BoxRec

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 00:36**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 23:11 tyson was faded by the time he fought lewis, but his run of kos leading up to that wasnt that much different than wilders tbh

frans botha
lou saverse
andrew golota
brian nielsen
cliff ettiene after fighting lewis

i mean , you wouldnt exactly say that a guy like dom brezeale or szpilka or gerald washington is just levels above this group would you

No, I think Wilders resume is crap. He ducked the big fights he could have had.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 04:40**

forcefraser wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 17:19 Who are Lewis's top five wins?

I'd place them that way:

1. Evander Holyfield - undisputed HW championship to determine the best fighter of the 90s.
2. Vitali Klitschko - a win over a one of the two dominant forces of the next generation.
3. Ray Mercer - I'd name Mercer the 5th boxer of the 90s, after Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson.
4. Donovan Ruddock - seen as a favorite and possible future of the division back then, but was demolished in 2.
5. Andrew Golota - was coming off the beatdowns over Bowe, who before those had been seen as #1 by many.

The wins over Frank Bruno, Tommy Morrison, David Tua and Hasim Rahman are close to the top 5.

The Mike Tyson win is hard to be not mentioned, but in the 2000s Tyson was way past it.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 05:01**

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 04:40
forcefraser wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 17:19 Who are Lewis's top five wins?
I'd place them that way:

1. Evander Holyfield - undisputed HW championship to determine the best fighter of the 90s.
2. Vitali Klitschko - a win over a one of the two dominant forces of the next generation.
3. Ray Mercer - I'd name Mercer the 5th boxer of the 90s, after Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson.
4. Donovan Ruddock - seen as a favorite and possible future of the division back then, but was demolished in 2.
5. Andrew Golota - was coming off the beatdowns over Bowe, who before those had been seen as #1 by many.

The wins over Frank Bruno, Tommy Morrison, David Tua and Hasim Rahman are close to the top 5.

The Mike Tyson win is hard to be not mentioned, but in the 2000s Tyson was way past it.

It was the manner of the victories over Ruddock and Golota that elevate them, he absolutely destroyed both of them, like they were nothing, and both men were considered serious dangermen.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 05:06**

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 05:01
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 04:40
forcefraser wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 17:19 Who are Lewis's top five wins?
I'd place them that way:

1. Evander Holyfield - undisputed HW championship to determine the best fighter of the 90s.
2. Vitali Klitschko - a win over a one of the two dominant forces of the next generation.
3. Ray Mercer - I'd name Mercer the 5th boxer of the 90s, after Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson.
4. Donovan Ruddock - seen as a favorite and possible future of the division back then, but was demolished in 2.
5. Andrew Golota - was coming off the beatdowns over Bowe, who before those had been seen as #1 by many.

The wins over Frank Bruno, Tommy Morrison, David Tua and Hasim Rahman are close to the top 5.

The Mike Tyson win is hard to be not mentioned, but in the 2000s Tyson was way past it.
It was the manner of the victories over Ruddock and Golota that elevate them, he absolutely destroyed both of them, like they were nothing, and both men were considered serious dangermen.

True.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 08:06**

The question is best BRITISH heavyweight.
Nowt to do with all time great lists.
British means where does Fury rate amongst fellow BRITISH heavyweights...

1 LEWIS
2 FURY
3 BUGNER
4 BRUNO
5 FARR
6 COOPER
7 MASON

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 08:42**

Lewis seems to get far more love and recognition now than when he was fighting.

I think in time Fury’s achievements will be likewise.

I think 10-20 years from now this may edge Fury’s way.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 13:44**

Kit wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 08:42 Lewis seems to get far more love and recognition now than when he was fighting.

My thought too. I remember lots of fans back then being frustrated by his often safety first approach; Stewart seemed to follow the same plan when he took over Wlad later on.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:30**

Kit wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 08:42 Lewis seems to get far more love and recognition now than when he was fighting.

People often start to value things when those are over.

So, now everyone take you f*cking cryings back and hail the Gypsy King!

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:32**

I’d favour a completely focused Fury over Lewis.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:34**

Head-to-head Fury can beat anybody in any era.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:35**

nobleart1978 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 08:06 The question is best BRITISH heavyweight.
Nowt to do with all time great lists.
British means where does Fury rate amongst fellow BRITISH heavyweights...

1 LEWIS
2 FURY
3 BUGNER
4 BRUNO
5 FARR
6 COOPER
7 MASON

Joshua has to be above Cooper and Mason??

Who did Mason ever beat that would rank over an albeit aging Klitchsko, Povetkin, Pulev, White and Zumbabo Love?

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:36**

nobleart1978 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 08:06 The question is best BRITISH heavyweight.
Nowt to do with all time great lists.
British means where does Fury rate amongst fellow BRITISH heavyweights...

1 LEWIS
2 FURY
3 BUGNER
4 BRUNO
5 FARR
6 COOPER
7 MASON

Pretty good list at the top, but too many from the ancient past. They couldn't live with the size of the modern Super-Heavies.
Cooper for example - Good as he was IN HIS day, he couldn't handle (say) Joe Joyce.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:37**

forcefraser wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 15:35
nobleart1978 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 08:06 The question is best BRITISH heavyweight.
Nowt to do with all time great lists.
British means where does Fury rate amongst fellow BRITISH heavyweights...

