BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 09:31

Isaax wrote: ↑22 Jun 2020, 09:07 He was at his best at super middle, looking like the best in the business. He was winning very convincingly against great fighters like Iran and Prince Charles

Prince Charles Williams and Iran Barkley were not great fighters. They were good fighters.

Barkley most certainly was great my man, to keep coming back war after war and scoring upset after upset, incredible

black panther wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 10:11

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 10:52 I'd say it's a fair list, of course you could argue Calzaghe is rated above him, but i would say it's close as Calzaghe fought a lot of very soft competition during that reign, it was laughable at times.

This.

In my mind Calzaghe would have beaten Froch handily. But we can’t rank boxers on potential, we have to base it on actual results right?

In which case as much as I think Froch is a strange character, Froch’s resume is arguably better than Calzaghe and in my opinion he’s justified in ranking himself above Joe.

Agree with everything but froch over Joe.

Isaax wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 10:21

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 09:31

Prince Charles Williams and Iran Barkley were not great fighters. They were good fighters.

Barkley most certainly was great my man, to keep coming back war after war and scoring upset after upset, incredible

I'm not your man, and Barkley was a very tough hombre, but a great he was not.

If overcoming the adversity he did isn't great, I don't know what is. Just look at the punishment he endured against Hearns, eyes cut up and swelling, before wiping him out

WBC, WBA and IBF champ at three diff weights without hand speed, fleet feet, head movement or punching technique

Definition of great

And Iran was the favourite against Toney of course

The most masterful display of boxing at top level I've seen to this day, that night from Lights Out

Isaax wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 13:33 If overcoming the adversity he did isn't great, I don't know what is. Just look at the punishment he endured against Hearns, eyes cut up and swelling, before wiping him out

WBC, WBA and IBF champ at three diff weights without hand speed, fleet feet, head movement or punching technique

Definition of great

It’s a definition of great, sure.

Just a really bad one that nobody will agree with

He took on the very best of the best ffs Hearns x2, Duran, peak Kalambay, peak Nunn, peak Benn, peak Toney- and arguably won all the fights other than Kalambay, Benn & Toney, had Nunn moonwalking, running & using slack ropes to dope him

Had Hearns out cleaner than Hagler did and amazingly outboxed him second time!!

Did better against Kalambay than McCallum did, fight of the year with Duran, underdog against Olajide and Van Horn and beat the shit out of them. What more do you want

Closet classics with Sims and Williams, I mean all out wars. Beat up ESPN stars Kinchen and Tinley. Come on, the bloke was fornicating great, best one round brawl ever with Benn etc etc

The only surprise here is that Carl hasn't put himself at Number 1.

Ultimately with all this context is key. Due to politics and the cowardice of others, Toney couldn't get any big fights at super middle except for the big one, which he took.

Calzaghe could have had many big fights but he ducked them all until the bitter end. He could have even fought prime Roy Jones, but he preferred 40 yr old Roy Jones.

I doubt whether the people dismissing Toney would bet money against him if he was actually boxing some of the fellas they're ranking above him.

Coulda woulda shoulda

Though not as bad as the Nunn stuff, if he was some elite smw ATG what were Liles and f@cking Steve Little

Isaax wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 13:36 And Iran was the favourite against Toney of course

The most masterful display of boxing at top level I've seen to this day, that night from Lights Out

I'd be willing to bet Barkley wasn't favored.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 04:20

Isaax wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 13:36 And Iran was the favourite against Toney of course

The most masterful display of boxing at top level I've seen to this day, that night from Lights Out

I'd be willing to bet Barkley wasn't favored.

He certainly was by most experts and all bookies, after Toney's many mediocre displays post-Nunn looking as though he lost against Reggie Johnson, ancient (in them days) Mike McCallum and average Dave Tiberi (clearly) and Barkley's form v The Schoolboy DVH & Tommy @ 175

In Britain, the only one who picked Toney was Eubank. Eubank saying Toney had too much 'craft' for the 'slugger' Barkley and would 'out maneuver him all night with superior boxing craft' and suggested Watt, McGuigan, Mason, Benn, Andries, Lewis etc didn't know boxing like he did

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:02

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 04:20

I'd be willing to bet Barkley wasn't favored.

