BoxRec

Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:22 I'm surprised about the amount of people favouring Luis Ortiz over Andy Ruiz Jr.

The Cuban might enjoy some early success, but the Mexican-American will probably score a late stoppage, when 'King Kong' falls from the skyscraper due to exhaustion from being worn down from Ruiz Jr's biplane combos and high work-rate.

I hope the fight can get made so we can find out. It's a lose/lose situation for Ruiz. Not like he'll have a HOF name on his resume if he wins, and a loss will set his career back. That's why I doubt it gets made.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

We get it..

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:06

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

We get it..

Get what? I wasn't wrong about arreola.

Ruiz hasn't shown any vulnerability prior to the Arreola fight where he had lost a lot of weight. That included taking a monster combo from Joshua and showing no effects other than the immediate shock of being dropped. Ortiz very likely hits harder than Arreola and might well kave knocked out Ruiz that night so there is a question to be answered about Ruiz's chin that wasn't being asked before.

Ortiz is also vulnerable but not so much to a big punch. Ortiz's vulnerability is his gas tank. He took Wilder's shots (not that he was able to land many to be fair) up until the point he was running on empty about the halfway mark. This is nothing new. Five years ago Malik Scott tried to repeat the self-preservation tactic he had used against Wilder but the ref was having none of it, forcing him to continue against Ortiz after having been "knocked out" in the first. It was an awful spectacle: Scott didn't want to continue and Ortiz hadn't the energy to close the show, so just lumbered fruitlessly after him for a further eleven rounds while Scott got on his bike and pedalled frantically in the direction of sanctuary.

I see no way Ortiz is likely to beat Ruiz unless the poor punch resistance afflicting Ruiz early in the Arreola fight is now a permanent feature.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:10

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:06

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:25 Ruiz was supposed to stop arreola. The more likely ko would be Ortiz.

We get it..

Get what? I wasn't wrong about arreola.

You posted the same thing 3 times, probably a posting error.

But yeh, you're not wrong.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:16

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:10

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:06





We get it..

Get what? I wasn't wrong about arreola.

You posted the same thing 3 times, probably a posting error.

But yeh, you're not wrong.

Out of practice for when the board goes down. I thought you meant my obvious disdain for Ruiz

Bandog wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 06:48

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 04:22 I'm surprised about the amount of people favouring Luis Ortiz over Andy Ruiz Jr.

The Cuban might enjoy some early success, but the Mexican-American will probably score a late stoppage, when 'King Kong' falls from the skyscraper due to exhaustion from being worn down from Ruiz Jr's biplane combos and high work-rate.

I hope the fight can get made so we can find out. It's a lose/lose situation for Ruiz. Not like he'll have a HOF name on his resume if he wins, and a loss will set his career back. That's why I doubt it gets made.

I have to agree with you.

If Andy Ruiz Jr. beats Ortiz, everyone will say that the Mexican-American defeated an elderly unproven hype job with a terrible resume.

If Andy Ruiz Jr. loses, then he’s the modern-day equivalent of James ‘Buster’ Douglas , because he’s tasted defeat against a Lou Savarese type opponent.

Unfortunately though, many of today’s top heavyweights are risk-averse, which means this fight is sadly very decent (in the context of the calibre of heavyweight bouts most of us are accustomed to seeing).

Anyway, I like ESPN’s divisional rankings, because they don’t rate Luis Ortiz, but both The RING and TBRB bizarrely consider the Cuban as a top-seven heavyweight. And that just seems wrong to me.

candyslim wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:13Ortiz very likely hits harder than Arreola and might well kave knocked out Ruiz that night so there is a question to be answered about Ruiz's chin that wasn't being asked before.

Do you not think that Ruiz Jr's flash knockdown was mainly caused by Eddy Reynoso trying to change his fighting style, resulting in Andy being off-balance and perhaps subpar?

It initially felt (to me at least) that Ruiz Jr. was stylistically trying to be the heavyweight equivalent of Canelo. He was doing things that seemed unnatural to him. He wasn't being "himself", if you know what I mean.

As soon as Ruiz Jr. abandoned that gameplan from the fourth round onwards, moving forward as the aggressor, he instantly found his comfort zone and pretty much owned the winning momentum for the remainder of the bout.

