BoxRec

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 19:03 Joshua isn't going to be shaving off 20 pounds of muscle. He probably weighed 225 when he was 14.

237 when not trying to make weight last fight . That is an easy 14lb water cut with that much muscle mass..

gregregegg wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:30

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 19:03 Joshua isn't going to be shaving off 20 pounds of muscle. He probably weighed 225 when he was 14.

237 when not trying to make weight last fight . That is an easy 14lb water cut with that much muscle mass..

Lol

I think he was around 225 when he won gold and once weighed 229 as a pro, he's gained a lot of weight in muscle though, not fat

gregregegg wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:30

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 19:03 Joshua isn't going to be shaving off 20 pounds of muscle. He probably weighed 225 when he was 14.

237 when not trying to make weight last fight . That is an easy 14lb water cut with that much muscle mass..

For some reason a lot of people here don't understand weight cutting.

Jorge Arce used to be 15 pounds heavier in the ring than he was at weigh-in, but somehow AJ couldn't do it? Ridiculous.

jujigatame wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:35

gregregegg wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:30

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 19:03 Joshua isn't going to be shaving off 20 pounds of muscle. He probably weighed 225 when he was 14.

237 when not trying to make weight last fight . That is an easy 14lb water cut with that much muscle mass..

For some reason a lot of people here don't understand weight cutting.

Jorge Arce used to be 15 pounds heavier in the ring than he was at weigh-in, but somehow AJ couldn't do it? Ridiculous.

Most sports fans, like yourself, don't understand weight cutting. That's why my biggest gambling win was pac/Oscar. Anyway, carry on, ignorance is bliss.

I dunno why you're being so stubborn about this. I've cut weight myself. I've trained with people who have cut weight repeatedly for years. I've followed MMA for 20 years where weight cutting is much more openly discussed than in boxing. Generally it involves no muscle loss. Guys get themselves into fighting shape, and then in the few days leading up weigh-in, they dehydrate themselves, and then they rehydrate in the 24-36 hours between weigh-in and fight.

Oscar/Pac was an extremely bizarre and unique situation. First, Oscar weighed in 2 pounds under the limit, which is very strange for someone cutting a lot of weight. Then the unofficial day-of-fight scales showed he'd only put on a few pounds overnight, which is even more strange. He clearly fucked something up very, very badly.

A much more common scenario is what Jorge Arce used to do, which is weigh in exactly at 115 and then the next day on the unofficial HBO scales he'd be like 130.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:33

gregregegg wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:30

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 19:03 Joshua isn't going to be shaving off 20 pounds of muscle. He probably weighed 225 when he was 14.

237 when not trying to make weight last fight . That is an easy 14lb water cut with that much muscle mass..

Lol

What’s the lol though? You don’t think a lean 240ish man can cut 15 lb water weight? In boxing people cut less cause it’s more bad than good but 15 lb is nothing.

In mma costa weighed in 185 night befor and fight night was 213... that’s obviously a massive cut. But yea if he can cut 28lb from 213 I think Aj can cut 14 from 237.... the 224 class is a joke and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

People think you gotta be fat to cut weight. But muscle holds water, the leaner you are the more you can cut.

gregregegg wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 02:08

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:33

gregregegg wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:30

237 when not trying to make weight last fight . That is an easy 14lb water cut with that much muscle mass..

Lol

What’s the lol though? You don’t think a lean 240ish man can cut 15 lb water weight? In boxing people cut less cause it’s more bad than good but 15 lb is nothing.

In mma costa weighed in 185 night befor and fight night was 213... that’s obviously a massive cut. But yea if he can cut 28lb from 213 I think Aj can cut 14 from 237.... the 224 class is a joke and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

People think you gotta be fat to cut weight. But muscle holds water, the leaner you are the more you can cut.

I've cut 12 pounds in a day. I'm quite aware of how it's done. I doubt aj ever has. Like I said, he could probably pull it off but I can't imagine him feeling great.

Yes, he would have to overly lean out to hit that weight. Anyway, not a big deal but past that division being a joke and no reason for him to look at it why in the world would he be a candidate looking at the rankings for someone you'd peg to do it? Ruiz would still be fat at 225.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 02:31

gregregegg wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 02:08

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 22:33
Lol

What’s the lol though? You don’t think a lean 240ish man can cut 15 lb water weight? In boxing people cut less cause it’s more bad than good but 15 lb is nothing.

In mma costa weighed in 185 night befor and fight night was 213... that’s obviously a massive cut. But yea if he can cut 28lb from 213 I think Aj can cut 14 from 237.... the 224 class is a joke and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

People think you gotta be fat to cut weight. But muscle holds water, the leaner you are the more you can cut.

