BoxRec

Joe Frazier vs Ali (Manila).

TheGman wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 14:58

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 00:04 Castillo in the first Corrales fight is worth mentioning

He is also worth a mention for the first Mayweather fight.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 00:04 Castillo in the first Corrales fight is worth mentioning

Which is why I did mention it mate... and Barrera/Morales as well

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 23:23

mayorcurley wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 10:13
I am sure if Johnny had survived that fight, he would have become a great world champion and the entire globe would have fallen in love with him.

Maybe not...the punishment he took in that bout was astonishing and it could all have gone downward for him after that.

But sadly we will never know anyways...

He really didn't get beaten badly. If you get a chance, rewatch the fight. One of the announcers said he was winning the fight in round 9 (before the knockdown) and it was Pintor that was showing more visible blood from two cut eyes.

Owen slows considerably from the knockdown in round 9. IMO, the ref and doctor blew this one. They were in the Grand Auditorium with a rabid pro-Pintor crowd and they threw Johnny to the dogs.

Richard Steele would have done the right thing.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑23 Oct 2020, 07:36

ShadrachSimmo wrote: ↑23 Oct 2020, 07:28 Vasquez vs Ritson.

That was just a robbery.

It wasnt a robbery by any stretch. Watch the fight with Smith and Macklin on mute and come back to me. I thought Vasquez won a close one, but robbery isnt right.

mayorcurley wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 06:41

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 23:23

mayorcurley wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 10:13
I am sure if Johnny had survived that fight, he would have become a great world champion and the entire globe would have fallen in love with him.

Maybe not...the punishment he took in that bout was astonishing and it could all have gone downward for him after that.

But sadly we will never know anyways...

He really didn't get beaten badly. If you get a chance, rewatch the fight. One of the announcers said he was winning the fight in round 9 (before the knockdown) and it was Pintor that was showing more visible blood from two cut eyes.

Owen slows considerably from the knockdown in round 9. IMO, the ref and doctor blew this one. They were in the Grand Auditorium with a rabid pro-Pintor crowd and they threw Johnny to the dogs.

Richard Steele would have done the right thing.

That is such a sad story. I read The Big If and watched a lot of Owen and Pintor. My honest opinion is that I can totally understand the fight being let go on, up until the second last knockdown. Owen is visibly hurt at the end of the 9th stumbles back to the corner but regroups well enough. He's taking shots in the next few rounds and at this stage he's not going to win the fight and he's in danger of being hurt. When he goes down again the fight should just be waved off. It's a really really tough call, so much on the line. The towel could have came in but I can understand why it didn't. The final knockdown is one of the worst I've seen. Maybe knowing the end result of it all makes it even worse but the way he just folds and slumps to the canvas.

The documentary where Pintor comes to Wales was very well done. Owens family were top notch to pintor.

In the book they say that the autopsy revealed that Owen had a thinner skull than usual. I can't remember entirely as it's about 10 years since I've read the book but I believe it was mentioned that due to this, Owen would have struggled to be licenced today. Correct me if I'm wrong. This puts it in context.

I remember watching Arthur gomez and thinking that the finish reminded me of something. It reminded me of the finish of Owen pintor.

mayorcurley wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 06:41

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 23:23

mayorcurley wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 10:13
I am sure if Johnny had survived that fight, he would have become a great world champion and the entire globe would have fallen in love with him.

Maybe not...the punishment he took in that bout was astonishing and it could all have gone downward for him after that.

But sadly we will never know anyways...

He really didn't get beaten badly. If you get a chance, rewatch the fight. One of the announcers said he was winning the fight in round 9 (before the knockdown) and it was Pintor that was showing more visible blood from two cut eyes.

Owen slows considerably from the knockdown in round 9. IMO, the ref and doctor blew this one. They were in the Grand Auditorium with a rabid pro-Pintor crowd and they threw Johnny to the dogs.

Richard Steele would have done the right thing.

