BoxRec

There was a lot of talk of Naz, HBO's biggest star, facing young prodigy Mayweather. Can you imagine the mismatch? Floyd was 5ft9, Naz 5ft3, Floyd's range from wrist to shoulder was apparently the length of that of Wlad Klit - Naz had short arms even for a super-bantam, hence having to leap in to reach.

Floyd was already 8-0 in world title fights and had KO'd Corralles before Naz fought Mab, not like he was some rando

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 13:45

Onamastus wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 12:35

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 12:17

It was separate to HBO, for instance Jones-Toney has a HBO broadcast and a TVKO broadcast -where you didn't have to subscribe to HBO. Arum dropped it after Jones-Toney

TVKO was the PPV wing of HBO. HBO later changed the name to HBO PPV to remove needless confusion, what with all the alphabet soup in boxing. HBO/TVKO had loads of PPVs throughout the 1990s.

No

Yes. Fact. Bowe Holy III was TVKO, a year after Jones/Toney. Why you think Arum would have the power to tell HBO to shut down TVKO is a mystery. Holy Lewis I & II were both HBO PPVs in 1999.

You don't have a fcking clue what you're talking about.

Onamastus wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 14:02

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 13:45

Onamastus wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 12:35

TVKO was the PPV wing of HBO. HBO later changed the name to HBO PPV to remove needless confusion, what with all the alphabet soup in boxing. HBO/TVKO had loads of PPVs throughout the 1990s.

No

Yes. Fact. Bowe Holy III was TVKO, a year after Jones/Toney. Why you think Arum would have the power to tell HBO to shut down TVKO is a mystery. Holy Lewis I & II were both HBO PPVs in 1999.

You don't have a fcking clue what you're talking about.

You've just proved me right.

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 14:52

Onamastus wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 14:02

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 13:45
No

Yes. Fact. Bowe Holy III was TVKO, a year after Jones/Toney. Why you think Arum would have the power to tell HBO to shut down TVKO is a mystery. Holy Lewis I & II were both HBO PPVs in 1999.

You don't have a fcking clue what you're talking about.

You've just proved me right.

Please, do explain.

Onamastus wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 15:07

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 14:52

Onamastus wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 14:02

Yes. Fact. Bowe Holy III was TVKO, a year after Jones/Toney. Why you think Arum would have the power to tell HBO to shut down TVKO is a mystery. Holy Lewis I & II were both HBO PPVs in 1999.

You don't have a fcking clue what you're talking about.

You've just proved me right.

Please, do explain.

TVKO was a 91-95 thing. There are two broadcasts of the fights, a HBO one and a TVKO one. YouTube Nunn v Toney or Toney v Jones (both of which flopped) and you'll find two separate live TV commentaries.

TVKO was the reason Arum shut down Nunn and Toney fights for Eubank. He didn't want Eubank to make them look bad with his awkward style.

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 15:31

Onamastus wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 15:07

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 14:52
You've just proved me right.

Please, do explain.

TVKO was a 91-95 thing. There are two broadcasts of the fights, a HBO one and a TVKO one. YouTube Nunn v Toney or Toney v Jones (both of which flopped) and you'll find two separate live TV commentaries.

Do you think you might be confusing the HBO/TVKO US call (Lampley et al) with the HBO/TVKO international call?

Can you expand further on your previous statements that Bob Arum shut down TVKO after Jones/Toney? And that HBO didn't have PPV at the time of Nas/MAB (which btw was a HBO PPV)?

Oh was it? Then Barrera was by far his biggest pay day.

TVKO only showed Top Rank fights (and a handful of Duva fights on a single fight basis), the deal was between Time Warner and Top Rank (=TVKO, separate to HBO)

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 17:48 TVKO only showed Top Rank fights (and a handful of Duva fights on a single fight basis), the deal was between Time Warner and Top Rank (=TVKO, separate to HBO)

So in other words they showed Arum and Duva but not the only other big time PPV guy, Don King, who was Showtime/SET? Yeah, I know; what's your point?

TVKO was the original name of HBO PPV.

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 11:59

black panther wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 04:59

tonyevs wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 16:04 And its important to remember that MAB was seen as the warm up before putting Naz in against Morales who was seen as the top guy back then.

I dont buy the excuse that Naz wasnt at his best etc ... every boxer who ever loses says that; bad camp - bad hands - even a bad toe has been used. Simple truth is Naz just got found out.

Thats an opinion. Even if you look at Naz's body in the MAB compared to his earlier fights he was soft - earlier fights he was a ball of muscle.

