BoxRec

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:09

Controversial wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:07

mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 11:19
And still Lineal....

I don’t get this lineal champ thing and I’m sure it’s only been in recent years it’s been used. I don’t remember anyone claiming being lineal champ in the past. At some point the chain gets broken anyway if that fighter retires for good so then what happens, no one else can be lineal champ or it starts from scratch?

It’s always been there.. but usually the lineal champion has held the majority of belts.

It got more emphasised on recent years cus of Fury and anyone linked to him.

Controversial wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:15

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:09

Controversial wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:07

I don’t get this lineal champ thing and I’m sure it’s only been in recent years it’s been used. I don’t remember anyone claiming being lineal champ in the past. At some point the chain gets broken anyway if that fighter retires for good so then what happens, no one else can be lineal champ or it starts from scratch?

It’s always been there.. but usually the lineal champion has held the majority of belts.

It got more emphasised on recent years cus of Fury and anyone linked to him.

Yes that’s what I meant, it’s always been a thing but it’s only more recent it’s become a thing to brag about or claim.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑12 Feb 2022, 07:05

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Feb 2022, 05:16

i'll start with big tyson - having 'lineal' and 'ring magazine' on there will get you sozzled within minutes. add in

You spend much more time railing against Fury fans and their supposed obsession with lineal/etc, than Fury fans ever spend talking about it themselves as far as I can see**. You're much more obsessed in undercutting any talk of lineal titles, than they are about talking about them. But keep on pretending it's someone else's obsession, it's clearly fun for you

which is to say if there is any drinking game to be done here, it's 'every time maggie goes on as though boxrec is full of Fury fans who mention the lineal title in every single thread'. maybe these people exist and I just haven't seen them, who knows

** honestly in the last 6 months you're the only poster I can actually remember having this obsession with Fury and lineal title/ etc.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 17:58 Fury is the lineal heavyweight champion of the world although technically you could make the argument that Lennox Lewis is still the lineal heavyweight champion of the world but considering he has said he would never make a comeback and hasn't for more than a decade it's a safe bet to say he's no longer the lineal champion and that Tyson Fury is since he beat the consensus lineal champion.

I may be wrong but I am of the opinion that Tyson Fury will unretire to fight the winner of Joshua and Usyk therefore becoming a three-time heavyweight champion when he has defeated that person if he's capable of doing so Jesus willing.

By doing so he will join a short list of champions who were champion three times or more. But these modern-day fans don't understand anything because they want to say whoever has the most belts is the real champion and that is not the case and never has been the case in this sports history.

Finkel wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 23:38

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 17:58 Fury is the lineal heavyweight champion of the world although technically you could make the argument that Lennox Lewis is still the lineal heavyweight champion of the world but considering he has said he would never make a comeback and hasn't for more than a decade it's a safe bet to say he's no longer the lineal champion and that Tyson Fury is since he beat the consensus lineal champion.

I may be wrong but I am of the opinion that Tyson Fury will unretire to fight the winner of Joshua and Usyk therefore becoming a three-time heavyweight champion when he has defeated that person if he's capable of doing so Jesus willing.

By doing so he will join a short list of champions who were champion three times or more. But these modern-day fans don't understand anything because they want to say whoever has the most belts is the real champion and that is not the case and never has been the case in this sports history.

There is a contradiction there. You are suggesting Lennox relinquished his claim to lineal because he was truly retired in contrast to Fury who never truly retired so can maintain his claim.

But at the same time you are saying Fury can become "the true champion" three times.

That suggests he did in fact lose the belt once already when he retired after the Wlad fight. Which in turn suggests he became "the true champion" again by beating Wilder, which was always laughable on the face of it.

Also in the 80s, lineal buffs saw Spinks as "the true champion", but the world understood quite quickly the reality of what it meant for Mike Tyson having already become undisputed champion. That should have been obvious when Spinks wanted nothing to do with Tony Tucker and dropped the IBF belt rather than fight him.

