BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 13:08

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 13:04

bobcatbox wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 10:59

Jimmy McDonnell, man, I don’t think that’s super fair. Canelo beat every belt holder at 168. Froch had an awesome and fun career but let’s be honest did he beat anybody that you think Canelo couldn’t have handled just as easily?

I know we’re comparing apples to oranges here, but I’m not sure Froch could’ve beaten Callum Smith or Billy Joe. Smith would have been a formidable opponent for Froch, and BJS’s style is a really tough matchup for the Cobra.

Pascal
Taylor
Johnson
Bute
Groves

Taylor would have been a tricky one, at either 160 or 168, people write Taylor off now, but he was a great boxer, and had some very good physical gifts, he was somewhat on the slide, by the time he got to Froch, but he still had great boxing skills.

Johnson, - too one dimensional, but he'd have given Canelo 12 hard paced rounds for certain, as he was rock hard.

Groves, yeah, never quite sure how to rate groves, had a serious dig, could box, but not sure how great he really was, though he certainly handled Eubank Jr with ease.

Bute, looked a million dollars until Froch spiked his career. Good call.

Pascal, good fighter, and went on to do good things at 175 too, a very aggressive fighter, and Froch went to war with him and won.

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 13:04

bobcatbox wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 10:59

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 04:14 Let's calm down here.

At 168, Canelo has done nowhere near enough to suggest he would have beaten Froch with ease.

Jimmy McDonnell, man, I don’t think that’s super fair. Canelo beat every belt holder at 168. Froch had an awesome and fun career but let’s be honest did he beat anybody that you think Canelo couldn’t have handled just as easily?

I know we’re comparing apples to oranges here, but I’m not sure Froch could’ve beaten Callum Smith or Billy Joe. Smith would have been a formidable opponent for Froch, and BJS’s style is a really tough matchup for the Cobra.

Pascal
Taylor
Johnson
Bute
Groves

bobcatbox wrote: ↑19 Nov 2021, 01:35

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 13:04

bobcatbox wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 10:59

Jimmy McDonnell, man, I don’t think that’s super fair. Canelo beat every belt holder at 168. Froch had an awesome and fun career but let’s be honest did he beat anybody that you think Canelo couldn’t have handled just as easily?

I know we’re comparing apples to oranges here, but I’m not sure Froch could’ve beaten Callum Smith or Billy Joe. Smith would have been a formidable opponent for Froch, and BJS’s style is a really tough matchup for the Cobra.

Pascal
Taylor
Johnson
Bute
Groves

Pascal - easy Canelo victory
Taylor - a tough one but Canelo would’ve smoked him
Johnson - bro come on
Bute - again…
Groves - would’ve given Canelo hell and gotten himself knocked out by the fifth round

bobcatbox wrote: ↑19 Nov 2021, 01:35

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 13:04

bobcatbox wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 10:59

Jimmy McDonnell, man, I don’t think that’s super fair. Canelo beat every belt holder at 168. Froch had an awesome and fun career but let’s be honest did he beat anybody that you think Canelo couldn’t have handled just as easily?

I know we’re comparing apples to oranges here, but I’m not sure Froch could’ve beaten Callum Smith or Billy Joe. Smith would have been a formidable opponent for Froch, and BJS’s style is a really tough matchup for the Cobra.

Pascal
Taylor
Johnson
Bute
Groves

Pascal - easy Canelo victory
Taylor - a tough one but Canelo would’ve smoked him
Johnson - bro come on
Bute - again…
Groves - would’ve given Canelo hell and gotten himself knocked out by the fifth round

bobcatbox wrote: ↑19 Nov 2021, 12:00 I respect Johnson but not enough to believe that in 2011 - at the time he fought and lost to Froch - that he would have posed much of a fight for Canelo. He lost three in a row after losing a close decision to Froch. Canelo would have smoked him.

I simply agree to disagree on Bute being a hard fight for Canelo.

While I do agree that the body of work is limited at 168, is there a doubt that if he stuck around and defended his undisputed title he would likely lose to anyone else? Benavidez gives him a good fight but Canelo enters that at least a 3:1 favorite.

I do not believe that, with the exception of Andre Ward, the 168 pound division was immensely better in 2009-13 than it is today. But I’m fine to disagree on that as well.

Let me put it this way perhaps. If Canelo had entered the Super Six tourney, is there a doubt he would have beaten everyone (or at the very least been an odds on favorite to beat everyone) except Ward?

And tbh, in my opinion, I think Canelo beats Ward in what would be a very good fight.

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 06:33

brilo33 wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 19:44

Steven Metro wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 19:21 Canelo is a legitimate elite fighter, however, he has obviously benefitted from some dodgy decisions and cherry picking of opponents. His supposed win and draw over GGG, according to a majority of fans, polls, and non official judges should have been losses. Its also important to point out that he fought Golovkin when Golovkin was 37 years old, and had started to look vulnerable for the first time in his career in the Kell Brook fight. Canelo's team purposely timed the fights with GGG to once GGG reached late 30's and was starting to decline just a bit. Even fighting an older GGG, a majority of people thought Canelo lost both fights.