He certainly was by most experts and all bookies, after Toney's many mediocre displays post-Nunn looking as though he lost against Reggie Johnson, ancient (in them days) Mike McCallum and average Dave Tiberi (clearly) and Barkley's form v The Schoolboy DVH & Tommy @ 175

Not buying it.

13/5 toney

Isaax wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 13:33 If overcoming the adversity he did isn't great, I don't know what is. Just look at the punishment he endured against Hearns, eyes cut up and swelling, before wiping him out

WBC, WBA and IBF champ at three diff weights without hand speed, fleet feet, head movement or punching technique

Definition of great

Great fun to watch, for sure, but A great, no.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:05

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:02
He certainly was by most experts and all bookies, after Toney's many mediocre displays post-Nunn looking as though he lost against Reggie Johnson, ancient (in them days) Mike McCallum and average Dave Tiberi (clearly) and Barkley's form v The Schoolboy DVH & Tommy @ 175

Not buying it.

Not buying it? Umm well that's the way it was, making Toneys showing even more breathtaking considering

In The Ring, it was 100% votes for Julian Jackson to beat Toney if they fought, Toney chose Barkley instead and Foreman etc considered it even tougher than high P4P JJ

16m25s to 17m20s the kinda thoughts at the time

In hindsight we know Toney was the goods though and that McCallum wasn't old by today's standards

13m to 15m

Odds swayed back to Barkley before fight

Eubank was literally the only fighter/trainer/pundit on either side of the Atlantic picking Toney

Benn and Hearns went for Barkley big

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:10

Isaax wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 13:33 If overcoming the adversity he did isn't great, I don't know what is. Just look at the punishment he endured against Hearns, eyes cut up and swelling, before wiping him out

WBC, WBA and IBF champ at three diff weights without hand speed, fleet feet, head movement or punching technique

Definition of great

Great fun to watch, for sure, but A great, no.

Can't go along with that m8

What made Ali and Duran and Hagler and Robinson so great was coming back from all their losses to reign again, if they didn't lose and come back they wouldn't be looked at as great

Adversity defines it, overcoming or crumbling

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:23

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:10

Great fun to watch, for sure, but A great, no.

Can't go along with that m8

What made Ali and Duran and Hagler and Robinson so great was coming back from all their losses to reign again, if they didn't lose and come back they wouldn't be looked at as great

Adversity defines it, overcoming or crumbling

Well you have whatever personal definition of greatness you like, but I'm afraid you'll find very few people will be agreeing with you.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:34

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:23
Can't go along with that m8

What made Ali and Duran and Hagler and Robinson so great was coming back from all their losses to reign again, if they didn't lose and come back they wouldn't be looked at as great

Adversity defines it, overcoming or crumbling

Well you have whatever personal definition of greatness you like, but I'm afraid you'll find very few people will be agreeing with you.

Maybe not keyboard warriors on some Internet forum

Teddy Atlas considers Barkley truly great and in 100 years they will

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:20 13m to 15m

Odds swayed back to Barkley before fight

Eubank was literally the only fighter/trainer/pundit on either side of the Atlantic picking Toney

Benn and Hearns went for Barkley big

So now the odds swayed, but before all the bookies went for Barkley?

Put a sock in it, you're embarrassing yourself mate.

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:36

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:34

Well you have whatever personal definition of greatness you like, but I'm afraid you'll find very few people will be agreeing with you.

Maybe not keyboard warriors on some Internet forum

Teddy Atlas considers Barkley truly great and in 100 years they will

Oh, do piss off.

Go troll somewhere else.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:34

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:23
Can't go along with that m8

What made Ali and Duran and Hagler and Robinson so great was coming back from all their losses to reign again, if they didn't lose and come back they wouldn't be looked at as great

Adversity defines it, overcoming or crumbling

Well you have whatever personal definition of greatness you like, but I'm afraid you'll find very few people will be agreeing with you.

I remember someone once commenting that if you beat a legend you become a legend

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:37

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 05:36
Maybe not keyboard warriors on some Internet forum

Teddy Atlas considers Barkley truly great and in 100 years they will

Oh, do piss off.

Go troll somewhere else.

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