BoxRec

What an hilarious thread. Excellent work

How did the IBF become big anyway? It came out in the same decade of the WBO.

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Max Molyneux wrote:How did the IBF become big anyway? It came out in the same decade of the WBO.

Larry Holmes, their first champ, fought good opposition.

nickd wrote:Old weight drained Eubank the same as Tszyu? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on here bar none. No offence. 8)

No its debatable Tyuzus stamina was shot to pieces and he'd had 3rounds in what 3years? His speed was gone. Losing your stamina is worse than been weight drained to some extent. Tyuzu thought he was at his best - he probably was his best in 1min bursts but not over 12.

And lets compare the all round abilities - Eubank is far superior to Tyuzu. When Tyuzus put under pressure he doesn't know what to do - Chris had superior movement, defense (tyuzu just look to overpower opponents), speed, Eubanks chin was better.......Tyuzu was a bigger hitter and finnisher (maybe more exciting but so is Gatti) but beyond that what did he do better than Eubank? And I'm obviously talking P4P

Max Molyneux wrote:How did the IBF become big anyway? It came out in the same decade of the WBO.

Larry Holmes dumped his belt and picked up the IBF so THE MAN at HW had it

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

nickd wrote:Old weight drained Eubank the same as Tszyu? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on here bar none. No offence. 8)

No its debatable Tyuzus stamina was shot to pieces and he'd had 3rounds in what 3years? His speed was gone. Losing your stamina is worse than been weight drained to some extent. Tyuzu thought he was at his best - he probably was his best in 1min bursts but not over 12.

And lets compare the all round abilities - Eubank is far superior to Tyuzu. When Tyuzus put under pressure he doesn't know what to do - Chris had superior movement, defense (tyuzu just look to overpower opponents), speed, Eubanks chin was better.......Tyuzu was a bigger hitter and finnisher (maybe more exciting but so is Gatti) but beyond that what did he do better than Eubank? And I'm obviously talking P4P

Do me a favour. Tszyu was at or near the top of EVERYONE's pound for pound lists. Eubank wasn't ever in anyone's top 10 was he? Let alone near the top. AND Eubank was fighting at light heavyweight at the time as he couldn't make supermiddle anymore so came in absolutely drained. And Eubank fought on 11 days notice, Tszyu has 16 weeks to prepare for Hatton. I really don't see how you can compare the two seriously. We're not comparing the two fighters skills and attributes here but where were they in their careers? Eubank was on the way down, Tszyu has just wiped out Mitchell easily and was a world champion and THE MAN at 140.

nickd wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

nickd wrote:Old weight drained Eubank the same as Tszyu? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on here bar none. No offence. 8)

No its debatable Tyuzus stamina was shot to pieces and he'd had 3rounds in what 3years? His speed was gone. Losing your stamina is worse than been weight drained to some extent. Tyuzu thought he was at his best - he probably was his best in 1min bursts but not over 12.

And lets compare the all round abilities - Eubank is far superior to Tyuzu. When Tyuzus put under pressure he doesn't know what to do - Chris had superior movement, defense (tyuzu just look to overpower opponents), speed, Eubanks chin was better.......Tyuzu was a bigger hitter and finnisher (maybe more exciting but so is Gatti) but beyond that what did he do better than Eubank? And I'm obviously talking P4P

Do me a favour. Tszyu was at or near the top of EVERYONE's pound for pound lists. Eubank wasn't ever in anyone's top 10 was he? Let alone near the top. AND Eubank was fighting at light heavyweight at the time as he couldn't make supermiddle anymore so came in absolutely drained. And Eubank fought on 11 days notice, Tszyu has 16 weeks to prepare for Hatton. I really don't see how you can compare the two seriously. We're not comparing the two fighters skills and attributes here but where were they in their careers? Eubank was on the way down, Tszyu has just wiped out Mitchell easily and was a world champion and THE MAN at 140.

Your not debating with me in what way other than 1 punch power and finnishing Tyuzu does P4P better then Eubank - Eubanks just better all round. P4P is about comparing skills P4P not on achievement but Eubanks wins P4P are as good as Tyuzus.

A fighter without stamina isn't P4P. Tyuzu showed against Hatton he can't even use a jab when needed. Tyuzu admitted hes not 'naturally' that talented and he has to work hard for what hes got.

