BoxRec

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 19:31

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 19:05

seeKiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 12:58

His stock has fallen alright.
That fight should have lasted 4 rounds tops. Canelo would murder him, no point in that other than to take his "0".
Are we calling him a weight bully?

I disagree. Benavidez is not a great boxer, but I would take him over Plant, BJS, Yildrim, Smith, and the version of Kovalev who Canelo ktfo. He has a very good engine and he would not avoid an all out war. Disrespect him at your peril.

I would love to see it and it would sell huge.

He is so open, acres of body to aim at. He can't cope with guys bringing it to him because he is so used to using his size against lowly opponents. Plant and 2018 BJS would make him look like a seagull stuck in a vat of treacle. And Canelo would waste him.
It might sell a lot of tickets, but they would be off the back of Canelo, not Benewhatshisname.

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 19:47

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 19:31

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 19:05
I disagree. Benavidez is not a great boxer, but I would take him over Plant, BJS, Yildrim, Smith, and the version of Kovalev who Canelo ktfo. He has a very good engine and he would not avoid an all out war. Disrespect him at your peril.

I would love to see it and it would sell huge.

He is so open, acres of body to aim at. He can't cope with guys bringing it to him because he is so used to using his size against lowly opponents. Plant and 2018 BJS would make him look like a seagull stuck in a vat of treacle. And Canelo would waste him.
It might sell a lot of tickets, but they would be off the back of Canelo, not Benewhatshisname.

Benavidez definitely sucks at cutting off the ring, but he would not have to do that v Canelo. Canelo has fought no one at 168 willing to attack him like Benavidez would do. He has faced no one with the work rate combined with the length, combos, pop, and willingness to trade.

Maybe Canelo would stop him in one. Whatever happened it would be more exciting than the Plant, BJS, and Yildrim fights combined.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 19:52

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 19:47

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 19:31
He is so open, acres of body to aim at. He can't cope with guys bringing it to him because he is so used to using his size against lowly opponents. Plant and 2018 BJS would make him look like a seagull stuck in a vat of treacle. And Canelo would waste him.
It might sell a lot of tickets, but they would be off the back of Canelo, not Benewhatshisname.

Benavidez definitely sucks at cutting off the ring, but he would not have to do that v Canelo. Canelo has fought no one at 168 willing to attack him like Benavidez would do. He has faced no one with the work rate combined with the length, combos, pop, and willingness to trade.

Maybe Canelo would stop him in one. Whatever happened it would be more exciting than the Plant, BJS, and Yildrim fights combined.

Ok, its definitely not the fight I would pay for though...
Plant Bene would be OK, free to air of course.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:05 i wish these guys would have tougher tests before getting in there with canelo though

bjs had fought no one at smw
plants best opponent was only uzzy and all his defenses were really weak
benevidez has mostly been on a run of weak opponents, dirrell was decent but man thats the best in his whole career


benevidez is a talented guy but yet again these dudes seemingly dont take many risks while holding out for canelo. charlo coming up to 168 would be similar, fought no one there and really not much at 168 either

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:05 i wish these guys would have tougher tests before getting in there with canelo though

bjs had fought no one at smw
plants best opponent was only uzzy and all his defenses were really weak
benevidez has mostly been on a run of weak opponents


benevidez is a talented guy but yet again these dudes seemingly dont take many risks while holding out for canelo. charlo coming up to 168 would be similar, fought no one there and really not much at 168 either

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:12

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:05 i wish these guys would have tougher tests before getting in there with canelo though

bjs had fought no one at smw
plants best opponent was only uzzy and all his defenses were really weak
benevidez has mostly been on a run of weak opponents


benevidez is a talented guy but yet again these dudes seemingly dont take many risks while holding out for canelo. charlo coming up to 168 would be similar, fought no one there and really not much at 168 either

True, but it is the modern way. 20 easy fights, then a vacant belt or the weakest champion, then chug through 1/2 dozen flop overs.
Then by the time they face a real fighter they have a nest egg and can cash their belt out.
They have protected Bena, and the excuse he is young is old now.

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:38

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:12

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:05 i wish these guys would have tougher tests before getting in there with canelo though

bjs had fought no one at smw
plants best opponent was only uzzy and all his defenses were really weak
benevidez has mostly been on a run of weak opponents


benevidez is a talented guy but yet again these dudes seemingly dont take many risks while holding out for canelo. charlo coming up to 168 would be similar, fought no one there and really not much at 168 either

True, but it is the modern way. 20 easy fights, then a vacant belt or the weakest champion, then chug through 1/2 dozen flop overs.
Then by the time they face a real fighter they have a nest egg and can cash their belt out.
They have protected Bena, and the excuse he is young is old now.