I've cut 12 pounds in a day. I'm quite aware of how it's done. I doubt aj ever has. Like I said, he could probably pull it off but I can't imagine him feeling great.

Yes, he would have to overly lean out to hit that weight. Anyway, not a big deal but past that division being a joke and no reason for him to look at it why in the world would he be a candidate looking at the rankings for someone you'd peg to do it? Ruiz would still be fat at 225.

No he wouldent have to be any leaner than last fight. Would just have to do a very mellow water cut. 14lb for a 237 lb lean guy. That is nothing. I go from 190 to 180 on a decent hangover and i have duck all muscle mass.... muscle holds water, witch means if you wanna cut you can just fuk it off quite easily (too a point).

The AJ that fort Ruiz tHe second time could of very zvery easily made 224. Could of realy struggled to 214... and if he realy realy tried to kill himself could of gone sub 210 (not good for performance or health)...

gregregegg wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 03:47

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 02:31

gregregegg wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 02:08

What’s the lol though? You don’t think a lean 240ish man can cut 15 lb water weight? In boxing people cut less cause it’s more bad than good but 15 lb is nothing.

In mma costa weighed in 185 night befor and fight night was 213... that’s obviously a massive cut. But yea if he can cut 28lb from 213 I think Aj can cut 14 from 237.... the 224 class is a joke and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

People think you gotta be fat to cut weight. But muscle holds water, the leaner you are the more you can cut.

I've cut 12 pounds in a day. I'm quite aware of how it's done. I doubt aj ever has. Like I said, he could probably pull it off but I can't imagine him feeling great.

Yes, he would have to overly lean out to hit that weight. Anyway, not a big deal but past that division being a joke and no reason for him to look at it why in the world would he be a candidate looking at the rankings for someone you'd peg to do it? Ruiz would still be fat at 225.

No he wouldent have to be any leaner than last fight. Would just have to do a very mellow water cut. 14lb for a 237 lb lean guy. That is nothing. I go from 190 to 180 on a decent hangover and i have duck all muscle mass.... muscle holds water, witch means if you wanna cut you can just fuk it off quite easily (too a point).

The AJ that fort Ruiz tHe second time could of very zvery easily made 224. Could of realy struggled to 214... and if he realy realy tried to kill himself could of gone sub 210 (not good for performance or health)...

Anyone know the name of the new weight class?

If this just means more money for the sanctioning bodies, then is there any possible way in the universe that the WBA WOULDN'T do this as well? I expect the announcement soon.

Its called hw

New over 225 class is called "greatest fighters ever division since everyone knows size is all that matters"

H8Usernames wrote: ↑17 Oct 2020, 21:11 This is a step in the right direction but the correct way to do this would have been:

Super Cruiserweight 210 7.70%
Cruiserweight 195 5.40%
Jr Cruiserweight 185 5.70%
Light heavyweight 175 4.20%

Still one has to applaud the WBC for its vision and courage. It looks like the WBC has now shown why we need strong boxing organisation and I hope that this is the future, brave correct policymaking instead of only creating a bunch of bronze silver gold stone concrete titles etc and charging sanctioning fees for them.

Next on the agenda should be reducing ped testing which has wreaked havoc on this sport while not benefiting anyone.

lol

But, still it is more about fees then anything. But, some crusiers can't fight likes like AJ, Fury and so on. Some guys can't get bigger then crusiers and I do see the logic, but letting a corrupt org like WBC set the agenda in boxing is bad. Making another weightclass among what is it like 17 others. Well, some logic but they ain't fixing boxing just adding more belts like the Diamond and franchie champ. And yeah their have always been a jump between HW and CW. Then again we do need more two-div champs. Selling them tricks and collecting them fees in raising stars.

My money is in supercrusier or some BS.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 12:00 Anyone know the name of the new weight class?

Heavyweight.

Over 225 will be Super Heavyweight.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 13:31

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 12:00 Anyone know the name of the new weight class?

Heavyweight.

Over 225 will be Super Heavyweight.

Ah, ok. I’d read an article with an interview of Sulamain saying it hadn’t been decided yet.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Oct 2020, 13:43Ah, ok. I’d read an article with an interview of Sulamain saying it hadn’t been decided yet.

He talks about it here:

Heavyweight should be the top division...always...end of story.

I hate to say it but this is starting to seem like a big mistake to me. 224 for what? Lennox Lewis fought a few matches weighing that much. LL one of the biggest HW champions of all times and possibly the best.

