BoxRec

Monzon83 wrote: ↑18 Jan 2024, 18:02 Maybe he’s on a TRT dose?

Anyway, who gives a shit, British fighters are very hypocritical. Overseas fighter having drug test anomalies or adverse findings and they can’t shut up about it.

Fury tests positive for Nandrolone. The moron Whyte tests positive for Dianabol and then fails another test. Yet barely a word about that.

Conor Benn tests positive for Clomid, a drug that is used specifically to restart testosterone production after steroid usage and apparently he’s just eaten too many eggs.

The double standards here are embarrassing.

I agree, there are double standards here, but you are looking for them in the wrong place, imho.
You named several boxers who failed tests.
But VADA did not say "adverse finding" about Beterbiev's tests.
It means that Beterbiev did not fail any test, his tests were not positive. Hearn and Callum Smith said it themselves.
But many are trying to conduct the discussion as if Beterbiev failed the tests, comparing him with those who actually failed.
These are double standards. Or at least a misunderstanding.

But I am not satisfied with this situation myself. VADA should provide more info about these mysterious atypical tests, the real numbers, the real levels. And provide more info about tests, collected before December 6. How many tests did VADA get in connection with this fight, from both boxers? On what dates exactly?

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:01
Ask Jean Pascal.

Beterbievs S&C coach used to coach Pascal,
not saying that means anything as I’m sure they work with lots of fighters over the years.

Controversial wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:14

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:01
Ask Jean Pascal.

Beterbievs S&C coach used to coach Pascal,
not saying that means anything as I’m sure they work with lots of fighters over the years.

ah, not a great sign is it though

Controversial wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:14 Beterbievs S&C coach used to coach Pascal

And Lucian Bute. And Bermane Stiverne. But that in itself doesn't prove anything.

omalley wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:34

Controversial wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:14 Beterbievs S&C coach used to coach Pascal

And Lucian Bute. And Bermane Stiverne. But that in itself doesn't prove anything.

none of it is a good indicator though is it.

Stevenson also would have been happy to PED, he was happy to pimp women, he's the only fighter where brain injury was deserved.

I have said this on other ped threads…

The only way for drug testing to work is for every test to be reported with full details on type of test, substances tested for, and exact levles found…

They can still make their interpretation, but if every detail about every test is publisised the day of the test/results… then you can’t trick the public. With the current system it’s “he tested high here but normal here so Mabey he is fine” and we never get enough details to make our own fair judgment…

Give us everything, make your decision, and fans can make there’s…

gregregegg wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 02:21 With the current system it’s “he tested high here but normal here so Mabey he is fine”

To my understanding, VADA stated “he tested higher then usual here, but not really high, and normal there, so he is fine”. Levels were above some threshold for "normal", but below the threshold for "adverse".
VADA did not say "adverse finding" about Beterbiev's tests.

if Callum had lost to Ryder as he should have if UK boxing wasn't corrupt, this wouldn't be an issue. Skoglund was taking rounds off him and he needed a kd to seal that fight at the end. We saw the pitiful Canelo performance. It's no shock that he found himself in another league vs Beterbiev. He should retire now before his true level gets exposed by the Yardes, Buatsis and Lerrone Richards although excuses will be made that he couldn't get up for the fights.

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:55

omalley wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:34

Controversial wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:14 Beterbievs S&C coach used to coach Pascal

And Lucian Bute. And Bermane Stiverne. But that in itself doesn't prove anything.

none of it is a good indicator though is it.

Stevenson also would have been happy to PED, he was happy to pimp women, he's the only fighter where brain injury was deserved.

Yeah hopefully Stevenson is skint and selling his own ass to get by.

watched the interview with dom ingle about this , he seems to know about this stuff so i'll go by what he says , he said them readings were a narural hormone that can be incresed by diet and or excercise where was he tested don;t think they gave him 24 hyrs to show at thyere office , could of been the gym after excercise , whatever does'nt matter apparantly its a natural thing ,,, But he said something else excatly what i've been trying to say here ,, BB did'nt turn into a monster overnight , he's been one for the last 20 fights ,so i wil add , its just that this was a real easy fight for him

coneye wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:16 BB did'nt turn into a monster overnight , he's been one for the last 20 fights ,so i wil add , its just that this was a real easy fight for him

To be fair I don’t think anyone is saying PEDS make anyone technically better, if you are a great fighter then you are great fighter, with or without PEDS. But PEDS can help with strength, reaction, recovery etc.. so it will make a great fighter more dangerous. Maybe it was a natural spike, we will never know but they apparently give fairly generous leeway when testing so for it to flag up as atypical surely means it was pretty high in both growth hormone and testosterone. It can’t be that common otherwise surely fighters would be getting these results all the time.

