BoxRec

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:10 Is it really easier for some folks to believe that Julie Lederman was paid off than to believe that she’s just not that good of a judge and scored a fight too wide albeit with the right result?

Conspiracy theories run rampant these days in all other facets of internet life. Not surprised to see more of them eek into boxing.

No question, nobody committing that kind of fraud would pay someone to make it look suspicious! Lopez beat god in every aspect, no need for judge fixing. Bought here would be anything with Lopez not winning.

Interesting comment by Luke Campbell on the latest Pug and Copp pod. He doubled down on his comments that Loma was never the same after his fight. Anybody buying this? I never took that close of a look but now I’m curious.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:18

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:10 Is it really easier for some folks to believe that Julie Lederman was paid off than to believe that she’s just not that good of a judge and scored a fight too wide albeit with the right result?

Conspiracy theories run rampant these days in all other facets of internet life. Not surprised to see more of them eek into boxing.

No question, nobody committing that kind of fraud would pay someone to make it look suspicious! Lopez beat god in every aspect, no need for judge fixing. Bought here would be anything with Lopez not winning.

Yeah and it ain't the first time Julie gave a "what the f*ck" scorecard.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:31

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:18

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:10 Is it really easier for some folks to believe that Julie Lederman was paid off than to believe that she’s just not that good of a judge and scored a fight too wide albeit with the right result?

Conspiracy theories run rampant these days in all other facets of internet life. Not surprised to see more of them eek into boxing.

No question, nobody committing that kind of fraud would pay someone to make it look suspicious! Lopez beat god in every aspect, no need for judge fixing. Bought here would be anything with Lopez not winning.

Yeah and it ain't the first time Julie gave a "what the f*ck" scorecard.

Bro, your boy ain't the greatest at anything professional, I know that day you jerked off to loma 14 times is fresh, get over it.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:38

gilgamesh wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:31

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:18



No question, nobody committing that kind of fraud would pay someone to make it look suspicious! Lopez beat god in every aspect, no need for judge fixing. Bought here would be anything with Lopez not winning.

Yeah and it ain't the first time Julie gave a "what the f*ck" scorecard.

Bro, your boy ain't the greatest at anything professional, I know that day you jerked off to loma 14 times is fresh, get over it.

???

I was just commenting on Julie's credibility as a judge. I've never been excited enough about any Boxer to masturbate about it

gilgamesh wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:45

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:38

gilgamesh wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:31

Yeah and it ain't the first time Julie gave a "what the f*ck" scorecard.

Bro, your boy ain't the greatest at anything professional, I know that day you jerked off to loma 14 times is fresh, get over it.

???

I was just commenting on Julie's credibility as a judge. I've never been excited enough about any Boxer to masturbate about it

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:10 Is it really easier for some folks to believe that Julie Lederman was paid off than to believe that she’s just not that good of a judge and scored a fight too wide albeit with the right result?

Conspiracy theories run rampant these days in all other facets of internet life. Not surprised to see more of them eek into boxing.

I take your point, and I should perhaps say she more than likely just leaned her scoring toward the fighter the promoter (in this case, Arum) preferred to win. Let's put the possibility of overt corruption to one side. Unfortunately there are strong incentives of scoring the fights "the right way" which gets you invited back to score more big fights, such as getting to enjoy the meals and hotels, etc. etc. that come with the position. And I'm sure the promoters are well aware of this too.

Now as for conspiracy theories, I think this one is pretty transparent:

2014 Bob Arum said this about Lederman:
“She should never be allowed to work in Nevada again….Her scorecard for Chaves is an absolute disgrace …[She was appointed] because they let these [expletive] Showtime guys put a fight on the same night that we did it. They don’t have enough judges. They don’t have enough referees. They want to accommodate both parties. Why? Because they’ll do anything the [expletive] MGM asks them to do.”


2020 Lederman is scoring the biggest fight of the year, one which involves not one, but two Bob Arum fighters. And she then puts in another wild card that just so happens to suit Arum's interests. Arum says this:
…what kind of fight was she watching,…these judges are the craziest…I would advise any fighter I would have to ask the commission not to appoint her…”

Something is off about that don't you think?

Personally, I think they do it because they can, and they have learnt over the decades that people just accept these terrible cards as part of boxing.

p.s. Arum makes me laugh when he comes out with these comments, as he's neck deep in the swill and keeps throwing mud.

Finkel wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 23:50

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:10 Is it really easier for some folks to believe that Julie Lederman was paid off than to believe that she’s just not that good of a judge and scored a fight too wide albeit with the right result?

Conspiracy theories run rampant these days in all other facets of internet life. Not surprised to see more of them eek into boxing.