Then you see his style - later in his career he stopped going to the body and throwing combinations and was just looking for a big punch.

So I don't buy Naz got found out. But again thats just my opinion.

You've just basically said he was found out. Lack of mental strength/dedication.

But you agree that wasn't the best version of Naz that fought MAB?

Not that his ability wasn't up to par to compete with the elite as many people would say.

Again - its an opinion if you consider Naz was on the slide then at age 28 after only 36 fights ... or if he was simply meeting a better calibre of opponent.

Again to make the comparison. Ricky Hatton was a fantastic fighter at a certain level; however once me met the elite guys there was a difference in his results. That said, I would put Hatton a level at least above Naz.

What’s the exact quote from John who was in the dressing room with him?

tonyevs wrote: ↑01 Aug 2020, 06:52 Again - its an opinion if you consider Naz was on the slide then at age 28 after only 36 fights ... or if he was simply meeting a better calibre of opponent.

Again to make the comparison. Ricky Hatton was a fantastic fighter at a certain level; however once me met the elite guys there was a difference in his results. That said, I would put Hatton a level at least above Naz.

Hattons worst mistake was moving to welter, but then that's where the money was.

I think Hamed peaked between 20-22

tonyevs wrote: ↑01 Aug 2020, 06:52 Again - its an opinion if you consider Naz was on the slide then at age 28 after only 36 fights ... or if he was simply meeting a better calibre of opponent.

I'd politely disagree. Anyone who followed Hamed saw the abandonment of footwork etc in the pursuit of spectacular single shot KOs - that was evident regardless of the calibre of opponent and was also clearly linked to his move away from Brendan Ingle.

black panther wrote: ↑01 Aug 2020, 06:06

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 11:59

black panther wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 04:59


Thats an opinion. Even if you look at Naz's body in the MAB compared to his earlier fights he was soft - earlier fights he was a ball of muscle.

Then you see his style - later in his career he stopped going to the body and throwing combinations and was just looking for a big punch.

So I don't buy Naz got found out. But again thats just my opinion.

You've just basically said he was found out. Lack of mental strength/dedication.

But you agree that wasn't the best version of Naz that fought MAB?

Not that his ability wasn't up to par to compete with the elite as many people would say.

Irrelevant. Ifs, buts and maybes don't wash in boxing.

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 13:45

Onamastus wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 12:35

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2020, 12:17

It was separate to HBO, for instance Jones-Toney has a HBO broadcast and a TVKO broadcast -where you didn't have to subscribe to HBO. Arum dropped it after Jones-Toney

TVKO was the PPV wing of HBO. HBO later changed the name to HBO PPV to remove needless confusion, what with all the alphabet soup in boxing. HBO/TVKO had loads of PPVs throughout the 1990s.

No

I’m not sure What you are trying to say. I had HBO at the time..and I still had to buy the fight on PPV.

It was not on both at the same time.

Dedication and mental strength are skills and talents.

He stopped throwing combinations because the opponents were better. Why else would he not throw combinations?

Laziness? That's pitiful.

We seem to be stuck on a 'chicken or the egg' analogy.

Either way what we know, and what was evidenced, is that after all the hype he just fizzled out .. not so much as a pop at the end.

When it came to mixing with the elite he lost.

The sad bit is that Amir Khan, one of the best value fighters we had/have will almost always be rated behind Naz because he will be known for his KO losses, even though he had better wins throughout his career.

The sad part is Hamed was boo'd out the arena in his last fight, never came back to prove his worth when the going finally got tough

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2020, 13:42 He stopped throwing combinations because the opponents were better. Why else would he not throw combinations?

Laziness? That's pitiful.

Idiotic statement. There is plenty of precedent for fighters falling in love with their power and neglecting their skills - Tyson is an obvious example, Honeyghan another.

tonyevs wrote: ↑01 Aug 2020, 15:31 The sad bit is that Amir Khan, one of the best value fighters we had/have will almost always be rated behind Naz because he will be known for his KO losses, even though he had better wins throughout his career.

He will always be rated behind Naz, and rightly so.

Deserter wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020, 06:33

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2020, 13:42 He stopped throwing combinations because the opponents were better. Why else would he not throw combinations?

Laziness? That's pitiful.

Idiotic statement. There is plenty of precedent for fighters falling in love with their power and neglecting their skills - Tyson is an obvious example, Honeyghan another.

But if you're losing, you're not going to choose to just throw one at a time if it's not working. He wasn't capable of throwing combinations against Barrera, or he would've done