BoxRec

Frostieballs wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 12:48

mickey1975 wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 12:31 Wilder is fringe European level? Wow.
Parker and Tyson are genuinely close.

Yeah I think so. I genuinely don’t rate him as world class.

Well, he knocked down Tyson four times so Tyson can't be much above it. Or Wlad, as Tyson boxed his head off.

Wilder can be a sh!thouse boxer, but this sport isn't only about sublime tapping each other. Wilder is a helluva puncher, he can use it along with his anthropometrics. He delivers well and can be dangerous for anybody. No way Wilder isn't World class.

He’s a world class puncher… that is all.

That has been enough to win a world title in the current, fragmented, climate, but not generally in the past… (or hopefully the future).

What is his best win? Ortiz?

As a gauge, do you think he would have beaten someone like Danny Williams?

That he put Tyson down doesn’t make him world class. That could say more about Tyson. I think those wins are overrated.

Also… two very different Tyson’s that fought Wlad and Wilder….

Frostieballs wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 15:23 He’s a world class puncher… that is all.

That has been enough to win a world title in the current, fragmented, climate, but not generally in the past… (or hopefully the future).

What is his best win? Ortiz?

As a gauge, do you think he would have beaten someone like Danny Williams?

That he put Tyson down doesn’t make him world class. That could say more about Tyson. I think those wins are overrated.

Yep - I think Wilder beats a peak Danny Williams. Probably faster than Samil Sam did too.

Wilder is a world class fighter. His boxing skills may be limited but his power makes him a world class fighter.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 15:23 As a gauge, do you think he would have beaten someone like Danny Williams?

Wilder would destroy Danny Williams.

maverick23 wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 15:33

Frostieballs wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 15:23 He’s a world class puncher… that is all.

That has been enough to win a world title in the current, fragmented, climate, but not generally in the past… (or hopefully the future).

What is his best win? Ortiz?

As a gauge, do you think he would have beaten someone like Danny Williams?

That he put Tyson down doesn’t make him world class. That could say more about Tyson. I think those wins are overrated.

Yep - I think Wilder beats a peak Danny Williams. Probably faster than Samil Sam did too.

Wilder is a world class fighter. His boxing skills may be limited but his power makes him a world class fighter.

Agreed.

If I had to bet my life on the winner between Wilder and Joshua, it would be Wilder. And presumably most would consider Joshua world class despite his obvious shortcomings.

Not forgetting of course that Wilder is an olympic medalist.

wilder is world class for sure. though josh would ko the dosser, at 36 with 2 straight bad ko losses and no wins in 2 years he's on the way down i think

hope fury can finally put together a straight run of top opponents

I said I was in a big minority!

I just don’t see it… and believe that Tyson pre layoff would have had 3 easier nights against Wilder. Or at least as easy as fight 2.

Let’s see where he goes from here.

just hope fury doesnt retire now , like some of his totally sheepish, confidence lacking fans have called for.

whyte, then the usyk-aj winner would be the tops for the gypsy kind, then he'd be the real dominating ruler of the division if he got through that

Frostieballs wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 11:47 I’m obviously in a large minority here - and I am no stranger to being proved wrong, but I think:

- Fury vs Whyte is a close fight
- Fury’s wins over Wilder are overrated
- Wilder is fringe Euro level
- Fury has deteriorated since the first Wilder fight
- Fury is at the tipping point of have zero motivation
- Parker isn’t ‘that bad’
- Fury vs Joshua remains a 50-50

Count me in the minority too; I agree with a lot of your points.

Of course the Tyson Fury myths get re-told, such as him boxing Wlads head off - and those that fell asleep watching Wlad and Fury at their most boring during that fight, or those having not bothered to watch it since, could possibly believe it wasnt the ugly close fight it actually was; but its on Youtube if anyone wants to waste 50 minutes of their life!

I will disagree that Wilder is not world class - he most certainly is world class.
The issue is that heavyweight boxers today are probably as bad as they have ever been in the history of the sport. That Tyson Fury can be the legitimate number one heavyweight says it all.

Wilder is a world class puncher, and he has a lot of heart, but that's it for me. It's been enough to get him through everyone he's fought up until Fury, and he was 1 second away from doing the job there too.

Generally he gets his ears boxed off, people like to bring up his Ortiz wins, but he barely won a round in either fight (outside of the 10/8 rounds) and the bell saved him in the first fight from being stopped.

World class boxer he is not.

We need to see Fury in with someone else in the top 5.

People really can't handle the fact Tyson is generally accepted as no 1! He always has been.....

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 18:45 Wilder is a world class puncher, and he has a lot of heart, but that's it for me. It's been enough to get him through everyone he's fought up until Fury, and he was 1 second away from doing the job there too.