Tyuzu shouldn't of been on the top of everyones P4P lists though. Tyuzu was at the right place at the right time. His win against Judah was pretty much like MCCalls win against Lennox. Judah would outclass Tyuzu if there was ever a rematch imo.

That's not the point.

The point is Tszyu was still a world champion and had just blown away the interim champion in good style.

Eubank had lost his title 2 years previously and was fighting at light heavyweight.

On that basis alone how can you compare the 2 victories?

nickd wrote:Old weight drained Eubank the same as Tszyu? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on here bar none. No offence. 8)

The best opponents Calzaghes faced are Eubank, Woodhall, Brewer and Reid.... hardly hall of fame stuff for an 8 year reign!.

Agreed Silkov but don't forget Sheika and Mitchell. They were decent victories.

I have to side with anti-Calzaghe posts, hardly surprising but the guy is all talk and no action, he is constantly talking himself up above his status. I can't remember the poster who made the point about Lacy being a champion for a year so how can he be the defining fight but i agree. Overrall Calzaghe's level of opposition has been poor to abysmal, i lost all respect for the guy when he gave Mario Veit a rematch, he could have ditched his alphabelt and looked elsewhere.

He should have fought in America ages ago, it was clear the big guys were not going to come to him as he had no profile across the pond to attract them. When he did get his big chance versus Johnson he fiddled about until Johnson grew tired and signed for another fight.

Calzaghe had been way too inactive to walk away from a Veit rematch, for the money he was collecting.

nickd wrote:That's not the point.

The point is Tszyu was still a world champion and had just blown away the interim champion in good style.

Eubank had lost his title 2 years previously and was fighting at light heavyweight.

On that basis alone how can you compare the 2 victories?

Eubank lost his title in a tight fight 2years earlier and Tyuzu hadn't fought more than 3rounds in 2years. Whats the difference?

BTW Im usually as anti-Calazage as the best of them but I think its getting out of hand. Hatton on the whole has been worse and still has to prove himself. Ashiras possibly is as dangerous as Maussa yet people aren't complaining about Maussa

Yeah, hard to blame him for taking 3/4's of a million. I'm just so bored with it all now. Just fight someone already.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

nickd wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: No its debatable Tyuzus stamina was shot to pieces and he'd had 3rounds in what 3years? His speed was gone. Losing your stamina is worse than been weight drained to some extent. Tyuzu thought he was at his best - he probably was his best in 1min bursts but not over 12.

And lets compare the all round abilities - Eubank is far superior to Tyuzu. When Tyuzus put under pressure he doesn't know what to do - Chris had superior movement, defense (tyuzu just look to overpower opponents), speed, Eubanks chin was better.......Tyuzu was a bigger hitter and finnisher (maybe more exciting but so is Gatti) but beyond that what did he do better than Eubank? And I'm obviously talking P4P

Do me a favour. Tszyu was at or near the top of EVERYONE's pound for pound lists. Eubank wasn't ever in anyone's top 10 was he? Let alone near the top. AND Eubank was fighting at light heavyweight at the time as he couldn't make supermiddle anymore so came in absolutely drained. And Eubank fought on 11 days notice, Tszyu has 16 weeks to prepare for Hatton. I really don't see how you can compare the two seriously. We're not comparing the two fighters skills and attributes here but where were they in their careers? Eubank was on the way down, Tszyu has just wiped out Mitchell easily and was a world champion and THE MAN at 140.

Your not debating with me in what way other than 1 punch power and finnishing Tyuzu does P4P better then Eubank - Eubanks just better all round. P4P is about comparing skills P4P not on achievement but Eubanks wins P4P are as good as Tyuzus.

A fighter without stamina isn't P4P. Tyuzu showed against Hatton he can't even use a jab when needed. Tyuzu admitted hes not 'naturally' that talented and he has to work hard for what hes got.

Tyuzu shouldn't of been on the top of everyones P4P lists though. Tyuzu was at the right place at the right time. His win against Judah was pretty much like MCCalls win against Lennox. Judah would outclass Tyuzu if there was ever a rematch imo.

