BoxRec

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 13:58

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 10:59 If he beat Usyk, Joshua and Joyce, I would put him as GOAT.

Concur. Although Joshua isn't necessary.

And Joyce is?

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:01

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 13:58

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 10:59 If he beat Usyk, Joshua and Joyce, I would put him as GOAT.

Concur. Although Joshua isn't necessary.

And Joyce is?

At least he'll be a tougher challenge than Joshua. Possibly the hardest after Usyk right now.

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:05

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:01

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 13:58

Concur. Although Joshua isn't necessary.

And Joyce is?

At least he'll be a tougher challenge than Joshua. Possibly the hardest after Usyk right now.

Fury would hammer Joyce and it does little to enhance his legacy. I think Joyce is tailor made for Tyson to outbox and beat up.

Whilst AJ seems to have deteriorated and a lot obviously depends on what happens in the Usyk fight he’s generally considered to be one of the top guys in the last 6-8 years. Fury more than likely beats him still but unless he’s got worse since the last Usyk fight I think it’d still be more meaningful than Joyce.

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:01

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 13:58

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 10:59 If he beat Usyk, Joshua and Joyce, I would put him as GOAT.

Concur. Although Joshua isn't necessary.

And Joyce is?

Fury may well hammer Joyce. So do it.

For me they are all required to give his record enough depth. I've heard enough people claim Joyce is a hard fight for him for it to be important to me when deciding his overall place in history. There's not really anybody Ali didn't fight from his era, for example. I'll always be disappointed he didn't fight Price too, even though Dave didn't push on to much, at the time it was a big fight that didn't happen. It was a strategic duck for me and a stain on his legacy. He is one of the best ever, though, no doubt.

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:26

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:01

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 13:58

Concur. Although Joshua isn't necessary.

And Joyce is?

Fury may well hammer Joyce. So do it.

For me they are all required to give his record enough depth. I've heard enough people claim Joyce is a hard fight for him for it to be important to me when deciding his overall place in history. There's not really anybody Ali didn't fight from his era, for example. I'll always be disappointed he didn't fight Price too, even though Dave didn't push on to much, at the time it was a big fight that didn't happen. It was a strategic duck for me and a stain on his legacy. He is one of the best ever, though, no doubt.

I’m not saying it’s a fight that I wouldn’t want to see. I just don’t agree with Joyce doing more for Tyson’s record than AJ.

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:25

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:05

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:01

And Joyce is?

At least he'll be a tougher challenge than Joshua. Possibly the hardest after Usyk right now.

Fury would hammer Joyce and it does little to enhance his legacy. I think Joyce is tailor made for Tyson to outbox and beat up.

Whilst AJ seems to have deteriorated and a lot obviously depends on what happens in the Usyk fight he’s generally considered to be one of the top guys in the last 6-8 years. Fury more than likely beats him still but unless he’s got worse since the last Usyk fight I think it’d still be more meaningful than Joyce.

I guess, Fury can both outbox and overwhelm Joshua, while Joyce can be outboxed, but he's much harder to be broken and he'll never stop coming forward.

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:31

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:25

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:05

At least he'll be a tougher challenge than Joshua. Possibly the hardest after Usyk right now.

Fury would hammer Joyce and it does little to enhance his legacy. I think Joyce is tailor made for Tyson to outbox and beat up.

Whilst AJ seems to have deteriorated and a lot obviously depends on what happens in the Usyk fight he’s generally considered to be one of the top guys in the last 6-8 years. Fury more than likely beats him still but unless he’s got worse since the last Usyk fight I think it’d still be more meaningful than Joyce.

I guess, Fury can both outbox and overwhelm Joshua, while Joyce can be outboxed, but he's much harder to be broken and he'll never stop coming forward.

An old Takam was hammering him with power shots. He did well to take them but Fury will be beating him up from range and then increasing the power as it goes on. Will be a real beatdown I think as Joyce won’t be able to get close. He did well against Dubois because he took his jab away and landed his own. He won’t be able to do that against Tyson.

Obviously depends which AJ turns up. If it’s the post Ruiz, not as quick to pull the trigger AJ then he’ll likely be beat like Whyte was. If AJ’s able to get some of that fire/belief back then, whilst Tyson will likely win, it’s a much tougher fight.

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:46

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:31

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:25

Fury would hammer Joyce and it does little to enhance his legacy. I think Joyce is tailor made for Tyson to outbox and beat up.

Whilst AJ seems to have deteriorated and a lot obviously depends on what happens in the Usyk fight he’s generally considered to be one of the top guys in the last 6-8 years. Fury more than likely beats him still but unless he’s got worse since the last Usyk fight I think it’d still be more meaningful than Joyce.