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:31 Maybe it was a natural spike, we will never know but they apparently give fairly generous leeway when testing so for it to flag up as atypical surely means it was pretty high in both growth hormone and testosterone.

We don't know it. But we do know that VADA did not classify it as an "adverse finding". VADA did not classify the test as positive.
I don't think Beterbiev bribed VADA. So I suppose that this "spike" was not high enough to be marked as adverse.

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:31 It can’t be that common otherwise surely fighters would be getting these results all the time.

Some people say fighters are getting these results, but this is not going public, because it is not classified as positive test.

omalley wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 07:16

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:31 Maybe it was a natural spike, we will never know but they apparently give fairly generous leeway when testing so for it to flag up as atypical surely means it was pretty high in both growth hormone and testosterone.

We don't know it. But we do know that VADA did not classify it as an "adverse finding". VADA did not classify the test as positive.
I don't think Beterbiev bribed VADA. So I suppose that this "spike" was not high enough to be marked as adverse.

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:31 It can’t be that common otherwise surely fighters would be getting these results all the time.

Some people say fighters are getting these results, but this is not going public, because it is not classified as positive test.

It wasn't a pass though, they needed to do more tests weeks later and they came back ok. We can read into that what we want, as I say they give generous leeway when testing to account for them potentially having higher levels than the average person as they are elite athletes, training hard, taking natural supplements etc

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 07:43 It wasn't a pass though, they needed to do more tests weeks later and they came back ok.

It was a pass after all. The overall result: Beterbiev didn't fail any test (no adverse finding) and passed VADA testing as a whole.

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 07:43 We can read into that what we want, as I say they give generous leeway when testing to account for them having higher levels than the average person as they are elite athletes, training hard, taking natural supplements etc

Sorry, you (and I) don't know it. You may have some general assumptions, but you do not know. If you do, tell us real results, real numbers, real levels, please.
As I have said already, I agree that VADA should provide more info about these mysterious atypical tests, the real numbers, the real levels. And provide more info about tests, collected before December 6.

omalley wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 08:16

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 07:43 It wasn't a pass though, they needed to do more tests weeks later and they came back ok.

It was a pass after all. The overall result: Beterbiev didn't fail any test (no adverse finding) and passed VADA testing as a whole.

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 07:43 We can read into that what we want, as I say they give generous leeway when testing to account for them having higher levels than the average person as they are elite athletes, training hard, taking natural supplements etc

Sorry, you (and I) don't know it. You may have some general assumptions, but you do not know. If you do, tell us real results, real numbers, real levels, please.
As I have said already, I agree that VADA should provide more info about these mysterious atypical tests, the real numbers, the real levels. And provide more info about tests, collected before December 6.

Yes he passed. I don’t know the levels but I’ve listened to a few podcasts with Conte and others with knowledge of these things and it’s been stated on these the levels to fail are higher than what would be considered abnormal levels in the average person. I guess the fact the testing agencies don’t publish the levels suggests they don’t want them being public knowledge. There’s a couple of decent Netflix docs on PEDS, worth watching as it shows you with a bit of knowledge it’s almost impossible to get caught.



.

stevec@france wrote: ↑18 Jan 2024, 10:02 he will pick his fights carefully now and stay away from the UK for example where the testing would " probably " catch him out .
VADA seems to be less stringent IMHO

Beterbiev vs Yarde was in London last year.
VADA has a good reputation.
Do you want Beterbiev to stage all his training camp in the UK? This is an absurd demand.

coneye wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:16 watched the interview with dom ingle about this , he seems to know about this stuff so i'll go by what he says , he said them readings were a narural hormone that can be incresed by diet and or excercise where was he tested don;t think they gave him 24 hyrs to show at thyere office , could of been the gym after excercise , whatever does'nt matter apparantly its a natural thing ,,, But he said something else excatly what i've been trying to say here ,, BB did'nt turn into a monster overnight , he's been one for the last 20 fights ,so i wil add , its just that this was a real easy fight for him

Dom definitely would know plenty about PEDs.

Gosh. Imagine if the dude had failed a test.

I do agree that people’s predetermined opinion of a man colours the ability to be objective. I for example, fully accept that Fury and Benn are drug cheats but accept that Alvarez was naive with where his food was coming from and Beterbiev has passed all his tests so at the moment I consider him clean.

high tower 1 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 03:11

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:55

omalley wrote: ↑19 Jan 2024, 18:34
And Lucian Bute. And Bermane Stiverne. But that in itself doesn't prove anything.

none of it is a good indicator though is it.

Stevenson also would have been happy to PED, he was happy to pimp women, he's the only fighter where brain injury was deserved.

Yeah hopefully Stevenson is skint and selling his own ass to get by.