Hang on a minute. Tszyu, who you yourself predicted would stop Hatton in the 1st half of the fight, is now washed-up, can't jab, and quits at the first opportunity?

Hindsight is a wonederful thing, but Hatton has beaten the concensus man at his weight, at the time, something Joe's never even attempted (and I say that as a card-carrying Eubank fan).

I actually agree that Calzaghe has fought better opposition than Ricky but then as he himself has pointed out... he's been champion for 4 years longer than Ricky. The truth is that while beating Kostya was a good result at the end of the day Tsyu had been inactive and injury plagued for the past couple of years and is 35?36 so its hardly as if Rickys beaten Aaron Pryor is it.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

nickd wrote:That's not the point.

The point is Tszyu was still a world champion and had just blown away the interim champion in good style.

Eubank had lost his title 2 years previously and was fighting at light heavyweight.

On that basis alone how can you compare the 2 victories?

Eubank lost his title in a tight fight 2years earlier and Tyuzu hadn't fought more than 3rounds in 2years. Whats the difference?

BTW Im usually as anti-Calazage as the best of them but I think its getting out of hand. Hatton on the whole has been worse and still has to prove himself. Ashiras possibly is as dangerous as Maussa yet people aren't complaining about Maussa

Huge difference. Tszyu was still champion and as much as you want to dismiss it he was near the top of everyones pound for pound lists that cannot be disputed. He had just beaten the interim world champion in 3 rounds blowing him away.

Eubank had lost his title 2 years 7 months earlier to Collins and was unsuccessful challenging him 2 years before fighting Calzaghe.

I really cant see how you can seriously comapre the two. Tszyu was still at or near the top of his game Eubank was treading water.

silkov wrote:I actually agree that Calzaghe has fought better opposition than Ricky but then as he himself has pointed out... he's been champion for 4 years longer than Ricky. The truth is that while beating Kostya was a good result at the end of the day Tsyu had been inactive and injury plagued for the past couple of years and is 35?36 so its hardly as if Rickys beaten Aaron Pryor is it.

Who's saying he is? But Hatton's result over Tszyu is more impressive than Calzaghe over Eubank in anyones book surely? For reasons I have stated elsewhere in this thread. One was a champion the other an ex champion of 2 years 7 months.

By the way please dont think I am trying to belittle Eubank that is not my intention, the man was some warrior!

I find it astonishing Eubank is even being compared to Tszyu. Eubank just didn't box the same high quality opposition (or as often) as Tszyu did. Eubank could look good against the lower levels, but it's making your attributes tell against the world class foes that confirms a boxers standing, and Kostya holds up to scrutiny far better than Eubank does.

THEBUTCH wrote:I find it astonishing Eubank is even being compared to Tszyu. Eubank just didn't box the same high quality opposition (or as often) as Tszyu did. Eubank could look good against the lower levels, but it's making your attributes tell against the world class foes that confirms a boxers standing, and Kostya holds up to scrutiny far better than Eubank does.

Eubank fought world class in Benn, Rochiagani and Watson. Whos Tyuzu fought thats world class? Mitchell never beat anyone, Charvez was shot beyond belief, Judah was acting the fool. I'd say there comp is comparable.

No Eubank didnt fight Jones Jr or TOney but Tyuzu didnt fight Mosley or Delahoya. If Mosley or Delahoya stopped at 140 Tyuzu wouldnt have been unified champ and would of been ko'd be either.

Tszyu was undisputed champion while Eubank spent most of his career on the WBO merry go round.....

nickd wrote:Tszyu was undisputed champion while Eubank spent most of his career on the WBO merry go round.....

So I'm talking about quality of fighter and meaningful fights and to the degree of them both been past their best. I'd say its comparable

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

nickd wrote:Tszyu was undisputed champion while Eubank spent most of his career on the WBO merry go round.....

So I'm talking about quality of fighter and meaningful fights and to the degree of them both been past their best. I'd say its comparable

I agree that they are very comparable. Eubank despite his eccentricities was a very good boxer and scored some very good wins in world class.
It should be remembered also that Calzaghe had to beat Eubank for the title... who did Hatton beat for his WBU title???.
I had high hopes for Calzaghe in the early days and although he seems to be an arse its a crying shame that he's piddling away his talents in the alleys of the WBO!...... :x