Therefore, I don’t feel that Arreola’s punching power was the reason for Ruiz Jr’s troubles during the first few rounds of that fight, mainly because of what happened from round four onwards. Andy certainly wasn’t gunshy when it came to trading blows with Chris during the last eight or nine rounds!

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:38

candyslim wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 08:13Ortiz very likely hits harder than Arreola and might well kave knocked out Ruiz that night so there is a question to be answered about Ruiz's chin that wasn't being asked before.

Do you not think that Ruiz Jr's flash knockdown was mainly caused by Eddy Reynoso trying to change his fighting style, resulting in Andy being off-balance and perhaps subpar?

It initially felt (to me at least) that Ruiz Jr. was stylistically trying to be the heavyweight equivalent of Canelo. He was doing things that seemed unnatural to him. He wasn't being "himself", if you know what I mean.

As soon as Ruiz Jr. abandoned that gameplan from the fourth round onwards, moving forward as the aggressor, he instantly found his comfort zone and pretty much owned the winning momentum for the remainder of the bout.

Therefore, I don’t feel that Arreola’s punching power was the reason for Ruiz Jr’s troubles during the first few rounds of that fight, mainly because of what happened from round four onwards. Andy certainly wasn’t gunshy when it came to trading blows with Chris during the last eight or nine rounds!

It's possible and the fact that Ruiz was apparently ok from round 3 onwards suggests there may well be something in that, but I always lean toward a physical explanation for changes to punch resistance whether that be temporary such as being weight-drained or just plain exhausted, or permanent such as the ageing process or having taken too many trips to the well.

There again Klitschko's durability took a massive up-turn once under Emmanuel's Stewardship (sorry that was bad) so I guess you cannot ignore fighting style as a possibly very significant factor.

What weight class would Ruiz be at if he actually got in shape and even got down to 15% bodyfat? I'd guess he would weigh about 190.

Bandog wrote: ↑30 Jun 2021, 12:49 What weight class would Ruiz be at if he actually got in shape and even got down to 15% bodyfat? I'd guess he would weigh about 190.

Andy's family members are all really big. He was probably genetically destined to be overweight, though arguably not as big as he is right now.

Also he has generally demonstrated better stamina than many boxers who have impressive physiques.

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 02:05 Also he has generally demonstrated better stamina than many boxers who have impressive physiques.

what are these good stamina showings?

Joshua and Parker for starters.

cant say that i really thought either of those showed above average stamina tbh, in fact i thought he defo faded 2nd half vs parker

his output isnt that high either. id say average stamina at best

Can’t remember the Ruiz- Parker fight too well other than I had Ruiz winning yet he lost the later rounds.

From memory, AJ Ruiz 1 was also a low output sort of showing from Ruiz who seriously hurt AJ in round three and then essentially stalked him patiently with minimal output until he caught AJ again. Rounds went by with minimal exchanges, Ruiz throwing hard jabs to the body, too lazy to even target the head lol.

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 02:05 Also he has generally demonstrated better stamina than many boxers who have impressive physiques.

That might have to do more with his age than anything. I have a hard time thinking he is in shape, as much fat as he has. Discipline of an elite athlete is crucial if you want to be the best. He has good skills, but not disciplined enough to be great.

For a guy who looks so out of shape I think his staying power is remarkable.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑30 Jun 2021, 15:14

Bandog wrote: ↑30 Jun 2021, 12:49 What weight class would Ruiz be at if he actually got in shape and even got down to 15% bodyfat? I'd guess he would weigh about 190.

Andy's family members are all really big. He was probably genetically destined to be overweight, though arguably not as big as he is right now.

Do you think overweight people are genetically destined to be overweight?

'Genetically destined' means the result is inevitable. Substitute that phrase with 'genetically predisposed' and I would answer 'yes'.

Of course that applies to many but not necessarily the majority.

candyslim wrote: ↑02 Jul 2021, 02:37 'Genetically destined' means the result is inevitable. Substitute that phrase with 'genetically predisposed' and I would answer 'yes'.

Of course that applies to many but not necessarily the majority.

If you saw the size of Andy’s blood-relatives, you might understand the reason why he’s so big.

I’m not a doctor, but I do know people who exercise and also have a normal (or even a healthy) diet who are fit, yet very overweight.

I’m not convinced that Andy is excessively overweight because of a particularly unhealthy lifestyle.