The same can be said of his fight VS Kovalev, fighting Kovalev when the Russian was late 30's and at least 3, possibly 5 years removed from his prime. I do think a Kovalev of 2012-15 would have KO'd Canelo personally but that's neither here nor there. In fairness to Canelo, its not a fair matchup to begin with if both were in their prime because Sergey is a much bigger man. I do feel today, Bivol or Beterbiev would defeat Canelo at 175.

Froch in his prime VS Canelo in his prime at 168, I gotta go with Froch personally, mainly on account of his size advantage he would carry into the fight. Wouldnt be a fair fight because of that. Hypothetically if it happened I could actually see Froch stopping Canelo late. Canelo hits harder but Froch was one of the roughest pressure fighters there was and I could see that pressure getting to the smaller man in late rounds. Arthur Abraham would be a winnable fight for Canelo I think. Mikkel Kessler would be a 50/50, I personally might lean a touch towards Canelo. Andre Ward I think would win a comfortable decision over Canelo at 168.

Once again tho, none of those are "fair fights" because Canelo is not a natural 168er.

yea but you have to give credit to canelo in the 2nd fight for bringing it to triple g, un thinkable shows how versatile of a boxer saul is , i dont think height would be a big thing as usaly it comes with naturally being heavier which i dont think carl would have over saul, also i doubt carl would be fighting at range like plant , i think carl would have to go center of the ring and hold it ,he is very capable froch of winning, but at this time i go saul i think wins, 2 years down the line we might see what the weakness of saul is and then in a furture history fight froch will know his weakness

A 37 y/o GGG vs a 27-28 y/o Canelo and G still gave Canelo fists.

G was old and past of his prime.

Prime Cobra would be a big problem for the smaller Canelo @168. S6 Ward, Dirrell and Kessler too.

Canelo would beat Bika, Abraham, Taylor, Green and Bute.

brilo33 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2021, 20:03

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 06:33

brilo33 wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 19:44
yea but you have to give credit to canelo in the 2nd fight for bringing it to triple g, un thinkable shows how versatile of a boxer saul is , i dont think height would be a big thing as usaly it comes with naturally being heavier which i dont think carl would have over saul, also i doubt carl would be fighting at range like plant , i think carl would have to go center of the ring and hold it ,he is very capable froch of winning, but at this time i go saul i think wins, 2 years down the line we might see what the weakness of saul is and then in a furture history fight froch will know his weakness

A 37 y/o GGG vs a 27-28 y/o Canelo and G still gave Canelo fists.

G was old and past of his prime.

Prime Cobra would be a big problem for the smaller Canelo @168. S6 Ward, Dirrell and Kessler too.

Canelo would beat Bika, Abraham, Taylor, Green and Bute.

what was tripple gs prime age though, thats a tough call as well he bashed macklin and Geale but they never fought back to give us enuff info though mack did well against martinze geale beat strum

brilo33 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2021, 20:03

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 06:33

brilo33 wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 19:44
yea but you have to give credit to canelo in the 2nd fight for bringing it to triple g, un thinkable shows how versatile of a boxer saul is , i dont think height would be a big thing as usaly it comes with naturally being heavier which i dont think carl would have over saul, also i doubt carl would be fighting at range like plant , i think carl would have to go center of the ring and hold it ,he is very capable froch of winning, but at this time i go saul i think wins, 2 years down the line we might see what the weakness of saul is and then in a furture history fight froch will know his weakness

A 37 y/o GGG vs a 27-28 y/o Canelo and G still gave Canelo fists.

G was old and past of his prime.

Prime Cobra would be a big problem for the smaller Canelo @168. S6 Ward, Dirrell and Kessler too.

Canelo would beat Bika, Abraham, Taylor, Green and Bute.

what was tripple gs prime age though, thats a tough call as well he bashed macklin and Geale but they never fought back to give us enuff info though mack did well against martinze geale beat strum

apollo creed wrote: ↑20 Nov 2021, 03:09

brilo33 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2021, 20:03

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 06:33

A 37 y/o GGG vs a 27-28 y/o Canelo and G still gave Canelo fists.

G was old and past of his prime.

Prime Cobra would be a big problem for the smaller Canelo @168. S6 Ward, Dirrell and Kessler too.

Canelo would beat Bika, Abraham, Taylor, Green and Bute.

what was tripple gs prime age though, thats a tough call as well he bashed macklin and Geale but they never fought back to give us enuff info though mack did well against martinze geale beat strum

Probably 2012-2015. But the top fighters like Martinez , JCCJr and Cotto were avoiding him.

brilo33 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2021, 19:33

apollo creed wrote: ↑20 Nov 2021, 03:09

brilo33 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2021, 20:03
what was tripple gs prime age though, thats a tough call as well he bashed macklin and Geale but they never fought back to give us enuff info though mack did well against martinze geale beat strum

Probably 2012-2015. But the top fighters like Martinez , JCCJr and Cotto were avoiding him.

yea also Felix Sturm , so the ko of Gabriel Rosado era , i think his first fight with saul was the best ggg ive seen