Coco wrote: ↑21 Mar 2021, 18:00
Brain scans still aren't really understood.
Almost everyone passes the first one but then after that with your annual medical they look for changes.
They don't really know what the changes mean but they are regarded as bad, too much change and you fail it.
This is an excellent post.
Brain scans are all about looking for changes between scans. They don’t anticipate if you have a susceptibility to being hit.
What I find odd though is how rare it seems to be for established fighters to fail brain scans. James Toney boxed in the UK in 2013 in the prize fighter tournament and Toney's speech sounded really slurred. Surely thats a sign of brain damage more than a scan!
Can anyone think of an example of a top 10 rated fighter, in their prime, having to quit due to a brain scan failure?
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 22 Mar 2021, 09:50
by Coco
Barrera fought Khan with a plate in his head!
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 22 Mar 2021, 10:24
by Controversial
Coco wrote: ↑22 Mar 2021, 09:50
Barrera fought Khan with a plate in his head!
Coco wrote: ↑21 Mar 2021, 18:00
Brain scans still aren't really understood.
Almost everyone passes the first one but then after that with your annual medical they look for changes.
They don't really know what the changes mean but they are regarded as bad, too much change and you fail it.
This is an excellent post.
Brain scans are all about looking for changes between scans. They don’t anticipate if you have a susceptibility to being hit.
What I find odd though is how rare it seems to be for established fighters to fail brain scans. James Toney boxed in the UK in 2013 in the prize fighter tournament and Toney's speech sounded really slurred. Surely thats a sign of brain damage more than a scan!
Can anyone think of an example of a top 10 rated fighter, in their prime, having to quit due to a brain scan failure?
Ray Close. Right before the third fight with Eubank.
They did something to cover up Nigel Benn’s scan some time after the McClellan fight because it showed scar tissue on the brain.
Brain scans are all about looking for changes between scans. They don’t anticipate if you have a susceptibility to being hit.
What I find odd though is how rare it seems to be for established fighters to fail brain scans. James Toney boxed in the UK in 2013 in the prize fighter tournament and Toney's speech sounded really slurred. Surely thats a sign of brain damage more than a scan!
Can anyone think of an example of a top 10 rated fighter, in their prime, having to quit due to a brain scan failure?
Ray Close. Right before the third fight with Eubank.
They did something to cover up Nigel Benn’s scan some time after the McClellan fight because it showed scar tissue on the brain.
How do they cover it up though, surely a doctors report is independent?
Using Toney as an example, it amazes me anyone licenses them when they struggle to speak coherently. Even as a fighter wouldn't you know you are slurring, sad really that they carry on regardless, that would scare the life out of me. I'd love to know what tests they do though and how they differ from other countries, do they test reflexes, speech etc or literally just compare previous scans?
Ray Close moved to America and boxed there instead, says it all really how messed up it all is!
What I find odd though is how rare it seems to be for established fighters to fail brain scans. James Toney boxed in the UK in 2013 in the prize fighter tournament and Toney's speech sounded really slurred. Surely thats a sign of brain damage more than a scan!
Can anyone think of an example of a top 10 rated fighter, in their prime, having to quit due to a brain scan failure?
Ray Close. Right before the third fight with Eubank.
They did something to cover up Nigel Benn’s scan some time after the McClellan fight because it showed scar tissue on the brain.
How do they cover it up though, surely a doctors report is independent?
Using Toney as an example, it amazes me anyone licenses them when they struggle to speak coherently. Even as a fighter wouldn't you know you are slurring, sad really that they carry on regardless, that would scare the life out of me. I'd love to know what tests they do though and how they differ from other countries, do they test reflexes, speech etc or literally just compare previous scans?
Ray Close moved to America and boxed there instead, says it all really how messed up it all is!
Probably Tony Tucker and Carlton Leach threatened somebody.
tonyevs wrote: ↑21 Mar 2021, 04:19
I think we have all met the guys with the slurry speech in the gym. Some of them with reputations of having boxed pro, but also some you hear were a 'top school boy'.
I work with clients who have had various types of brain injuries. Stroke; alcohol, and some from trauma of having their brain rattled inside their skull. The frontal lobes are easily damaged, and because of the nature of their functioning (problem solving & decision making for example) damage is typically not noticed by the person.
I boxed/fought amateur for 4-5yrs, but was in the gym on & off sparring for maybe 15-20 years; it does concern me if there is damage there that will only show itself as my cognitive ability diminishes with senescence.
You can put your phone in a case to protect it if it gets dropped, and often it will survive on those occasions it does get dropped .. but you know if you dropping it often enough you are going to be buying a new one sooner rather than later.
Exactly, it’s funny how many boxing fans admit they have concerns about brain trauma, either to themselves or others but we all quite happily sit a watch guys being hit and knocked out. It’s a difficult one to reason in your head I think and again it seems to be a concerns from older guys, not youngster so much. Wisdom is wasted on the old as the saying goes.
This is why justifying the sport by saying the competitors have chosen to compete and know the risks doesn’t hold.
When you are young and hungry with ambition you don’t assess the risks correctly.
Risk taking is like a drug though, I live on the Isle of Man and I've spoke to a fair few TT competitors and some of them have said to me that they know they have no chance of winning or even getting into the top 15 but to them it's the buzz and the thrill, in fact one of them said to me that "knowing that I could be killed at any time gives me a feeling money can't buy, and every year I want more of it, even if it eventually kills me" - and that's from a married man with 2 young children.
Exactly, it’s funny how many boxing fans admit they have concerns about brain trauma, either to themselves or others but we all quite happily sit a watch guys being hit and knocked out. It’s a difficult one to reason in your head I think and again it seems to be a concerns from older guys, not youngster so much. Wisdom is wasted on the old as the saying goes.