I take your point, and I should perhaps say she more than likely just leaned her scoring toward the fighter the promoter (in this case, Arum) preferred to win. Let's put the possibility of overt corruption to one side. Unfortunately there are strong incentives of scoring the fights "the right way" which gets you invited back to score more big fights, such as getting to enjoy the meals and hotels, etc. etc. that come with the position. And I'm sure the promoters are well aware of this too.

Now as for conspiracy theories, I think this one is pretty transparent:

2014 Bob Arum said this about Lederman:
“She should never be allowed to work in Nevada again….Her scorecard for Chaves is an absolute disgrace …[She was appointed] because they let these [expletive] Showtime guys put a fight on the same night that we did it. They don’t have enough judges. They don’t have enough referees. They want to accommodate both parties. Why? Because they’ll do anything the [expletive] MGM asks them to do.”


2020 Lederman is scoring the biggest fight of the year, one which involves not one, but two Bob Arum fighters. And she then puts in another wild card that just so happens to suit Arum's interests. Arum says this:
…what kind of fight was she watching,…these judges are the craziest…I would advise any fighter I would have to ask the commission not to appoint her…”

Something is off about that don't you think?

Personally, I think they do it because they can, and they have learnt over the decades that people just accept these terrible cards as part of boxing.

Fair enough to point out Arum’s hypocrisy with regards to Lederman but as to your second point I think you’re missing a key factual detail.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but did Julie Lederman not score every televised fight in the Top Rank Bubble this summer? I seem to remember her and the other two judges in this fight being on pretty much every card. This was done to further insulate the bubble.

Again please correct me if thats wrong. But I’m fairly certain that’s how she got cast as a judge for Lopez-Loma and not an overt pick by Arum to knowingly nab a really bad judge.

Commissions appoint the judges, not the promoters.

On one hand I watched the fight and saw a Lopez win.
However, to suggest there is no chance of judges [If you can call them that]rigging fights in this sport is utterly absurd.
It's literally part and parcel of the sport and been going on for decades, I've actually been present at a big event in the last number of years when it happened in back to back fights on the same card.
There's no question at all and an overwhelming amount of evidence to support it.

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 23:58

Finkel wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 23:50

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 13:10 Is it really easier for some folks to believe that Julie Lederman was paid off than to believe that she’s just not that good of a judge and scored a fight too wide albeit with the right result?

Conspiracy theories run rampant these days in all other facets of internet life. Not surprised to see more of them eek into boxing.

I take your point, and I should perhaps say she more than likely just leaned her scoring toward the fighter the promoter (in this case, Arum) preferred to win. Let's put the possibility of overt corruption to one side. Unfortunately there are strong incentives of scoring the fights "the right way" which gets you invited back to score more big fights, such as getting to enjoy the meals and hotels, etc. etc. that come with the position. And I'm sure the promoters are well aware of this too.

Now as for conspiracy theories, I think this one is pretty transparent:

2014 Bob Arum said this about Lederman:
“She should never be allowed to work in Nevada again….Her scorecard for Chaves is an absolute disgrace …[She was appointed] because they let these [expletive] Showtime guys put a fight on the same night that we did it. They don’t have enough judges. They don’t have enough referees. They want to accommodate both parties. Why? Because they’ll do anything the [expletive] MGM asks them to do.”


2020 Lederman is scoring the biggest fight of the year, one which involves not one, but two Bob Arum fighters. And she then puts in another wild card that just so happens to suit Arum's interests. Arum says this:
…what kind of fight was she watching,…these judges are the craziest…I would advise any fighter I would have to ask the commission not to appoint her…”

Something is off about that don't you think?

Personally, I think they do it because they can, and they have learnt over the decades that people just accept these terrible cards as part of boxing.

Fair enough to point out Arum’s hypocrisy with regards to Lederman but as to your second point I think you’re missing a key factual detail.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but did Julie Lederman not score every televised fight in the Top Rank Bubble this summer? I seem to remember her and the other two judges in this fight being on pretty much every card. This was done to further insulate the bubble.

Again please correct me if thats wrong. But I’m fairly certain that’s how she got cast as a judge for Lopez-Loma and not an overt pick by Arum to knowingly nab a really bad judge.

You are correct that she judged a number of fights in the bubble but not every fight, there were a number of different judges involved including a certain Adelaide Byrd.

Though I don't disagree with Onetimeonly above that the commission choose the judges, there is definitely influence from the promoters and either fight camp.

And the selection itself is really suspicious, given Julie Lederman is a New York resident.
For example in football/soccer the officials are not allowed to adjudicate their hometown club's matches due to issues of bias. And yet in a sport that has such subjective judging such as boxing, it is allowed...