I guess, Fury can both outbox and overwhelm Joshua, while Joyce can be outboxed, but he's much harder to be broken and he'll never stop coming forward.

An old Takam was hammering him with power shots. He did well to take them but Fury will be beating him up from range and then increasing the power as it goes on. Will be a real beatdown I think as Joyce won’t be able to get close. He did well against Dubois because he took his jab away and landed his own. He won’t be able to do that against Tyson.

Obviously depends which AJ turns up. If it’s the post Ruiz, not as quick to pull the trigger AJ then he’ll likely be beat like Whyte was. If AJ’s able to get some of that fire/belief back then, whilst Tyson will likely win, it’s a much tougher fight.

I think, Joyce didn't take Takam seriously and just relied to eating 10 shots to KO the old man with 1 own punch. He definitely can do better. Anyway, Fury still wins him, cause Fury wins everyone.

AJ? He has never been something as big as he had been presented to casuals.

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:49

maverick23 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:46

DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 14:31

I guess, Fury can both outbox and overwhelm Joshua, while Joyce can be outboxed, but he's much harder to be broken and he'll never stop coming forward.

An old Takam was hammering him with power shots. He did well to take them but Fury will be beating him up from range and then increasing the power as it goes on. Will be a real beatdown I think as Joyce won’t be able to get close. He did well against Dubois because he took his jab away and landed his own. He won’t be able to do that against Tyson.

Obviously depends which AJ turns up. If it’s the post Ruiz, not as quick to pull the trigger AJ then he’ll likely be beat like Whyte was. If AJ’s able to get some of that fire/belief back then, whilst Tyson will likely win, it’s a much tougher fight.

I think, Joyce didn't take Takam seriously and just relied to eating 10 shots to KO the old man with 1 own punch. He definitely can do better. Anyway, Fury still wins him, cause Fury wins everyone.

AJ? He has never been something as big as he had been presented to casuals.

I think the AJ who fought Martin/Klitschko/Povetkin would be a tough fight for anyone although I think Tyson would have still handled him reasonably comfortably. He was confident, at the right weight and wasn’t scared about throwing big shots.

This absurd overpraising of Fury has finally reached pre-Ruiz Joshua levels. And all for a win over Dillian Whyte! Remember how prior to Andy Ruiz, fans had Joshua being too big and strong for every great in history and a thread about him vs Lennox ran for an obscene number of pages?

Then Andy Ruiz provided us a sober assessment of him and suddenly no sane person believes he beats any greats.

Maybe hold off on ranking a guy no 1 of all-time for beating Wlad, Wilder and Whyte.

Start with i don't like comparing past and present boxers especielly heavyweights ,, they just keep getting bigger , so that brings us to now ,,, and Tyson Fury is definetly in the top 3 i for one will not get carried away with this win , i said weeks ago Whyte is just not world level he's just the same has Chisora , talks a better fight than he actually does ,

Tyson could cement his legacy with the obvious fight against the Usky AJ winner ,,, which i'll go on record now has saying he beats Usky comfotably , simply because of his size and he can box , it will be just too big a job for Usky ,

AJ though well that depends with the present trainers AJ has Fury wins ,,, if AJ changes trainers and goes with someon who can get in his head and get his confidence back , its a 50-50 fight and with a different trainer i'd actually edge towards AJ by KO , Tyson has not fought anyone who can box , hit hard and has the size that AJ has .

ya people have short memories. someone just said no one can even touch fury, never mind that of his last 2 opponents before whyte one of them shredded his face apart and buzzed him, the other had him down twice and hurt him about 4 times.

he still has room to make significant gains to his legacy and resume. he will be the favourite, but you gotta fight the fights. it's a bit lol at people downplaying someone like joshua yet getting so giddy over fury beating a guy ktfo by josh and a josh victim

usyk-aj 2 winner for the undisputed....gotta happen. if he wins that, then retire, fair enough. will leave no argument over him being the best of his generation. although if he beats usyk to do that, an all uk defense vs josh could still be huge

whyte is one of the top 3 guys fury has beaten. if he's not then otto wallin is. it added some depth to his record but there's room for more.

I don't think he's out to please us. He will tell you himself the McDermott fight could have gone against him. Other than that theres really nothing to say. Even Whyte was in his opponents back yard.

ya fighting whyte in the uk is major road warrior stuff, gotta give him extra props for that daring move

mickey1975 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 21:57 I don't think he's out to please us. He will tell you himself the McDermott fight could have gone against him. Other than that theres really nothing to say. Even Whyte was in his opponents back yard.

