BoxRec

gregregegg wrote: ↑31 Jul 2021, 18:29

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑31 Jul 2021, 15:18 Question.

IF Usyk beats Joshua.

Does he go 2nd or can he take 1??

Interesting question, I have fury as number one like most people, although I’m still not entirely sure why… I don’t/never rated wilder as great, and fury only realy has wilder, kilt and chis (with a retirement and bender in the middle). Think it’s just the eye test for me.

I didn’t move Ruiz to one when he beat AJ because he got beat up and dropped befor winging in a golden shot. Still give it credit, but even though it’s a ko win, it’s a close win.

For usyk to jump to one it would have to be a clear win with basicaly no damage taken. That can be over the distance with a 117+ card (and the lost rounds not being dominant), or if usyk stops him without ever being remotely in trouble or hurt at any point. Having an “easy fight” with AJ would be better than anything fury has ever done so I would have to consider usyk for number 1 spot.

To be fair Furys win against Wladamir in Germany is as good

Wales wrote: ↑31 Jul 2021, 19:05

gregregegg wrote: ↑31 Jul 2021, 18:29

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑31 Jul 2021, 15:18 Question.

IF Usyk beats Joshua.

Does he go 2nd or can he take 1??

Interesting question, I have fury as number one like most people, although I’m still not entirely sure why… I don’t/never rated wilder as great, and fury only realy has wilder, kilt and chis (with a retirement and bender in the middle). Think it’s just the eye test for me.

I didn’t move Ruiz to one when he beat AJ because he got beat up and dropped befor winging in a golden shot. Still give it credit, but even though it’s a ko win, it’s a close win.

For usyk to jump to one it would have to be a clear win with basicaly no damage taken. That can be over the distance with a 117+ card (and the lost rounds not being dominant), or if usyk stops him without ever being remotely in trouble or hurt at any point. Having an “easy fight” with AJ would be better than anything fury has ever done so I would have to consider usyk for number 1 spot.

To be fair Furys win against Wladamir in Germany is as good

I think id have to see usyk beating AJ better than that for me to have him skip fury. Its hard to describe befor it happens kinda just need to see it, it would have to be an epic dominant win, very very unlikely just saying for me there is a win possible that would move usyk directly above fury.

Will say about that win for Fury, its excellent, but its 6 years ago, He had failed drugs tests that year plus since then had retired, got to 400lb and being a alco/coke head... IT is a great great win, and a great comback story, but i dont know if its enough to keep him as "number 1" forever.

Usyk will have to be a twice improved version of the fighter that fought Chisora that’s for sure.

gregregegg wrote: ↑31 Jul 2021, 18:29

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑31 Jul 2021, 15:18 Question.

IF Usyk beats Joshua.

Does he go 2nd or can he take 1??

Interesting question, I have fury as number one like most people, although I’m still not entirely sure why… I don’t/never rated wilder as great, and fury only realy has wilder, kilt and chis (with a retirement and bender in the middle). Think it’s just the eye test for me.

I didn’t move Ruiz to one when he beat AJ because he got beat up and dropped befor winging in a golden shot. Still give it credit, but even though it’s a ko win, it’s a close win.

For usyk to jump to one it would have to be a clear win with basicaly no damage taken. That can be over the distance with a 117+ card (and the lost rounds not being dominant), or if usyk stops him without ever being remotely in trouble or hurt at any point. Having an “easy fight” with AJ would be better than anything fury has ever done so I would have to consider usyk for number 1 spot.

I'd still have Fury as number 1, despite Usyk's obvious pedigree, as he has Wlad and Wilder (all criticisms of Wilder are fair, but he was the Other Champion, unbeaten, very very dangerous and was built as the clear Big Name for AJ to fight for gazillions before Fury steamrolled him. Whatever you can say about him now, the first fight with Fury had one of the most extraordinary moments I've ever seen in boxing and the second fight was a thrilling one sided beatdown masterclass) and in comparing fights with their respective common opponent Chisora made Usyk work and took a couple of rounds off him, whereas Fury humiliated him and didn't even really have to get out of 2nd gear.

Fury is a very frustrating fighter though. Just when you think he's converted you and you're a fan he lets you down.

Joyce is my favourite active heavyweight and it's nice to see other people coming around to him as well.

Joyce is a big heavy, but average in any era. I consider him slightly above Ruiz, which is in the lower top 20.

Slow joe is king. The best plodder since George Forman.

gregregegg wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 16:06 Slow joe is king. The best plodder since George Forman.

Can't put them in the same breath.

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 16:43

gregregegg wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 16:06 Slow joe is king. The best plodder since George Forman.

Can't put them in the same breath.

Of course not. But Joyce is very entertaining and likeable, fights regularly, doesn't duck or swerve anybody, gets involved in tear ups and is a fighter.

Will he make top 5? I think so. Will he end up as a champion of some sort? I don't know. But it'll be fun to watch him try. I think he'd give AJ or Whyte in particular fits, and I'd love to see those fights.

Bandog wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 15:23 Joyce is a big heavy, but average in any era. I consider him slightly above Ruiz, which is in the lower top 20.

You mean Ortiz?

lol, in the same time period that joe has beaten dubois, takam, jennings, stiverne, wallish, and ustinov... lord ortiz has only beaten the mighty alex flores

some people said people give joyce attention out of desperation. more like because unlike so many others he's actually keeping his ass winning, knocking out hyped prospects and vets, and actually putting dat work in to make himself a genuine contender. this is all after a 14-2 wsb run and an elite amateur career where he really should've won an olymypic gold medal

he's obviously legit, even if slow as sh!t. i dont think anyone believes he'll be some hw king, but he can be a hard night's work for anyone

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 21:42 lol, in the same time period that joe has beaten dubois, takam, jennings, stiverne, wallish, and ustinov... lord ortiz has only beaten the mighty alex flores

some people said people give joyce attention out of desperation. more like because unlike so many others he's actually keeping his ass winning, knocking out hyped prospects and vets, and actually putting dat work in to make himself a genuine contender. this is all after a 14-2 wsb run and an elite amateur career where he really should've won an olymypic gold medal

he's obviously legit, even if slow as sh!t. i dont think anyone believes he'll be some hw king, but he can be a hard night's work for anyone

Desperation to have someone added to the top of the heap. Alongside AJ; Wilder; and Fury. He is legit, but he hasn't yet shown us he can compete with AJ and Fury. That is all.

i dont think that desperation really exists much though.....i dont believe he's widely considered some major threat to either guy, though he can make them work hard

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 21:55 i dont think that desperation really exists much though.....i dont believe he's widely considered some major threat to either guy, though he can make them work hard

Agreed

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 16:43

gregregegg wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 16:06 Slow joe is king. The best plodder since George Forman.

Can't put them in the same breath.

Didn’t say he was as good I said since. Who has been a better plodder since? Joyce is king of the modern plodders.

gregregegg wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 22:44

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 16:43

gregregegg wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 16:06 Slow joe is king. The best plodder since George Forman.

Can't put them in the same breath.

Didn’t say he was as good I said since. Who has been a better plodder since? Joyce is king of the modern plodders.

Ray Mercer for one.