BoxRec

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 17:18

mickey1975 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 16:36 I’m losing faith in this forum. Groves was handled perfectly, mainly by himself.

how though he got smashed in his 2 nd biggest fight , and by laws of averages he shouldnt of come back from that at all

Losing some big fights isn’t always indicative, of bad management. Groves might have lost to Froch but that’s because he wasn’t quite good enough and his lack of a top trainer.

He fought and beat Degale in a ppv headliner, had 2 massive fights with Froch (including selling out Wembley) where he would have made a fortune and then he won a world title and then made another several million in the WBSS.

Yep, Groves is the complete opposite to this topic.

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:51

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:44

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:36

really i remember seing yarde wining at the copperbox thinking world champ possible , i dont think he is that great really he got to fight kovalev, i mean how much further could he of gone, i think kell brook was badly managed

But the way his management chose to match him up to that point meant he was completely unprepared to fight Kovalev (who, arguably, was there for the taking). And that was clearly a conscious decision too: fighting complete non-threats and then hoping he could jump up several levels at once.

yea i get that, that is why i was asking what classed as bad management, but that is the same point i was making with groves v froch froch nearly killed him in the 2nd fight, if groves would of fought froch 1st fight , 2 years older than he did i reckon he would of won , boxers like eubank jr are more famous than groves and its not right groves should be up there with the best boxers the country has ever had

Eubank Jr is more famous than Groves because his name is Eubank; no other reason.

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 17:18

mickey1975 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 16:36 I’m losing faith in this forum. Groves was handled perfectly, mainly by himself.

how though he got smashed in his 2 nd biggest fight , and by laws of averages he shouldnt of come back from that at all

What is your definition of good management, and how does losing a big fight mean it has not happened?

maverick23 wrote: ↑01 May 2021, 03:38

He fought and beat Degale in a ppv headliner, had 2 massive fights with Froch (including selling out Wembley) where he would have made a fortune and then he won a world title and then made another several million in the WBSS.

and this is a badly-managed career?

Becoming a millionaire is never a badly managed career. You are in the 0.01 percent that get rich out of Boxing.

Groves played the game very, very well. He's an intelligent man.

emallini wrote: ↑01 May 2021, 06:38 Becoming a millionaire is never a badly managed career. You are in the 0.01 percent that get rich out of Boxing.

Don't disagree but I do wonder what the percentage chance is of getting rich if you start off as a super heavyweight amateur? I'd say there is no other sport with a higher percentage chance of making a million plus if you take that division in isolation.

The ones who never made decent money, as a professional athlete my main aim would be to make as much money as possible, honours are irrelevant.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑01 May 2021, 06:02 Yep, Groves is the complete opposite to this topic.

GG's career panned out soundly whoever managed him.

No mention of any ex-Don King fighters on the thread ? The epitome of scumbag along with his (step)son.

Tim Witherspoon one of his worst victims. Signs for £400,000 net guaranteed v Bruno, ends up with 90K in his mitts after The
Kings had done their sums. One of many shaftings for the likeable boxer.

Read up on the excellent Saoul Mamby. Scandelous treatment.

NoScoutingReports wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 04:51 Jack Catterall is a decent fighter but I don't think he's been matched too well in terms of preparation for a potential world title shot after the Taylor/Ramirez unification - yeah he's got the ranking with the WBO but the lack of a real testing step up fight (or two) could really cost him if he gets a shot at world level once the belts fragment/Taylor or Ramirez moves up to 147.

He's not really world level so for him to get to this spot to me is a sign of good management. When you get a possible shot
of a unified champ when you really not the goods. Thats credit to his team.

world ranked wrote: ↑03 May 2021, 19:39

NoScoutingReports wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 04:51 Jack Catterall is a decent fighter but I don't think he's been matched too well in terms of preparation for a potential world title shot after the Taylor/Ramirez unification - yeah he's got the ranking with the WBO but the lack of a real testing step up fight (or two) could really cost him if he gets a shot at world level once the belts fragment/Taylor or Ramirez moves up to 147.

He's not really world level so for him to get to this spot to me is a sign of good management. When you get a possible shot
of a unified champ when you really not the goods. Thats credit to his team.

Yeah, I see your point mate. On the other hand being thrown to the wolves by chucking him in against a world class opponent without the correct matchmaking in terms of the level of previous opponents looks likely to end badly, and could have a very damaging effect on his future career/prospects. Would get a good payday but may cause him to be dismissed at that level, possibly permanently.

