BoxRec

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 19:24

world ranked wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 18:24

Better prime wins at welterweight for me. I also think Floyd only gripe is Leonard lost to blown up lightweight (fair point) and undefeated record.

That's a myth. How is that true, when:
1, Duran was at welter for two years, 8 fights BEFORE fighting Leonard.
2. He was naturally heavier than Leonard

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:12 How good of a welterweight was Duran, is what really matters, not stuff at other weights

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:10

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 19:24

That's a myth. How is that true, when:
1, Duran was at welter for two years, 8 fights BEFORE fighting Leonard.
2. He was naturally heavier than Leonard

Still blown up despite how long he was at weight. If you look at best version of someone. What weight was there best? You can still accomplish alot at a higher weight doesn't minimize the fact they fighter wasn't at his best weight.

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:16

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:12 How good of a welterweight was Duran, is what really matters, not stuff at other weights

It does matter because the best weight comment will always come up. Floyd beat Canelo and people tend to bring the weight restrictions up. He beat Pacquaio. "Well Pacquaio wasnt what he was" though he was at welterweight for a while. The weight and when guys fought definitely matters.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 18:57

Evander wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 18:41 Ray Leonard was a great fighter but Floyd Mayweather can sometimes be harshly criticized.
It should be remembered that Ray Leonard spent a lot of time out of the ring during his career, he was out of action from February 82 to May 84, from May 84 to April 87 and from February 91 to March 97.
Apart from the Kevin Howard fight Ray Leonard spent just over 11 years out of the sport, that stuff should be taken into account.
Floyd Mayweather never had layoffs that long.
Sure you could argue the toss on who was a better Welterweight all day long, I just think it should be remembered and put into context just who was a more active fighter during their careers.
People love to hate on Floyd, most I'm sure just don't like his personality, but you'd be very hard pushed to make a case on him not being one of the greatest fighters of the modern era, sorry but it's just not luck that gets you to 50-0.

Floyd Mayweather never had a detached retina either. He took long layoffs on his own merit while the divisions around him were hot.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:18

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:16

It does matter because the best weight comment will always come up. Floyd beat Canelo and people tend to bring the weight restrictions up. He beat Pacquaio. "Well Pacquaio wasnt what he was" though he was at welterweight for a while. The weight and when guys fought definitely matters.

So was Duran a great welterweight or not?

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:16

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:10

Still blown up despite how long he was at weight. If you look at best version of someone. What weight was there best? You can still accomplish alot at a higher weight doesn't minimize the fact they fighter wasn't at his best weight.

The welterweight Duran that beat Leonard and the middle that was in the fight with Hagler would beat just about EVERYONE on Floyd's record including Floyd himself.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:16

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:10

Still blown up despite how long he was at weight. If you look at best version of someone. What weight was there best? You can still accomplish alot at a higher weight doesn't minimize the fact they fighter wasn't at his best weight.

The welterweight Duran that beat Leonard and the middle that was in the fight with Hagler would beat just about EVERYONE on Floyd's record including Floyd himself.

Evander wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:20

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 18:57

Floyd Mayweather never had a detached retina either. He took long layoffs on his own merit while the divisions around him were hot.

I'm aware of the detached retina and take it into account, however 11 years is 11 years, it's an enormous amount of time off.

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:38

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:16
The welterweight Duran that beat Leonard and the middle that was in the fight with Hagler would beat just about EVERYONE on Floyd's record including Floyd himself.

Opinion. Personally I don't argue fights that can't be made but for sake of this Floyd would clearly outpoint Duran. Too bad we can't prove who would win.

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:27

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:18

So was Duran a great welterweight or not?