Amen.

omalley wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 07:16

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:31 Maybe it was a natural spike, we will never know but they apparently give fairly generous leeway when testing so for it to flag up as atypical surely means it was pretty high in both growth hormone and testosterone.

We don't know it. But we do know that VADA did not classify it as an "adverse finding". VADA did not classify the test as positive.
I don't think Beterbiev bribed VADA. So I suppose that this "spike" was not high enough to be marked as adverse.

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:31 It can’t be that common otherwise surely fighters would be getting these results all the time.

Some people say fighters are getting these results, but this is not going public, because it is not classified as positive test.

And really it should'nt go public , IF there found too high and If there found guilty fair enough its akin to breaking the law , its definetly breaking the rules , so yeh ,, make public , what , they tested for and how much , state how much above legal limit they are , yep the full monte .

But if they don't test positive , there blood levels everything else is a medical detail and non of any one elses buisness .

Last week i had my yearly piss test , and blood test mainly to check the prostate , doc suggested this time i test for everything possible , so it came back , Liver good , cholestrol excellent , kidney function good , prostate , reading good , heart looking good , , vitamin d , down , suggested more sun , or vitamins , everything good to very good , also weight good , blood pressure good , all in all excellent shape , hair all mine , teeth all mine ,,

There ya go i released all my personal information , cos i don't give a shit , but tell ya what , let me come on a boxing forum , or open a newspaper , and see it all released by my doctot WITHOUT my persmision , and he will be in a civil court case quicker than you can say jack flash .

We have NO RIGHT to BB or anyone elses medical records

Has anyone learnt if there was a spike and how much of a spike this is compared to any previous reading compared to any difference that might be expected?

I tend to think if Beterbiev had never been a boxer and was just a lumberjack in Canada who worked out constantly and he mentioned that his doctor had told him he had unusually high testosterone and human growth hormone levels I would probably accept it and not assume he was taking anything.
I reckon the type of boxer he is is probably due to his 'atypical' physical make up. He didnt' suddenly get strong.

To me it also appeared that he has adjusted his style to last better as an aging boxer. His workrate was a little lower but he still maintained decent pressure and wasted very little. Something that GGG couldn't do in the 3rd Canelo fight, this was his most impressive performance to me despite Smith not being a top opponent.

This is why regular tests would help set a baseline so each individuals levels can be compared to their own readings. What do VADA base their typical levels on?

coneye wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 19:29

omalley wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 07:16

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:31 Maybe it was a natural spike, we will never know but they apparently give fairly generous leeway when testing so for it to flag up as atypical surely means it was pretty high in both growth hormone and testosterone.

We don't know it. But we do know that VADA did not classify it as an "adverse finding". VADA did not classify the test as positive.
I don't think Beterbiev bribed VADA. So I suppose that this "spike" was not high enough to be marked as adverse.

Controversial wrote: ↑20 Jan 2024, 06:31 It can’t be that common otherwise surely fighters would be getting these results all the time.

Some people say fighters are getting these results, but this is not going public, because it is not classified as positive test.

And really it should'nt go public , IF there found too high and If there found guilty fair enough its akin to breaking the law , its definetly breaking the rules , so yeh ,, make public , what , they tested for and how much , state how much above legal limit they are , yep the full monte .

But if they don't test positive , there blood levels everything else is a medical detail and non of any one elses buisness .

The Big Sports (Olympic and professional) live by their own laws.
Some testing agency said your test was positive - you are a cheater. Case closed. Guilty until proven innocent.
Do you know what WADA ADAMS is and how it works? They completely violate the right to privacy.

Off topic but why is AB so inactive? The bloke hardly fights, he's been a pro 11 years and only had 20 fights. If you take it from 2017 he's had 9 fights in 8 years! Has he had injuries, I can't say I know too much about him.

2024 = 1 fight (so far)
2023 = 1 fight
2022 = 1 fight
2021 = 2 fights
2020 = 0
2019 = 2 fights
2018 = 1 fight
2017 = 1 fight
2016 = 2 fights
2015 = 2 fights
2014 = 4 fights
2013 = 3 fights

Controversial wrote: ↑21 Jan 2024, 07:20 Off topic but why is AB so inactive? The bloke hardly fights, he's been a pro 11 years and only had 20 fights. If you take it from 2017 he's had 9 fights in 8 years! Has he had injuries, I can't say I know too much about him.

20 fights and only 98 rounds!
Yes, he had injuries, litigations with managers/promoters, and we had the COVID-19 pandemic.
But as a result, he is not battle-worn in profi, "young" 39-years-old fighter (he had very long amateur career though, since childhood).

In athletics, cycling, soccer and triathlon probably the Beterbiev result would be more serious as they work on a biological passport system usually, so changes tend to have a much harder please explain onus attached to them. Boxing and UFC are more obviously in the cowboy zone and people get away with a lot more.