Owen stood a better chance of dethroning WBA champ Jeff Chandler than WBC kingpin Pintor, whose strength and stamina were immense. Richie Sandoval proved against Chandler in 1984 that the way to beat him was to apply non-stop pressure and that's what Owen would have done. However, I don't think the Board was even affiliated to the WBA in 1980 when Owen challenged Pintor. I know that Alan Minter won the undisputed world middleweight title in 1980, which included the WBA title of course, but I believe that Colin Jones was the first Brit to fight directly for a WBA title against Don Curry in 1985. The Board wouldn't even allow Henry Cooper to challenge Jimmy Ellis for the WBA heavyweight title.
Whatever champion he fought, Owen was a disaster waiting to happen and it's something of a miracle it didn't happen sooner. The Welshman had over 100 bouts as an amateur, including one with Charlie Magri, who could really whack. As a pro, he defended his British title with a 10-round stoppage of Waterlooville's Wayne Evans, another prodigious puncher. At least Johnny died doing the thing he loved but nobody should die at the age of 24.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 05:32

mayorcurley wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 06:41

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 23:23

Maybe not...the punishment he took in that bout was astonishing and it could all have gone downward for him after that.

But sadly we will never know anyways...

He really didn't get beaten badly. If you get a chance, rewatch the fight. One of the announcers said he was winning the fight in round 9 (before the knockdown) and it was Pintor that was showing more visible blood from two cut eyes.

Owen slows considerably from the knockdown in round 9. IMO, the ref and doctor blew this one. They were in the Grand Auditorium with a rabid pro-Pintor crowd and they threw Johnny to the dogs.

Richard Steele would have done the right thing.

That is such a sad story. I read The Big If and watched a lot of Owen and Pintor. My honest opinion is that I can totally understand the fight being let go on, up until the second last knockdown. Owen is visibly hurt at the end of the 9th stumbles back to the corner but regroups well enough. He's taking shots in the next few rounds and at this stage he's not going to win the fight and he's in danger of being hurt. When he goes down again the fight should just be waved off. It's a really really tough call, so much on the line. The towel could have came in but I can understand why it didn't. The final knockdown is one of the worst I've seen. Maybe knowing the end result of it all makes it even worse but the way he just folds and slumps to the canvas.

The documentary where Pintor comes to Wales was very well done. Owens family were top notch to pintor.

In the book they say that the autopsy revealed that Owen had a thinner skull than usual. I can't remember entirely as it's about 10 years since I've read the book but I believe it was mentioned that due to this, Owen would have struggled to be licenced today. Correct me if I'm wrong. This puts it in context.

I remember watching Arthur gomez and thinking that the finish reminded me of something. It reminded me of the finish of Owen pintor.

Sorry mate, we must have posted around the same time and I missed your post. Yes, Owen would never get anywhere near a boxing ring today (as a pro) with the brain scans, etc, although Muhammad Ali somehow passed a brain scan prior to his fight with Larry Holmes. I think you only had to look at Johnny Owen to see that he was dangerously frail but people put it down to his obsessive training habits. He was hurt by the notoriously light-punching Dave Smith in defence of his British and Commonwealth titles in the summer of 1979 but came back to stop Smith in the 12th of a 15-rounder but maybe alarm bells should have been ringing after that one.

bennie wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 06:12

mayorcurley wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 06:41

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 23:23

Maybe not...the punishment he took in that bout was astonishing and it could all have gone downward for him after that.

But sadly we will never know anyways...

He really didn't get beaten badly. If you get a chance, rewatch the fight. One of the announcers said he was winning the fight in round 9 (before the knockdown) and it was Pintor that was showing more visible blood from two cut eyes.

Owen slows considerably from the knockdown in round 9. IMO, the ref and doctor blew this one. They were in the Grand Auditorium with a rabid pro-Pintor crowd and they threw Johnny to the dogs.

Richard Steele would have done the right thing.

Owen stood a better chance of dethroning WBA champ Jeff Chandler than WBC kingpin Pintor, whose strength and stamina were immense. Richie Sandoval proved against Chandler in 1984 that the way to beat him was to apply non-stop pressure and that's what Owen would have done. However, I don't think the Board was even affiliated to the WBA in 1980 when Owen challenged Pintor. I know that Alan Minter won the undisputed world middleweight title in 1980, which included the WBA title of course, but I believe that Colin Jones was the first Brit to fight directly for a WBA title against Don Curry in 1985. The Board wouldn't even allow Henry Cooper to challenge Jimmy Ellis for the WBA heavyweight title.
Whatever champion he fought, Owen was a disaster waiting to happen and it's something of a miracle it didn't happen sooner. The Welshman had over 100 bouts as an amateur, including one with Charlie Magri, who could really whack. As a pro, he defended his British title with a 10-round stoppage of Waterlooville's Wayne Evans, another prodigious puncher. At least Johnny died doing the thing he loved but nobody should die at the age of 24.