Got nothing against Caterall by the way, would like to see him be successful at the top table, just feel as though he could have been matched better to prepare for the end goal. Two ways of looking at it though definitely.

This is a really interesting topic, partly because it’s so subjective.

What does ‘well managed/promoted’ actually mean?

Many in the industry would describe Calzaghe as treading the perfect risk/reward path. Particularly given his hands.

He didn’t go the full blood and guts route, but arguably maximised his earnings over a long reign, claimed some big names by taking them on at the right time at the end of his career - and ended unbeaten.

If you view boxing as a business, that could be seen as text book.

You get a fighter who is lets say British commonwealth level at best , manage to get Eddie and matchroom , behind him , feed him stiffs , get him 25-0 -0 , accept or push for a fight against a proven world class operater ,, ala a lot of british fighters ,, watch him get pummelled , but get paid well , make an excuse , get him another big payday , then say sorry son go retire and enjoy your money , shout NEXT ... and start again , is that good management or is it not , guys earnt the money ,,,,, BUT managed differently , maybee taking harder learning fights along the way , he may off developed and become a true world class operater and along with that earnt more money ..

Mmmmm my answer i don't know

If a fighter maximisises his earnings, has operated at a level above(and at a level below to get there)and gets out in one piece then yes he has been superbly managed.

Rocky Fielding getting a million dollars against Canelo or Jason Welborn getting about 20k for his world title fight?

Who was better managed?

Coco wrote: ↑05 May 2021, 05:32 Rocky Fielding getting a million dollars against Canelo or Jason Welborn getting about 20k for his world title fight?

Who was better managed?

Well said both got beat down but one was managed better and got the most of his beatdown.

world ranked wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 11:20

Coco wrote: ↑05 May 2021, 05:32 Rocky Fielding getting a million dollars against Canelo or Jason Welborn getting about 20k for his world title fight?

Who was better managed?

Well said both got beat down but one was managed better and got the most of his beatdown.

The Welborn fight you referring to his fight with Hurd?

Big difference. One was in the main event against a P4P star and he had a belt (just regular belt that was)..

The other was the 3rd to last fight on the card on a big PPV event.

world ranked wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 11:20

Coco wrote: ↑05 May 2021, 05:32 Rocky Fielding getting a million dollars against Canelo or Jason Welborn getting about 20k for his world title fight?

Who was better managed?

Well said both got beat down but one was managed better and got the most of his beatdown.

Welborn earnt way more than that for that fight

jonp wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 11:36

world ranked wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 11:20

Coco wrote: ↑05 May 2021, 05:32 Rocky Fielding getting a million dollars against Canelo or Jason Welborn getting about 20k for his world title fight?

Who was better managed?

Well said both got beat down but one was managed better and got the most of his beatdown.

Welborn earnt way more than that for that fight

Yeh, his base purse, shown by CSAC was listed as $30k.. but he would have gotten more from UK TV Rights.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 12:53

jonp wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 11:36

world ranked wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 11:20

Well said both got beat down but one was managed better and got the most of his beatdown.

Welborn earnt way more than that for that fight

Yeh, his base purse, shown by CSAC was listed as $30k.. but he would have gotten more from UK TV Rights.

I don’t think so in this case as it was the undercard of Fury vs Wilder. He would have got more from US PPV income. The commission numbers are usually bullshit - just use them as a base for what the fighters get.

Bivol
Beterbiev
Lomassiah
Chad Dawson

Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑01 May 2021, 06:49

emallini wrote: ↑01 May 2021, 06:38 Becoming a millionaire is never a badly managed career. You are in the 0.01 percent that get rich out of Boxing.

Don't disagree but I do wonder what the percentage chance is of getting rich if you start off as a super heavyweight amateur? I'd say there is no other sport with a higher percentage chance of making a million plus if you take that division in isolation.

Agreed. Any am gym that has a heavyweight in, the lighter weight guys suffer neglect.

ironbeard wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 13:49 Lomassiah

Well, arguable. He was tracked almost to the undisputed championship.

banjo wrote: ↑01 May 2021, 14:50 The ones who never made decent money, as a professional athlete my main aim would be to make as much money as possible, honours are irrelevant.

Jake Paul's management doing a perfect job