Then, again in the 90s when Lewis defeated Briggs to become lineal champion it was cute but the world didn't really recognize him as the true champion until after he fought Holyfield.

But back to the main point there are too many contradictions and conveniences when it comes to who is and who isn't lineal since Lewis' retirement.

There seems to be multiple narratives currently competing regarding lineal from what I can see.
1. There has not been a lineal since Lewis.
2. Vitali became lineal after beating Sanders then lost the claim upon retirement (that one has been brushed under the carpet even though everyone understood him to be the clear man of the division)
3. Wlad won it against Chagaev because he couldn't fight Vitali them being brothers (strange exception) then lost it to Fury
4. Wlad actually won it against Povetkin (once his brother was retired again) then lost it to Fury
5. Fury never lost the lineal title because he never "really" retired
6. Fury did lose the title because he retired then became X2 Lineal Champion by beating Wilder in what was apparently a consensus #1 v #2, but that needed to conveniently ignore Andy Ruiz Jr. (a notion basically being pushed by American journalists)
7. Fury has just lost the title again because he has retired again, and now Joshua v Usyk can become lineal because it is #1 v #2. Which will allow Fury to win it a third time.
8. Fury lost the lineal title because he retired after beating Klitschko. Then Joshua won the lineal title because consensus #1 and #2 fought when Joshua v Klitschko happened, which means Ruiz Jr. was also lineal, then Joshua again, and currently Usyk is Lineal. Which will allow Fury to win it a second time.

Basically it's a mess, and if anyone believes they know the truth of the matter...well I hope they can publish a book on it one day

maverick23 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 01:26

Finkel wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 23:38

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 17:58 Fury is the lineal heavyweight champion of the world although technically you could make the argument that Lennox Lewis is still the lineal heavyweight champion of the world but considering he has said he would never make a comeback and hasn't for more than a decade it's a safe bet to say he's no longer the lineal champion and that Tyson Fury is since he beat the consensus lineal champion.

I may be wrong but I am of the opinion that Tyson Fury will unretire to fight the winner of Joshua and Usyk therefore becoming a three-time heavyweight champion when he has defeated that person if he's capable of doing so Jesus willing.

By doing so he will join a short list of champions who were champion three times or more. But these modern-day fans don't understand anything because they want to say whoever has the most belts is the real champion and that is not the case and never has been the case in this sports history.

There is a contradiction there. You are suggesting Lennox relinquished his claim to lineal because he was truly retired in contrast to Fury who never truly retired so can maintain his claim.

But at the same time you are saying Fury can become "the true champion" three times.

That suggests he did in fact lose the belt once already when he retired after the Wlad fight. Which in turn suggests he became "the true champion" again by beating Wilder, which was always laughable on the face of it.

Also in the 80s, lineal buffs saw Spinks as "the true champion", but the world understood quite quickly the reality of what it meant for Mike Tyson having already become undisputed champion. That should have been obvious when Spinks wanted nothing to do with Tony Tucker and dropped the IBF belt rather than fight him.

Then, again in the 90s when Lewis defeated Briggs to become lineal champion it was cute but the world didn't really recognize him as the true champion until after he fought Holyfield.

But back to the main point there are too many contradictions and conveniences when it comes to who is and who isn't lineal since Lewis' retirement.

There seems to be multiple narratives currently competing regarding lineal from what I can see.
1. There has not been a lineal since Lewis.
2. Vitali became lineal after beating Sanders then lost the claim upon retirement (that one has been brushed under the carpet even though everyone understood him to be the clear man of the division)
3. Wlad won it against Chagaev because he couldn't fight Vitali them being brothers (strange exception) then lost it to Fury
4. Wlad actually won it against Povetkin (once his brother was retired again) then lost it to Fury
5. Fury never lost the lineal title because he never "really" retired
6. Fury did lose the title because he retired then became X2 Lineal Champion by beating Wilder in what was apparently a consensus #1 v #2, but that needed to conveniently ignore Andy Ruiz Jr. (a notion basically being pushed by American journalists)
7. Fury has just lost the title again because he has retired again, and now Joshua v Usyk can become lineal because it is #1 v #2. Which will allow Fury to win it a third time.
8. Fury lost the lineal title because he retired after beating Klitschko. Then Joshua won the lineal title because consensus #1 and #2 fought when Joshua v Klitschko happened, which means Ruiz Jr. was also lineal, then Joshua again, and currently Usyk is Lineal. Which will allow Fury to win it a second time.