Pintor said the fight should have been stopped after 9.

This fight is similar to Chavez vs Taylor I. One fighter landing less but harder. The other fighter fighting like a whirlwind but swallowing blood and absorbing punishment.

Maybe back then, in 1980, they didn't stop fights like they should of but there were many warning signs.

Owen gets knocked down in 9th round by an explosive right hand after a grueling pace. Stumbles back to his corner. Gait disturbances are a sign of head trauma.

Rounds 10 thru 12 show Owen fighting gamely but lacking snap in his punches. Lots of good shots from Pintor. Head snapping shots. Owen is just too tough. Plus he's swallowing blood. Referee Marty Denkin had plenty of opportunities.

Then the second knockdown. Stumbling -- sign of head trauma. Glassy eyed. Owen has been showing visible signs now for 3 rounds.

I think Owen was knocked out in the 9th round. Just too tough to realize it.

The ref had plenty of chances to save the fighter and his corner from themselves. It's his job to protect the fighters.

I really wonder if it was his thin skull or bad officiating and management.

He needed a year more of seasoning fighting remotely, more time getting acclimated to climate and a better selecting of opponents.

I know this is in hindsight, forty years later, but just so damn sad.

mayorcurley wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 10:03

bennie wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 06:12

mayorcurley wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 06:41

He really didn't get beaten badly. If you get a chance, rewatch the fight. One of the announcers said he was winning the fight in round 9 (before the knockdown) and it was Pintor that was showing more visible blood from two cut eyes.

Owen slows considerably from the knockdown in round 9. IMO, the ref and doctor blew this one. They were in the Grand Auditorium with a rabid pro-Pintor crowd and they threw Johnny to the dogs.

Richard Steele would have done the right thing.

Owen stood a better chance of dethroning WBA champ Jeff Chandler than WBC kingpin Pintor, whose strength and stamina were immense. Richie Sandoval proved against Chandler in 1984 that the way to beat him was to apply non-stop pressure and that's what Owen would have done. However, I don't think the Board was even affiliated to the WBA in 1980 when Owen challenged Pintor. I know that Alan Minter won the undisputed world middleweight title in 1980, which included the WBA title of course, but I believe that Colin Jones was the first Brit to fight directly for a WBA title against Don Curry in 1985. The Board wouldn't even allow Henry Cooper to challenge Jimmy Ellis for the WBA heavyweight title.
Whatever champion he fought, Owen was a disaster waiting to happen and it's something of a miracle it didn't happen sooner. The Welshman had over 100 bouts as an amateur, including one with Charlie Magri, who could really whack. As a pro, he defended his British title with a 10-round stoppage of Waterlooville's Wayne Evans, another prodigious puncher. At least Johnny died doing the thing he loved but nobody should die at the age of 24.

Pintor said the fight should have been stopped after 9.

This fight is similar to Chavez vs Taylor I. One fighter landing less but harder. The other fighter fighting like a whirlwind but swallowing blood and absorbing punishment.

Maybe back then, in 1980, they didn't stop fights like they should of but there were many warning signs.

Owen gets knocked down in 9th round by an explosive right hand after a grueling pace. Stumbles back to his corner. Gait disturbances are a sign of head trauma.

Rounds 10 thru 12 show Owen fighting gamely but lacking snap in his punches. Lots of good shots from Pintor. Head snapping shots. Owen is just too tough. Plus he's swallowing blood. Referee Marty Denkin had plenty of opportunities.

Then the second knockdown. Stumbling -- sign of head trauma. Glassy eyed. Owen has been showing visible signs now for 3 rounds.

I think Owen was knocked out in the 9th round. Just too tough to realize it.

The ref had plenty of chances to save the fighter and his corner from themselves. It's his job to protect the fighters.