Everybody has been protected. If Canelo is staying at 168, Benavidez should be next man up. If he is moving up, so be it, let’s see Benavidez v Charlo.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 21:11

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:38

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:12
True, but it is the modern way. 20 easy fights, then a vacant belt or the weakest champion, then chug through 1/2 dozen flop overs.
Then by the time they face a real fighter they have a nest egg and can cash their belt out.
They have protected Bena, and the excuse he is young is old now.

Everybody has been protected. If Canelo is staying at 168, Benavidez should be next man up. If he is moving up, so be it, let’s see Benavidez v Charlo.

Yeah that would be decent, except they won't risk Bena like that. How long ago was it when Bena said his goal was to unify all the belts?
How's he doing with that?

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 21:42

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 21:11

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 20:38
Everybody has been protected. If Canelo is staying at 168, Benavidez should be next man up. If he is moving up, so be it, let’s see Benavidez v Charlo.

Yeah that would be decent, except they won't risk Bena like that. How long ago was it when Bena said his goal was to unify all the belts?
How's he doing with that?

But Kiwi, he’s perfectly positioned himself one fight away from it.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 22:12

ironbeard wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 21:42

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Nov 2021, 21:11

Yeah that would be decent, except they won't risk Bena like that. How long ago was it when Bena said his goal was to unify all the belts?
How's he doing with that?

But Kiwi, he’s perfectly positioned himself one fight away from it.

Maaate! He doesn't even have the belt he had when he said his goals were to unify
Left it in a taxi, so the story goes..

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021, 03:18 Benavidez is far from being perfect, but it's interesting to see him against Canelo, cause he'll go for it. Who did that against Canelo for the last time? Everybody tried to box and concentrated on the defence, even Kovalev. Only Golovkin tried to fight aggressively in the recent times.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021, 05:19

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021, 03:18 Benavidez is far from being perfect, but it's interesting to see him against Canelo, cause he'll go for it. Who did that against Canelo for the last time? Everybody tried to box and concentrated on the defence, even Kovalev. Only Golovkin tried to fight aggressively in the recent times.

Canelo has fought a lot of fighters that were either bigger punchers than himself or held a significant physical size advantage.

This applies to all the opponents Canelo has fought over the last four years.

Golovkin wasn’t anywhere near as aggressive against Canelo in their rematch as he was during their first bout.

In fact, Team GGG mocked Canelo for fighting on the back foot during their first bout, but when the Mexican constantly came forward and became the aggressor in the rematch, it was Golovkin that went on the retreat.

I suspect Canelo’s fighting style and ability to adapt almost always compels his opponents to abandon their aggressive game plans.

It’s far easier saying something than actually doing it.

Canelo is very elusive and an excellent counter-puncher, which means he excels at making his opponents miss and then making them pay.

Benavidez can’t afford to be recklessly aggressive against Canelo, otherwise he’ll be fighting in a manner that is tailor made for the Mexican.

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021, 06:43Since then everyone, including Golovkin in the rematch, were trying to box Canelo. But it's pointless to box with Canelo, no one possesses the same speed and reflexes. The straightforward fight won't necessarily lead Benavidez to win, but it's the only position, where he has chances to win. He can box with Canelo, end up more or less safe, but lose wide. He can go for it with a risk to be battered more, but still with more opportunities for success.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021, 07:38

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021, 06:43Since then everyone, including Golovkin in the rematch, were trying to box Canelo. But it's pointless to box with Canelo, no one possesses the same speed and reflexes. The straightforward fight won't necessarily lead Benavidez to win, but it's the only position, where he has chances to win. He can box with Canelo, end up more or less safe, but lose wide. He can go for it with a risk to be battered more, but still with more opportunities for success.

I can see where you’re coming from and can understand your reasoning.

I agree that Benavidez needs to do “something” different against Canelo, but I haven’t seen anything about David that’s particularly “special”.

Don’t get me wrong, I know he’s a very decent fighter, but he doesn’t really excel at anything.

But you’re right, if Benavidez tries to box Canelo, he’ll lose badly (either wide on the scorecards or by late stoppage).

However, I also feel if Benavidez adopts a James Kirkland type game-plan, he’ll get destroyed very quickly, because Canelo is sublimely comfortable dealing with recklessly aggressive opposition.

I honestly don’t know how Benavidez beats Canelo, without scoring a lottery-winning style once-in-lifetime lucky one-punch KO.

I think a busy durable heavy-handed elusive boxer-puncher beats Canelo, but I can’t think of any elite-level operators at 168lbs and 175lbs that fits that description.