Dominic Breazeale, with both of these guys being fellow Al Haymon stablemates)
• Despite being the world heavyweight champion for more than five years, he’s never enjoyed a prolonged spell of being regarded as the “main man” of that division (i.e. the likes of Wladimir Klitschko, Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury have usually held that moniker over the same timeframe)
• During his last seven outings, Wilder probably hasn’t won a single round where he failed to score a knockdown (this is more of a personal opinion rather than being an irrefutable fact, but regardless, it won't be far removed from universally-regarded reality)

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑04 May 2020, 07:53 See the post above ''genius''

Fair enough. I should have read further. There is a reason I hadn't mentioned any of the guys you did, aside from Hunter:

Chisora: Remind me who Dereck has beaten. He was beaten by Pulev who Wilder's fanboys have been pouring scorn on even though AJ is obliged to fight him.

Price: You have got to be joking. If a post prime Tony Thompson can knock him out (twice) what business has he got sharing a ring with Joshua? You would be among the first with the howls of derision and I think I might join you.

Hunter: I already covered him. A lot of people regard him as too small to trouble Joshua, and he's not high profile. Many would regard Hunter as Joshua taking an easy defence. A decent shout though I'll give you that.

Fury-light: Couldn't beat Pulev, Parker or Povetkin. People would want Hearn's head on a pike if he were to serve Hughie up as a sacrifice to AJ.

Dubois: His time will come but he is not ready for Joshua any time soon. Of course if he were to turn in a dominant performance against Joyce I might reconsider my opinion, but I'm surprised his team are ready to put him in with Joyce at this stage in his career if I'm being truthful.

Dillian Whyte: Chose to decline the rematch unless you 'd forgotten. Not that I blame him. Why risk his Sky PPV future fighting someone who's aleady left you in a semi-conscious heap on the floor?

Ruiz: No one wants to see the rubber match unless and until Ruiz has got at least one good meaningful win to show his heart is stil in the game.

Let's be honest, it dosn't matter who he named. You are still going to take any opportunity to sh*t on him,. Haters gonna hate.

To some extent it was. He was given a title shot without really important wins. He won the belt without any questions, but then he had a streak of cherry picking defences. After he began to fight a worthy opposition, he started to have problems. In his 10 title defences only three opponents were seen as real threats, those were Ortiz, Breazeale and Fury. And we know, how everything ended.

DrDuke wrote: ↑04 May 2020, 17:26To some extent it was. [Wilder] was given a title shot without really important wins.

Vanes Martirosyan, Kassim Ouma, Lajuan Simon, Makoto Fuchigami, Gabriel Rosado, Nobuhiro Ishida, Curtis Stevens, Osumanu Adama, Willie Monroe Jr., Dominic Wade etc.

What did these guys do to earn their title shots against GGG?

DrDuke wrote: ↑04 May 2020, 17:26[Wilder] won the belt without any questions, but then he had a streak of cherry picking defences.

The same claim applies to many other world champions (as per my previous paragraph, coupled with the following):

For instance: apart from the IBF title, GGG won his WBC & WBA titles outside the ring (resulting in him having his championship status elevated three times between bouts, without having earned these titles inside the ring i.e. WBA interim -> regular -> super; WBC interim -> regular), but nobody (including the fans) questioned the governing bodies conduct or the legitimacy of Gennadiy's champion status.

DrDuke wrote: ↑04 May 2020, 17:26After [Wilder] began to fight a worthy opposition, he started to have problems.

The same can be said of GGG's bouts against Daniel Jacobs, Canelo & Sergiy Derevyanchenko.

There are undeniable parallels, regardless the reasons for those similar situations, between your remarks about Deontay Wilder and the circumstances and career trajectories of many other world champions.

If you still feel that your criteria for criticising Deontay Wilder’s resume is legitimate, then you have to apply the same standards consistently to other champions whose careers followed a similar path, regardless the reasons.