If the WBC wants to modernize these weight divisions in baby steps then start with a 185 pound weight class and a 210 pound weight class but this 224 thing seems to not fix any of the problems that need fixing.

So what will it be? Junior Heavyweight?....Super Heavyweight (which BTW is a division in the amateurs)?

The statistics wholly justifies the WBC’s decision, which will inevitably result in the other governing bodies following suit in the near future.

So the WBC’s decision to introduce a new weight class to cater for small “heavyweights” was entirely expected.

The only thing I’m disappointed about is the heavyweight division being renamed (assuming the comments in this thread are correct). In my min,d it shouldn’t have been changed.

Mauricio Sulaimán should have named the new 224lbs weight class as “super-cruiserweight”. This would have protected the legacy and the prestige of the sports’ most important division.

For those that are interested, and I’m guessing nobody is (because they don’t want to acknowledge facts that don’t adhere to their preferred narrative), here are the stats I’m referring to (that support the WBC’s decision):

Deontay Wilder is pretty much the only fighter within the last decade (i.e. nine years and eleven months to be precise) to have successfully competed in world heavyweight title fights weighing 224lbs or less (and he only ever did it seven times).

Over the same timeframe, there have been 85 world championship bouts, with the average weight of the winner/champion being 242lbs, with the loser/failed challenger being 240lbs.

According to BoxRec, only eight men competed in those 85 world championship bouts weighing less than 224lbs:
• Deontay Wilder
• Tomasz Adamek
• Lateef Kayode
• Marco Huck
• Alexander Povetkin
• Jean Marc Mormeck
• David Haye
• Vyacheslav Glazkov

If you were to plot the data in a graph, according to the resulting trendline, typical heavyweight champions started weighing more than 224lbs about thirty years ago, from the early nineties onwards.

The same trendline, which is relatively linear, suggests that heavyweight champions have gained roughly 8lbs in weight every decade since 1964.

Therefore, the current disparity in weight between a cruiserweight weighing 200lbs and a typical heavyweight behemoth (weighing almost 250lbs) will continue to grow as time passes by. And something had to happen at some point to address that void. It would be incredibly naïve to believe otherwise.

Best punchers last 30 years. Tyson and wilder

Best hw last 30 years: holyfield

Guys in current top 10 who fight under 225:

Usyk
Wilder
Hinter
Povetkin

Current cw champ with 1 punch ko over hw contender and wba titlw holder: maris briedis

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑19 Oct 2020, 08:44 Best punchers last 30 years. Tyson and wilder

Best hw last 30 years: holyfield

Guys in current top 10 who fight under 225:

Usyk
Wilder
Hinter
Povetkin

Current cw champ with 1 punch ko over hw contender and wba titlw holder: maris briedis

For all the world heavyweight title bouts Holyfield successfully competed in during the 1990s, he typically weighed 214lbs, with his opposition weighing 235lbs. They weren’t as big as the guys competing today. And if you excluded overweight opponents, such as Holmes, Foreman and Douglas, a typical Evander foe only weighed 226lbs.

It’s sad to say this, but Mike Tyson’s best wins during the 1990s were against Donovan Ruddock (1991); Bruce Seldon (1996); and Frank Bruno (1996). He simply wasn’t one of the best heavyweights from the last thirty years (if we're only considering Mike's career from 1990 onwards).

Deontay Wilder and Michael Hunter both weighed more than 224lbs for their most recent outings, with the latter achieving nothing of note so far at heavyweight.

And whilst Alexander Povetkin weighed 224lbs against Dillian Whyte, he usually enters the ring slightly heavier than that.

As marvellous a fighter Oleksandr Usyk may indeed be, he hasn’t achieved anything at heavyweight yet. He hasn’t beaten anyone of any note. He’s unproven until he faces Chisora.

In terms of Mairis Breidis, are you seriously awarding him kudos for beating Mahmoud Charr?

Are you seriously trying to pretend that it’s commonplace for men weighing less than 224lbs enjoying success against world championship calibre opposition entering the ring weighing roughly 248lbs?

You dont watch boxing so you dont understand it

Biggest fight of the year and you are MIA. No prediction i saw, no breakdowns, no analysis.

You are a boxrec fan. Period

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑19 Oct 2020, 11:13 You dont watch boxing so you dont understand it

Biggest fight of the year and you are MIA. No prediction i saw, no breakdowns, no analysis.

You are a boxrec fan. Period

Which fight did I fail to make a prediction on?

And if the facts I've cited regarding heavyweights competing in title fights are inaccurate, then could you please detail the errors?

I’m pretty sure you’ll flatly refuse to even attempt to directly answer these relatively simple questions.