Try has you may Mickey , we all know and acknoledge Tyson is top 3 in one of the most dismal periods of heavyweight boxing ,, discusions about Ali . Foreman , Lewis, Bowe and all past boxers are irrelevent because theres no way of proving it .

However in this poor time of heavyweight boxing there is a way of proving it and thats fight the other two in the top 3 ,, at the moment you would have to say Usky is the best simply because he holds more belts ,, Tyson wants to really cement himself has the best he has to fight the other two and win .

Not saying he has'nt done well course he has , but he did beat a past it old man , he then beat Wilder who just was,nt very good Whyte well he's not worth mentioning because he never was and never will be a real top contender , theres a reason he was refusing fights and waiting for his payday now he can go take his rightful place in front of Chisora , a yard stick for up and comers ,,, Tyson and his father sprout long and hard about Tyson being the best out there , yet he chooses to go do exhibitions with mma fighters rather than issue the challenge to see who is the best ,,

So that basicly has far has i'm concerned just says to me AJ and Usyk at the moment are 1 and 2 Usyk wins he's num 1 end off more belts and willing to put them on the line against the best in AJ , he could of used the war has an excuse but did'nt

Billy Tully wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 17:59 This absurd overpraising of Fury has finally reached pre-Ruiz Joshua levels. And all for a win over Dillian Whyte! Remember how prior to Andy Ruiz, fans had Joshua being too big and strong for every great in history and a thread about him vs Lennox ran for an obscene number of pages?

Then Andy Ruiz provided us a sober assessment of him and suddenly no sane person believes he beats any greats.

Maybe hold off on ranking a guy no 1 of all-time for beating Wlad, Wilder and Whyte.

Disagree. I picked Ruiz to beat Joshua on here under my old moniker. It is documented. I never rated Joshua highly,

Fury is a different level to anybody about at the moment. Usyk is closest but the difference in physical dimensions can't be overlooked. I've not seen anybody seriously involved in boxing who doesn't think that Fury is the business. Behind the cameras loads of people knew Joshua was a project, unproven and vulnerable. Tyson has been safe to be off the leash since he was 20.

jimmystone wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 05:15

Billy Tully wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 17:59 This absurd overpraising of Fury has finally reached pre-Ruiz Joshua levels. And all for a win over Dillian Whyte! Remember how prior to Andy Ruiz, fans had Joshua being too big and strong for every great in history and a thread about him vs Lennox ran for an obscene number of pages?

Then Andy Ruiz provided us a sober assessment of him and suddenly no sane person believes he beats any greats.

Maybe hold off on ranking a guy no 1 of all-time for beating Wlad, Wilder and Whyte.

Disagree. I picked Ruiz to beat Joshua on here under my old moniker. It is documented. I never rated Joshua highly,

Fury is a different level to anybody about at the moment. Usyk is closest but the difference in physical dimensions can't be overlooked. I've not seen anybody seriously involved in boxing who doesn't think that Fury is the business. Behind the cameras loads of people knew Joshua was a project, unproven and vulnerable. Tyson has been safe to be off the leash since he was 20.

You and i both picked Ruiz, but we are exceptions to the rule. The overpraising of Joshua by the majority here was ridiculous. Seriously, they had him beating Lennox, Ali and Tyson (Mike).

gregregegg wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 05:34 lucks always being a part of boxing... for example, if buster duglas didnt get a 13 second count he would of never beat mike tyson.... Its fine, there is a bit of luck in everything. just saying fury has got a good amount of it. and to be fair capitalised when he did.

That's seems very unlikely because Douglas looked in complete control. Douglas like any sensible boxer was waiting on the refs count. No point rushing to get up when the counts at 5-6

gregregegg wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 04:45 Vlad was 39.

How is this Fury's fault. Fury wanted a 35yo Wlad and Wlad said if he beat Chisora he'd box Fury but then avoided him for 4 years. Also a 39yo Wlad had still barely lost a round in a decade, is the best 39 year old heavyweight ever and is still pretty close to his prime given his physical condition. There was no sign ofobvious decline going into the Fury fight. He would also be outboxing AJ 2 years later at 41

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 06:07

gregregegg wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 04:45 Vlad was 39.

How is this Fury's fault. Fury wanted a 35yo Wlad and Wlad said if he beat Chisora he'd box Fury but then avoided him for 4 years. Also a 39yo Wlad had still barely lost a round in a decade, is the best 39 year old heavyweight ever and is still pretty close to his prime given his physical condition. There was no sign ofobvious decline going into the Fury fight. He would also be outboxing AJ 2 years later at 41

Klitschko fans always talk numbers, they never talk names. Understandable when his big wins are Sam Peter, Chris Byrd and David Haye. Talk about being King of the Dung Hill. Horrible, horrible era.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 06:34

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 06:07

gregregegg wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 04:45 Vlad was 39.