Also as an aside I noticed Steve Weisman the judge who gave the 9-3 is from New Jersey.

Were there really no other judges available except ones from Teofemo Lopez's home state and the neighbouring one?

It's all very suspect if you ask me.

Finkel wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 06:41

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 23:58

Finkel wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 23:50

I take your point, and I should perhaps say she more than likely just leaned her scoring toward the fighter the promoter (in this case, Arum) preferred to win. Let's put the possibility of overt corruption to one side. Unfortunately there are strong incentives of scoring the fights "the right way" which gets you invited back to score more big fights, such as getting to enjoy the meals and hotels, etc. etc. that come with the position. And I'm sure the promoters are well aware of this too.

Now as for conspiracy theories, I think this one is pretty transparent:

2014 Bob Arum said this about Lederman:
“She should never be allowed to work in Nevada again….Her scorecard for Chaves is an absolute disgrace …[She was appointed] because they let these [expletive] Showtime guys put a fight on the same night that we did it. They don’t have enough judges. They don’t have enough referees. They want to accommodate both parties. Why? Because they’ll do anything the [expletive] MGM asks them to do.”


2020 Lederman is scoring the biggest fight of the year, one which involves not one, but two Bob Arum fighters. And she then puts in another wild card that just so happens to suit Arum's interests. Arum says this:
…what kind of fight was she watching,…these judges are the craziest…I would advise any fighter I would have to ask the commission not to appoint her…”

Something is off about that don't you think?

Personally, I think they do it because they can, and they have learnt over the decades that people just accept these terrible cards as part of boxing.

Fair enough to point out Arum’s hypocrisy with regards to Lederman but as to your second point I think you’re missing a key factual detail.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but did Julie Lederman not score every televised fight in the Top Rank Bubble this summer? I seem to remember her and the other two judges in this fight being on pretty much every card. This was done to further insulate the bubble.

Again please correct me if thats wrong. But I’m fairly certain that’s how she got cast as a judge for Lopez-Loma and not an overt pick by Arum to knowingly nab a really bad judge.

You are correct that she judged a number of fights in the bubble but not every fight, there were a number of different judges involved including a certain Adelaide Byrd.

Though I don't disagree with Onetimeonly above that the commission choose the judges, there is definitely influence from the promoters and either fight camp.

And the selection itself is really suspicious, given Julie Lederman is a New York resident.
For example in football/soccer the officials are not allowed to adjudicate their hometown club's matches due to issues of bias. And yet in a sport that has such subjective judging such as boxing, it is allowed...

Also as an aside I noticed Steve Weisman the judge who gave the 9-3 is from New Jersey.

Were there really no other judges available except ones from Teofemo Lopez's home state and the neighbouring one?

It's all very suspect if you ask me.

Judging has always sucked, they aren't given the best opportunity to prove themselves above corruption. I do have to say, I think it was counterpuncher that posted it years ago, back in the day incompetence went both ways.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 09:52

Finkel wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 06:41

bobcatbox wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 23:58 Fair enough to point out Arum’s hypocrisy with regards to Lederman but as to your second point I think you’re missing a key factual detail.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but did Julie Lederman not score every televised fight in the Top Rank Bubble this summer? I seem to remember her and the other two judges in this fight being on pretty much every card. This was done to further insulate the bubble.

Again please correct me if thats wrong. But I’m fairly certain that’s how she got cast as a judge for Lopez-Loma and not an overt pick by Arum to knowingly nab a really bad judge.

You are correct that she judged a number of fights in the bubble but not every fight, there were a number of different judges involved including a certain Adelaide Byrd.

Though I don't disagree with Onetimeonly above that the commission choose the judges, there is definitely influence from the promoters and either fight camp.

And the selection itself is really suspicious, given Julie Lederman is a New York resident.
For example in football/soccer the officials are not allowed to adjudicate their hometown club's matches due to issues of bias. And yet in a sport that has such subjective judging such as boxing, it is allowed...

Also as an aside I noticed Steve Weisman the judge who gave the 9-3 is from New Jersey.

Were there really no other judges available except ones from Teofemo Lopez's home state and the neighbouring one?

It's all very suspect if you ask me.

Judging has always sucked, they aren't given the best opportunity to prove themselves above corruption. I do have to say, I think it was counterpuncher that posted it years ago, back in the day incompetence went both ways.

2 great consecutive posts!

Yes, the fact that this blatant 'incompetence' keeps going against the 'b side' fighters must be another random anomaly.

It must be. Nothing to see. Let's forgive and forget, move on, plenty of tickets still available.