I really wonder if it was his thin skull or bad officiating and management.

He needed a year more of seasoning fighting remotely, more time getting acclimated to climate and a better selecting of opponents.

I know this is in hindsight, forty years later, but just so damn sad.

Tim Mo of Boxing News tipped Owen to win, which surprised me at the time because their one respective opponent, a squat New Yorker by the name of Davey Vasquez, had been levelled in two rounds by Pintor while Owen could only outpoint him. Mo glossed over that fact in his preview but he only worked Mondays and Tuesdays at Boxing News, banging out the previews and then concentrating on his novels for the rest of the week.
Pintor was still unproven as a world champion after two successful defences, one of them a draw in Japan and the other, a 12-round stoppage of the overrated and light-hitting Alberto Sandoval. He was actually beaten in a non-title encounter (cuts) against someone called Manuel Vasquez, who had him on the deck. It was hardly the stuff of legend. Moreover, Pintor had looked desperately lucky to win the WBC title from fellow Mexican Carlos Zarate in the summer of 1979 in Las Vegas on a 15-round split decision. Nobody looked more surprised at the verdict than Pintor himself, who had to be shoved out of his corner and into the spotlight.
History now tells us that Pintor was an outstanding world bantamweight champion and a man who never lost his title in the ring, relinquishing after a bad motorbike crash. He later moved up to super-bantamweight and won a world title there. He was always going to beat Owen and no blame was levelled on referee Marty Denkin at the time, a vastly experienced official, nor on Dai Gardiner in the Owen corner. Gardiner was so upset that he quit the sport for several years. The sad thing is, even if they had pulled Owen out before the final knockdown, I fear that the Welshman would still have died sooner or later.

Regardless of who he picked in his previews, I loved reading Tim Mo’s stuff in Boxing News. Pithy writing that really communicated the ebb and flow of fights. Haven’t tackled one of his novels yet, though.

Yvon Durelle v Archie Moore, if no-one’s mentioned it already.

Corbyn in 2017?
Sorry, wrong website.

olij999 wrote: ↑30 Oct 2020, 11:21 Regardless of who he picked in his previews, I loved reading Tim Mo’s stuff in Boxing News. Pithy writing that really communicated the ebb and flow of fights. Haven’t tackled one of his novels yet, though.

One of his novels was shortlisted for the Booker Prize. Tim is one of the many highly intelligent men who are surprisingly attracted to boxing. He worked at Boxing News for much of the 1970s and all through the 1980s with his great friend Harry Mullan. The pair really had to graft when Graham Houston was editor, making their way up the motorway to cover Ron Gray shows at the Wolverhampton Civic Hall which featured Pat Cowdell and Tony Sibson, with Tim typing out his report by torchlight on the journey back. He says those journeys gave him bags under his eyes but the pace slackened when Houston emigrated to Canada and Mullan was made editor, with Mullan challenging the boxing establishment instead of backing it and Tim working part-time but still as hard as he could for the newspaper, as it was classed back then. For me Boxing News really peaked in 1979 with Mo, Mullan and Bob Mee all strutting their stuff and Houston covering the American scene. The issues that year are unbelievable.

Kessler and Hopkins v Calzaghe

Groves vs. Froch.. Maybe even both times..

Eubank v Thompson was magnificent

handsofstone wrote: ↑23 Oct 2020, 17:58 Been watching a lot of Wayne McCullough lately and TBF he was always second best at the top level, great world title win in Japan against Yakushiji but that was at Bantamweight, all his other world title fights came at Super Bantam and Feather and in TBF apart from the first Larios Fight he was well beaten but the heart he showed, fitness and granite chin, he got schooled by Zaragoza but gave a good account of himself against Hamed and Morales, took a beating from Harrison but somehow went the distance, Larios was the first guy to stop him in the rematch, McCullough just faded but in the 4th he threw 170 punches in a round, compubox record, 180 seconds in a round

yea i think thats why we bought in to him he was an under dog who would take it to you from the first bell to the last

Deserter wrote: ↑23 Oct 2020, 16:23

knockout wrote: ↑23 Oct 2020, 16:13 The loser in any of the Gatti v Ward fights :)

I see you and I raise you...

Barrera vs morales

morales v pac man