How is this Fury's fault. Fury wanted a 35yo Wlad and Wlad said if he beat Chisora he'd box Fury but then avoided him for 4 years. Also a 39yo Wlad had still barely lost a round in a decade, is the best 39 year old heavyweight ever and is still pretty close to his prime given his physical condition. There was no sign ofobvious decline going into the Fury fight. He would also be outboxing AJ 2 years later at 41

Klitschko fans always talk numbers, they never talk names. Understandable when his big wins are Sam Peter, Chris Byrd and David Haye. Talk about being King of the Dung Hill. Horrible, horrible era.

In comparison to today those aren’t terrible names. Surely Sam Peter would now on reflection seem quite superior to Dillian Whyte. And Byrd was very tricky. Lewis didn’t even really fancy that one. I do think Tyson Fury could have beaten those 3, but they would have been decent enough challenges.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 06:34

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 06:07

gregregegg wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 04:45 Vlad was 39.

How is this Fury's fault. Fury wanted a 35yo Wlad and Wlad said if he beat Chisora he'd box Fury but then avoided him for 4 years. Also a 39yo Wlad had still barely lost a round in a decade, is the best 39 year old heavyweight ever and is still pretty close to his prime given his physical condition. There was no sign ofobvious decline going into the Fury fight. He would also be outboxing AJ 2 years later at 41

Klitschko fans always talk numbers, they never talk names. Understandable when his big wins are Sam Peter, Chris Byrd and David Haye. Talk about being King of the Dung Hill. Horrible, horrible era.

Every era gets called a horrible era including the 90s and 70s at the time. Haye and Povetkin are probably better than anyone Tyson beat. Who did Larry Holmes beat that was so good? Norton? Witherspoon? Cooney? Not too much difference in quality. Wlad took plenty of zeros too.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 07:11

Billy Tully wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 06:34

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 06:07

How is this Fury's fault. Fury wanted a 35yo Wlad and Wlad said if he beat Chisora he'd box Fury but then avoided him for 4 years. Also a 39yo Wlad had still barely lost a round in a decade, is the best 39 year old heavyweight ever and is still pretty close to his prime given his physical condition. There was no sign ofobvious decline going into the Fury fight. He would also be outboxing AJ 2 years later at 41

Klitschko fans always talk numbers, they never talk names. Understandable when his big wins are Sam Peter, Chris Byrd and David Haye. Talk about being King of the Dung Hill. Horrible, horrible era.

Every era gets called a horrible era including the 90s and 70s at the time. Haye and Povetkin are probably better than anyone Tyson beat. Who did Larry Holmes beat that was so good? Norton? Witherspoon? Cooney? Not too much difference in quality. Wlad took plenty of zeros too.

Dear God man, you're delusional!

Billy Tully wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 07:16

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 07:11

Billy Tully wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 06:34

Klitschko fans always talk numbers, they never talk names. Understandable when his big wins are Sam Peter, Chris Byrd and David Haye. Talk about being King of the Dung Hill. Horrible, horrible era.

Every era gets called a horrible era including the 90s and 70s at the time. Haye and Povetkin are probably better than anyone Tyson beat. Who did Larry Holmes beat that was so good? Norton? Witherspoon? Cooney? Not too much difference in quality. Wlad took plenty of zeros too.

Dear God man, you're delusional!

Go on, what are Holmes and Tyson's great wins, school me

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:40

tonyevs wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 11:27

jimmystone wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 10:59 If he beat Usyk, Joshua and Joyce, I would put him as GOAT.

Really? Wow!

Who do you have beating him?

I have always thought:-

Lennox
Bowe
Foreman
Ali
Holmes

If he beats the lads I mentioned though I think it's very difficult to make a case he's not the best. He's adaptable, massive, fast, fit, switched on, game, can recover from a punch, and powerful. Last night was no revelation, it was a walk in the park as predicted, I've posted the above before more or less.

The only 1 who stands a chance against Fury is Lennox and he'd need to knock him out. Ali and Holmes are giving up 4 inches in height and 5 inches in reach. Fury can pick them off at distance and is a better infighter than both

Foreman got schooled in his prime by Jimmy Young and couldn't get close to him. So if he can't catch Jimmy Young, he won't catch Fury either. In his second career he was gatekeeper to the top 10.

Bowe got schooled and retired by Golota. Bowe's competition outside of Holyfield is very poor, he shamelessly ducked Lennox and he always had problems with boxers as a past prime Tony Tubbs arguably beat him. Fury schools him pretty easily. Lennox probably smashes him in a few rounds.