Basically it's a mess, and if anyone believes they know the truth of the matter...well I hope they can publish a book on it one day

This just shows how stupid the lineal thing is. It’s purely based on opinion.

maverick23 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 15:35Lineal hasn’t always been there. There was a period where there was one champion so it’s indisputable who the champ was then

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 05:06 WBC have given Fury until the Aug 26 for a written confirmation.

daz74 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 06:57 Really poor judgement giving up the Ring Belt, he can’t change his mind on that !

maverick23 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 06:03

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 05:06 WBC have given Fury until the Aug 26 for a written confirmation.

I get it. It’s not like Fury isn’t prone to changing his mind extremely quickly.

It is a shame though that the WBC didn’t take the opportunity to get crown an undisputed. There’s no mandatory due and I can’t imagine many people would disagree with the decision to do it.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:19

daz74 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 06:57 Really poor judgement giving up the Ring Belt, he can’t change his mind on that !

This is one of the reasons I’m leaning towards him not fighting again.

But then it’s also an angle.

Come back and say I never lost any belts bla bla.

daz74 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:24

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:19

daz74 wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 06:57 Really poor judgement giving up the Ring Belt, he can’t change his mind on that !

This is one of the reasons I’m leaning towards him not fighting again.

But then it’s also an angle.

Come back and say I never lost any belts bla bla.

LOL yeah he’ll say he never lost the Ring belt in the Ring !

tonyevs wrote: ↑15 Aug 2022, 02:37 ... latest being reported. Fury has until August 26th to confirm in writing if he really intends retiring.

And so it continues...

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:09

Controversial wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:07

mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 11:19
And still Lineal....

I don’t get this lineal champ thing and I’m sure it’s only been in recent years it’s been used. I don’t remember anyone claiming being lineal champ in the past. At some point the chain gets broken anyway if that fighter retires for good so then what happens, no one else can be lineal champ or it starts from scratch?

It’s always been there.. but usually the lineal champion has held the majority of belts.

It got more emphasised on recent years cus of Fury and anyone linked to him.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑15 Aug 2022, 05:41

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:09

Controversial wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 14:07

I don’t get this lineal champ thing and I’m sure it’s only been in recent years it’s been used. I don’t remember anyone claiming being lineal champ in the past. At some point the chain gets broken anyway if that fighter retires for good so then what happens, no one else can be lineal champ or it starts from scratch?

It’s always been there.. but usually the lineal champion has held the majority of belts.

It got more emphasised on recent years cus of Fury and anyone linked to him.

There has been other times when fans despute who's the real champ or who's best

Firstly going back to Jack Johnson. Racist fans still said Jim Jeffries the prior retired champ was the best and lineal. So Jeffries comes out of retirement and ofcourse gets beat.

Muhammed Ali - gets stripped of his belts after not going to war. Frazier unifies the belts but is not lineal until he beats Ali

Tyson has all the belts but Spinks is lineal. Many thought Spinks would beat Tyson believe it or not

Holyfield wins 2 of the belts but Lennox has the WBC and beats Briggs for the lineal. So Lennox is lineal (Really Holyfield should of been lineal because Schulz deserved the win over Foreman but I digress)

Roy Jones holds all LHW major belts bar the WBO but Dariusz longname is the lineal champion. Many people held that against RJJ but neither the 2 would ever get on a plane.

Hamed unified all the belts but only kept hold of the WBO and was lineal. MAB just stuck with the lineal/ring magazine title.

At the end of the days it's proving you're the best and beating the man who beat the man is kind of vital to get that recognition in nearly all cases