Wilder was a sham, almost lost to Szpilka.
Fury is a sham his best win was over Wilder lol.
AJ is a sham got knocked down by ancient lesser Klitschko.
Lesser Klitschko was a sham got knocked out by lots of people.
Vitaly was a sham ducked Fury.
Lennox was a sham winning vs former lhws, unproven eastern europeans and a washed up Tyson doesnt mean that much.
Etc

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 May 2020, 00:50

DrDuke wrote: ↑04 May 2020, 17:26To some extent it was. [Wilder] was given a title shot without really important wins.

Vanes Martirosyan, Kassim Ouma, Lajuan Simon, Makoto Fuchigami, Gabriel Rosado, Nobuhiro Ishida, Curtis Stevens, Osumanu Adama, Willie Monroe Jr., Dominic Wade etc.

What did these guys do to earn their title shots against GGG?

DrDuke wrote: ↑04 May 2020, 17:26[Wilder] won the belt without any questions, but then he had a streak of cherry picking defences.

The same claim applies to many other world champions (as per my previous paragraph, coupled with the following):

For instance: apart from the IBF title, GGG won his WBC & WBA titles outside the ring (resulting in him having his championship status elevated three times between bouts, without having earned these titles inside the ring i.e. WBA interim -> regular -> super; WBC interim -> regular), but nobody (including the fans) questioned the governing bodies conduct or the legitimacy of Gennadiy's champion status.

DrDuke wrote: ↑04 May 2020, 17:26After [Wilder] began to fight a worthy opposition, he started to have problems.

The same can be said of GGG's bouts against Daniel Jacobs, Canelo & Sergiy Derevyanchenko.

There are undeniable parallels, regardless the reasons for those similar situations, between your remarks about Deontay Wilder and the circumstances and career trajectories of many other world champions.

If you still feel that your criteria for criticising Deontay Wilder’s resume is legitimate, then you have to apply the same standards consistently to other champions whose careers followed a similar path, regardless the reasons.

GGG! GGG!

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 May 2020, 02:56

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 May 2020, 00:50
Vanes Martirosyan, Kassim Ouma, Lajuan Simon, Makoto Fuchigami, Gabriel Rosado, Nobuhiro Ishida, Curtis Stevens, Osumanu Adama, Willie Monroe Jr., Dominic Wade etc.

What did these guys do to earn their title shots against GGG?

The same claim applies to many other world champions (as per my previous paragraph, coupled with the following):

For instance: apart from the IBF title, GGG won his WBC & WBA titles outside the ring (resulting in him having his championship status elevated three times between bouts, without having earned these titles inside the ring i.e. WBA interim -> regular -> super; WBC interim -> regular), but nobody (including the fans) questioned the governing bodies conduct or the legitimacy of Gennadiy's champion status.

The same can be said of GGG's bouts against Daniel Jacobs, Canelo & Sergiy Derevyanchenko.

There are undeniable parallels, regardless the reasons for those similar situations, between your remarks about Deontay Wilder and the circumstances and career trajectories of many other world champions.

If you still feel that your criteria for criticising Deontay Wilder’s resume is legitimate, then you have to apply the same standards consistently to other champions whose careers followed a similar path, regardless the reasons.

GGG! GGG!

I think what I’ve written is reasonable though.

I’m not criticising GGG per se, but the same perceived career flaws that is being used to undermine Wilder’s achievements also applies to him and other fighters.

And this is coming from someone that has never been a fan of Wilder.

For instance: people are saying Wilder was given a title shot without scoring any important wins, but what did the likes of Vanes Martirosyan, Kassim Ouma, Lajuan Simon, Makoto Fuchigami, Gabriel Rosado, Nobuhiro Ishida, Curtis Stevens, Osumanu Adama, Willie Monroe Jr., Dominic Wade etc. do to gain their shots at GGG’s world title(s)?

Everyone should apply their moral rules and standards consistently.