He was better lightweight and that's the problem when he gets beat a higher weight. Exactly Floyd point he has a legit point when he said Leonard lost to a blown up lightweight. Again when your "peak" was at lower weight every guy that beat you at those higher weights the wins won't be fully acknowledged.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:53

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:27

He was better lightweight and that's the problem when he gets beat a higher weight. Exactly Floyd point he has a legit point when he said Leonard lost to a blown up lightweight. Again when your "peak" was at lower weight every guy that beat you at those higher weights the wins won't be fully acknowledged.

He was better at lightweight but so was Floyd, so what's your point? Duran was still great at welterweight. There's no denying that.

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:27

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:18

So was Duran a great welterweight or not?

He was better lightweight and that's the problem when he gets beat a higher weight. Exactly Floyd point he has a legit point when he said Leonard lost to a blown up lightweight. Again when your "peak" was at lower weight every guy that beat you at those higher weights the wins won't be fully acknowledged.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 20:01

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:27

He was better lightweight and that's the problem when he gets beat a higher weight. Exactly Floyd point he has a legit point when he said Leonard lost to a blown up lightweight. Again when your "peak" was at lower weight every guy that beat you at those higher weights the wins won't be fully acknowledged.

So Duran was a great welterweight, yes?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 20:13 Absolutely

You gonna keep ducking that question bruh? Duran a great welter, yes or no?

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 20:01

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:53

He was better at lightweight but so was Floyd, so what's your point? Duran was still great at welterweight. There's no denying that.

Floyd was point still has merit. Leonard lost to a blown up lightweight and great welterweight. While Floyd beat anyone you would consider a GREAT welterweight in his era. If there was any and didn't lose.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:16

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:10

Still blown up despite how long he was at weight. If you look at best version of someone. What weight was there best? You can still accomplish alot at a higher weight doesn't minimize the fact they fighter wasn't at his best weight.

The welterweight Duran that beat Leonard and the middle that was in the fight with Hagler would beat just about EVERYONE on Floyd's record including Floyd himself.

H8Usernames wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 18:50

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 18:37 Floyd doesn't have the quality of opponents to suggest that he was better than Leonard at WW.

As for the loss to Duran, Duran is one of the greatest fighters than ever lived, end of, and fought as high as MW, - the fornicator held his own with Hagler for christsakes.

There's a bunch of guys I'd have favoured or given a very good shot of beating Mayweather at WW
Leonard - Aside from defence, better than Mayweather in every department.
Armstrong - phenomenal engine - power in both hands, absolutely relentless in his prime
Hearns - Reach, boxing ability and power - this is the one guy I think may have actually given floyd a proper beating
Prime Mosley - the younger, faster version would have given Floyd far more problems.
Prime ODLH - even the past it version was doing very well - it would have been very tight, but Oscar would have had a great shot.


Floyd is an ATG, that's obvious, but that doesn't make him the greatest WW that ever lived.

Prime Mosley would have slaughtered Mayweather. But I can't see any version of ODLH beating Floyd.

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 20:26

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 19:16
The welterweight Duran that beat Leonard and the middle that was in the fight with Hagler would beat just about EVERYONE on Floyd's record including Floyd himself.

It's amazing to think that as good as Floyd couldn't beat these guys and that there's no chance that Floyd couldn't frustrate Duran to the point of quitting like Leonard did. I'm not saying it would happen but that's just as valid as Floyd losing to him.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 20:43

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 20:26

It's amazing to think that as good as Floyd couldn't beat these guys and that there's no chance that Floyd couldn't frustrate Duran to the point of quitting like Leonard did. I'm not saying it would happen but that's just as valid as Floyd losing to him.

I'm just stating facts. Duran is better than everyone on Floyd's record. And Duran could frustrate Floyd more than both Castillo and Maidana did.

world ranked wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 20:46

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 20:43

I'm just stating facts. Duran is better than everyone on Floyd's record. And Duran could frustrate Floyd more than both Castillo and Maidana did.

It's not facts that Duran is better than Pacquaio clear opinion. Your tend to clear forget he got better in the rematch while Duran quite. Thats facts. What you said is opinion so there's that.