1 LEWIS
2 FURY
3 BUGNER
4 BRUNO
5 FARR
6 COOPER
7 MASON
Joshua has to be above Cooper and Mason??

Who did Mason ever beat that would rank over an albeit aging Klitchsko, Povetkin, Pulev, White and Zumbabo Love?

Exactly anyone modern that's good beats the old timers just on size.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:39**

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 15:34 Head-to-head Fury can beat anybody in any era.

I agree. I personally think he’s up there with the best of all-time and might well be number 1.
Q the hate towards me.
Remember the McDermott fight? Who would’ve thought he’d get this far.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:53**

No

Don't let the fights with Wilder cloud your judgement.

For what it's worth Fury will beat AJ if they ever meet. AJ has no heart or desire. ( That's contrary to how I saw Him prior to his Ruiz loss)

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 15:55**

If anyone thinks Joe Bugner could have beaten Or has achieved more than Anthony Joshua, then we are watching a different spot.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 16:13**

I don't know how you guys can even try to predict the future when it comes to Fury.
He wasn't in great shape against Wilder for the third fight, who can tell what he will look like after Christmas.
I'd bet ginormous

But seriously, the guy us unpredictable to the max. He doesn't live 'the boxing life' he doesn't stay in shape between fights, he doesn't hold back on the booze and kebabs.
At 33 he can't keep letting go, then trying to come back to fighting shape easily or fully.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 16:14**

Loynesy wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 15:55 If anyone thinks Joe Bugner could have beaten Or has achieved more than Anthony Joshua, then we are watching a different spot.

Achieved, no. Could have beaten?

Bugner went the distance twice with Muhammad Ali. Went the distance with Joe Frazier. Went the distance with Ron Lyle. He beat Chuck Wepner, Rudi Lubbers, Brian London, Henry Cooper, Manuel Ramos, Jack O'Halloran, Jurgen Blin, Tony Doyle, Jimmy Ellis, Mac Foster, Jose Luis Garcia.

He certainly would have went the distance without any question. Probably the most comparable fighter today to Joe Bugner is probably Hughie Fury although I would say Bugner let his hands go more often.

I'd say he's alive underdog against Joshua and would not be surprised with an upset decision.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 16:25**

Loynesy wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 15:55 If anyone thinks Joe Bugner could have beaten Or has achieved more than Anthony Joshua, then we are watching a different spot.

The only fights I saw of Bugner it appeared to me he didn't have the desire or fight in him. I've heard people say that Bugner was a decent boxer in his day. I can only off the top of my head remember the fight with Bruno and Bonecrusher. I'm sure I've seen other fights but he never seemed interested and possibly the only thing he was bothered about was the cash.

I have heard people say straight after the fight with Ali he went for a swim. I think he was one of those boxers that found hard to get motivated, these days with the amount of cash there is for fights he may have well preformed better.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 16:29**

Henry

I assume you've watched the two Ali fights and the Frazier fight?

I think it's fair to say that they weren't the most competitive.

Ironically, I respect old Joe, he had the balls to grab a payday against Frank, surely
Knowing he get stopped (which was literally stopped at the first sign of aggression from Frank)

He'd have fared less well than Charles Martín against AJ!

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 16:32**

Surely Joshua has to be #3 or #4 at absolute worst?

Yes he's flawed and doesn't have an elite skillset, but it's the best overall body of work since Lewis (even if I give him little head-to-head chance against Fury and think Bruno would have given him nightmares, probably even stopped him).

Unified champion, wins over Parker, Takam, Ruiz Jr, legit stoppages over Whyte, Povetkin, Pulev, Klitschko (albeit none at their peak). Fringe world-level blowouts of Breazeale, Johnson, Martin. I mean that's pretty good.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 16:45**

For now

1. Lewis
2. Fury
3. Joshua
4. Bruno
5. Cooper

The rest is dodgy. But no way Bugner is better than anybody of these, even Cooper, who even objectively defeated Bugner.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 16:49**

Loynesy wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 16:29 Henry

I assume you've watched the two Ali fights and the Frazier fight?

I think it's fair to say that they weren't the most competitive.

Ironically, I respect old Joe, he had the balls to grab a payday against Frank, surely
Knowing he get stopped (which was literally stopped at the first sign of aggression from Frank)

He'd have fared less well than Charles Martín against AJ!

Lmao @ Charles Martin

Joe Bugner was a lot better than Charles Martin. There's no need to get that extreme about it.

All I said was Bugner would be a live underdog, because he was tough enough and quick enough to get out of trouble a lot of the time. Never mind the fact that Joshua gases out, and has been gun shy ever since losing to Ruiz.

It would probably be an extremely boring and ugly fight with Joshua winning, because Bugner made everybody look like crap. The only time he had an exciting career was his comeback in the '90s down in Australia.

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 17:01**

No one mentioning herbie hide

Posted: **11 Oct 2021, 17:09**

Cooper was barely a cruiserweight. He weighed about 190lbs

Joshua, Whyte and Joyce would have smashed him to pieces.

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