Generally he gets his ears boxed off, people like to bring up his Ortiz wins, but he barely won a round in either fight (outside of the 10/8 rounds) and the bell saved him in the first fight from being stopped.

World class boxer he is not.

We need to see Fury in with someone else in the top 5.

Like Wlad in his adopted home country after ten years unbeaten?

mickey1975 wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 19:09 People really can't handle the fact Tyson is generally accepted as no 1! He always has been.....

Always? No, not until after Joshua lost to Ruiz.

I picked Fury to beat Wlad at the time, but he bailed out of the rematch because he went down a path he shouldn't have, which included amongst many other things taking drugs to cheat.

Now that he is free of wilder, Fury needs to fight people in the current top 5. No idea why anyone wouldn't want that to happen, and that is what champs do.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 19:11

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 18:45 Wilder is a world class puncher, and he has a lot of heart, but that's it for me. It's been enough to get him through everyone he's fought up until Fury, and he was 1 second away from doing the job there too.

Generally he gets his ears boxed off, people like to bring up his Ortiz wins, but he barely won a round in either fight (outside of the 10/8 rounds) and the bell saved him in the first fight from being stopped.

World class boxer he is not.

We need to see Fury in with someone else in the top 5.

Like Wlad in his adopted home country after ten years unbeaten?

How many years ago is that now though?

And you cannot ignore the fact, that Wlad was reaching the end of a very long career and was knocking on.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 05:30

mickey1975 wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 19:11

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 18:45 Wilder is a world class puncher, and he has a lot of heart, but that's it for me. It's been enough to get him through everyone he's fought up until Fury, and he was 1 second away from doing the job there too.

Generally he gets his ears boxed off, people like to bring up his Ortiz wins, but he barely won a round in either fight (outside of the 10/8 rounds) and the bell saved him in the first fight from being stopped.

World class boxer he is not.

We need to see Fury in with someone else in the top 5.

Like Wlad in his adopted home country after ten years unbeaten?

How many years ago is that now though?

And you cannot ignore the fact, that Wlad was reaching the end of a very long career and was knocking on.

I thinks it’s easy to say that now but he’d barely had a close fight in 10 years before he fought Fury. Whilst Fury didn’t school him like several people now seem to say he did beat which no one, other than Samuel Peter 10 years previously, had come close to doing.

It was 6 years ago. A good 18 month's before he nearly beat AJ.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 06:03 It was 6 years ago. A good 18 month's before he nearly beat AJ.

So AJ aside, are we expected to Laud fury for that victory forever?

Fury is talented, but currently his resume in terms of being a dominant heavyweight champ, is piss weak. If he wants to cement it, we need to see him fight some other top fighters. Admittedly it's a relatively weak era, but Whyte, Joyce, winner of AJ v Usyk, which I would expect to be Usyk, would round things off nicely.

Whilst the trilogy with Wilder was fun, it's not really done much to enhance his standing as heavyweight champ.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 04:45

mickey1975 wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 19:09 People really can't handle the fact Tyson is generally accepted as no 1! He always has been.....

Always? No, not until after Joshua lost to Ruiz.

Yes, to me. I'm gutted it never happened. I'd have made a fortune off my casual friends.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 06:11

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 06:03 It was 6 years ago. A good 18 month's before he nearly beat AJ.

So AJ aside, are we expected to Laud fury for that victory forever?

Fury is talented, but currently his resume in terms of being a dominant heavyweight champ, is piss weak. If he wants to cement it, we need to see him fight some other top fighters. Admittedly it's a relatively weak era, but Whyte, Joyce, winner of AJ v Usyk, which I would expect to be Usyk, would round things off nicely.

Whilst the trilogy with Wilder was fun, it's not really done much to enhance his standing as heavyweight champ.

Aj's record is terrible if you dissect it.

Going to America three times and beating the heavyweight champion isn't impressive?

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 06:12

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 06:11

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 06:03 It was 6 years ago. A good 18 month's before he nearly beat AJ.

So AJ aside, are we expected to Laud fury for that victory forever?

Fury is talented, but currently his resume in terms of being a dominant heavyweight champ, is piss weak. If he wants to cement it, we need to see him fight some other top fighters. Admittedly it's a relatively weak era, but Whyte, Joyce, winner of AJ v Usyk, which I would expect to be Usyk, would round things off nicely.

Whilst the trilogy with Wilder was fun, it's not really done much to enhance his standing as heavyweight champ.

Aj's record is terrible if you dissect it.

We're not discussing AJ, why do you keep bringing him up. AJ is an also ran as a heavyweight champ currently.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 06:14 Going to America three times and beating the heavyweight champion isn't impressive?

No, not when it's the same fighter each time, and that fighter is Wilder.

Wilder's resume is terrible.

And to be correct, he beat him twice. One was a draw.

He went life or death with him in two of three fights also.

Let's not overegg the pudding here, and give Fury credit that is undeserved.