This is why justifying the sport by saying the competitors have chosen to compete and know the risks doesn’t hold.
When you are young and hungry with ambition you don’t assess the risks correctly.
Risk taking is like a drug though, I live on the Isle of Man and I've spoke to a fair few TT competitors and some of them have said to me that they know they have no chance of winning or even getting into the top 15 but to them it's the buzz and the thrill, in fact one of them said to me that "knowing that I could be killed at any time gives me a feeling money can't buy, and every year I want more of it, even if it eventually kills me" - and that's from a married man with 2 young children.
Drug themselves are a parallel.
We (society/government/lawmakers) take away an individuals right to choose to take drugs, because they are deemed too dangerous.
This is why justifying the sport by saying the competitors have chosen to compete and know the risks doesn’t hold.
When you are young and hungry with ambition you don’t assess the risks correctly.
Risk taking is like a drug though, I live on the Isle of Man and I've spoke to a fair few TT competitors and some of them have said to me that they know they have no chance of winning or even getting into the top 15 but to them it's the buzz and the thrill, in fact one of them said to me that "knowing that I could be killed at any time gives me a feeling money can't buy, and every year I want more of it, even if it eventually kills me" - and that's from a married man with 2 young children.
Drug themselves are a parallel.
We (society/government/lawmakers) take away an individuals right to choose to take drugs, because they are deemed too dangerous.
Drugs should be legal. Trying to keep them illegal does much more harm than good.
coghaugen11 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2021, 12:14
Remember the PBA in 93? McGuigan, Eubank, McMillan, McDonnell
I was a pro in that time and it was felt that these folk were looking for a job.
I don't remember Eubank being involved
No, Eubank wasn't involved. The PBA's management committee was made up of Barry McGuigan, Nicky Piper, Jim McDonnell, Colin McMillan, Mark Kaylor and rookie pro Kent Davis. Formed in 1993, it lasted about five minutes.
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 24 Mar 2021, 14:51
by Noxy
Why? What happened with the PBA? It just didn't take off?
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 24 Mar 2021, 15:09
by coghaugen11
It was still around in 97-98
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 24 Mar 2021, 16:58
by Steveh583
Coco wrote: ↑22 Mar 2021, 09:50
Barrera fought Khan with a plate in his head!
if i remember rightly, it was WAY before khan. it was even before the Naz fight i think. and it wasn't a plate but like a protective cap around a vein. i could be wrong tho.
its still unbelievable he fought after an op like that
Coco wrote: ↑22 Mar 2021, 09:50
Barrera fought Khan with a plate in his head!
if i remember rightly, it was WAY before khan. it was even before the Naz fight i think. and it wasn't a plate but like a protective cap around a vein. i could be wrong tho.
its still unbelievable he fought after an op like that
He had that op in 1997 when his record was 43-2, so plenty of fights with that plate as he retired with a 67-7 and 1 ND record
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 03:18
by bennie
Noxy wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 14:51
Why? What happened with the PBA? It just didn't take off?
No idea, mate. It was a fantastic idea but I can imagine the managers and promoters weren't happy about it and there didn't seem to be much backing from the Board.
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 20:14
by brilo33
REEVE wrote: ↑21 Mar 2021, 10:47
I boxed from being a teenager, but took it seriosuly later had my first fight at 21 last at 33 and didnt give head injuries a thought.
Since i failed my brain scan with cte i worry quite a but about the future, the sparring does WAY more damage then the fights.
sorry to hear that mate,yea i had mate he was boxing from teens to in to his 20s when they offered i think it was ABA but he never went for it as he thought wasnt good enough no point taking all those head shots, he is cleavery smater than me as if i was as good as him i would of gone for it , do you mind me asking, would you have still gone for it now but had more success would you give up brain damage in later life for a world title in ur 20s, as some one in there 30s i would say yes i ,but there would but loads of different angles
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 09 Apr 2021, 17:26
by Controversial
This doesn’t seem to be big news but anyone see the news in America that ex-NFL defensive back Phillip Adams shot dead a family of five the other day and then killed himself, they are now going to examine his brain for possible CTE issues.
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 09 Apr 2021, 18:10
by margaret thatcher
wasnt there a lot of talk that crippling chris benoit (killed himself and his family) had the same issue
and jermain taylor is a guy you gotta wonder about, seems like a totally different guy than he used to be
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 10 Apr 2021, 05:38
by polecateddy
There’s a good Netflix documentary series on Netflix - Killer Inside: The Mind of Aaron Hernandez:
Yet another American Football CTE case with a murderous twist.
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 10 Apr 2021, 06:29
by high tower 1
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑09 Apr 2021, 18:10
wasnt there a lot of talk that crippling chris benoit (killed himself and his family) had the same issue
and jermain taylor is a guy you gotta wonder about, seems like a totally different guy than he used to be
Jermaine Taylor is shocking. I remember reading about him
Being a clean living mild mannered athlete. Now he’s running around shooting guns at people. Truly a sad case.
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 10 Apr 2021, 10:33
by Controversial
It does make you wonder the more awareness there is, and better research around brain injures in sport, how this will impact on boxing down the road. If they are banning children heading a football under a certain age then they can't exactly say it's ok for children to be punched in the head.
Re: Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?
Posted: 10 Apr 2021, 10:39
by Noxy
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑09 Apr 2021, 18:10
wasnt there a lot of talk that crippling chris benoit (killed himself and his family) had the same issue
and jermain taylor is a guy you gotta wonder about, seems like a totally different guy than he used to be
Meldrick Taylor, one of my favorite fighters. His speech is really bad now.