BoxRec

Collins2000 wrote:You seriously think the Coetzee who lost to Bruno was in his prime?

SORRY I MEANT TO PUT PAGE, NOT BRUNO




coatzee was not a great fighter. he was a goodfighter with a solid right hand, long reach, plenty of toughness, but he was very limited. and i doubt whether he would have beat a dokes who wasnt a coke addict when he fought him.



there is no justifiable reason to be a top 10 heavyweight and lose in ur prime to page, weaver, snipes, tate. i mean honestly if u really think coatzee is a top ten heavy on a head to head sense, i want to hear the reasons?


honestly can u picture lennox lewis or marciano losing to any one of those 4 in there prime?

coatzee a top 10 head to head heavyweight.....you have to be kidding

marciano would chew that bum up and spit him out, possibly ending his career, lewis would do the same but he'd try to carry coatzee through 2 rounds. marciano would swarm all over him beating him senseless....lewis however would jab him through the first round completely outclassing him then finish him off in the second.

marciano ugly ko 1 coatzee

lewis ko 2 coatzee

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:You seriously think the Coetzee who lost to Bruno was in his prime?

SORRY I MEANT TO PUT PAGE, NOT BRUNO




coatzee was not a great fighter. he was a goodfighter with a solid right hand, long reach, plenty of toughness, but he was very limited. and i doubt whether he would have beat a dokes who wasnt a coke addict when he fought him.



there is no justifiable reason to be a top 10 heavyweight and lose in ur prime to page, weaver, snipes, tate. i mean honestly if u really think coatzee is a top ten heavy on a head to head sense, i want to hear the reasons?


honestly can u picture lennox lewis or marciano losing to any one of those 4 in there prime?

Oh, I dunno, I remember Lewis getting KO'd with one punch from Crack Head McCall.

Collins2000 wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:You seriously think the Coetzee who lost to Bruno was in his prime?

SORRY I MEANT TO PUT PAGE, NOT BRUNO




coatzee was not a great fighter. he was a goodfighter with a solid right hand, long reach, plenty of toughness, but he was very limited. and i doubt whether he would have beat a dokes who wasnt a coke addict when he fought him.



there is no justifiable reason to be a top 10 heavyweight and lose in ur prime to page, weaver, snipes, tate. i mean honestly if u really think coatzee is a top ten heavy on a head to head sense, i want to hear the reasons?


honestly can u picture lennox lewis or marciano losing to any one of those 4 in there prime?

Oh, I dunno, I remember Lewis getting KO'd with one punch from Crack Head McCall.

well i guess if a cocky, underprepared, lazy lewis shows up that result could happen if he gets caught, but thats all coatzee has is a punchers chance.

a peak lewis would walk right through coatzee and literally destroy him worse than bruno did .

Collins2000 wrote:You seriously think the Coetzee who lost to Bruno was in his prime?

I agree Collins, Coetzee was past his best when he fought Bruno and had a lot of operations on his hand prior to the bout. Coetzee of say the Weaver or Dokes fight would knockout Bruno early.

RazorKO wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:You seriously think the Coetzee who lost to Bruno was in his prime?

I agree Collins, Coetzee was past his best when he fought Bruno and had a lot of operations on his hand prior to the bout. Coetzee of say the Weaver or Dokes fight would knockout Bruno early.

razor,


if u really think coatzee would beat marciano and lewis, i want good anaylsis of why coatzee would beat them both, i want ur reasons?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

RazorKO wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:You seriously think the Coetzee who lost to Bruno was in his prime?

I agree Collins, Coetzee was past his best when he fought Bruno and had a lot of operations on his hand prior to the bout. Coetzee of say the Weaver or Dokes fight would knockout Bruno early.

razor,


if u really think coatzee would beat marciano and lewis, i want good anaylsis of why coatzee would beat them both, i want ur reasons?

Brocky,

I don't think he could beat Marciano who could take a lot of stick and still come back and win, but if he landed his best punch early against Lewis then he could certainly win that one spectacularly.

You've seen Lewis KO'd by one shot from both McCall and Rahman, neither of whom are any better than Coetzee.

well i think theres no qeustion marciano wins, not only does he match up well with coatzee, no one has any legit arguement for coatzee beating him.



with lennox lewis, it different. based on those 2 fights, yes u can make somewhat of an arguement coatzee would beat him.


but i can also esily make a case why lewis would stomp through coatzee very fast

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:well i think theres no qeustion marciano wins, not only does he match up well with coatzee, no one has any legit arguement for coatzee beating him.



with lennox lewis, it different. based on those 2 fights, yes u can make somewhat of an arguement coatzee would beat him.


but i can also esily make a case why lewis would stomp through coatzee very fast

Of course you can, these are only made up scenarios based on our individual perceptions and opinions, Brocky. They are not the word of God. Well mine aren't anyway.

One thing you don't seem to able to do though is spell Coetzee's name. For an aspiring historian, I'd have thought that sort of thing was reasonably important.

Collins2000 wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:well i think theres no qeustion marciano wins, not only does he match up well with coatzee, no one has any legit arguement for coatzee beating him.



with lennox lewis, it different. based on those 2 fights, yes u can make somewhat of an arguement coatzee would beat him.


but i can also esily make a case why lewis would stomp through coatzee very fast

Of course you can, these are only made up scenarios based on our individual perceptions and opinions, Brocky. They are not the word of God. Well mine aren't anyway.

One thing you don't seem to able to do though is spell Coetzee's name. For an aspiring historian, I'd have thought that sort of thing was reasonably important.

looks like ill have to retake my 2nd grade spelling bees :x

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:You seriously think the Coetzee who lost to Bruno was in his prime?

SORRY I MEANT TO PUT PAGE, NOT BRUNO




coatzee was not a great fighter. he was a goodfighter with a solid right hand, long reach, plenty of toughness, but he was very limited. and i doubt whether he would have beat a dokes who wasnt a coke addict when he fought him.



there is no justifiable reason to be a top 10 heavyweight and lose in ur prime to page, weaver, snipes, tate. i mean honestly if u really think coatzee is a top ten heavy on a head to head sense, i want to hear the reasons?


honestly can u picture lennox lewis or marciano losing to any one of those 4 in there prime?

Coetzee had the power to ko Lewis, he hit far harder and was a better all round fighter than Mccall and Rahman and he fought much better opposition than LEWIS generally. Again, Lewis was a good fighter but not a great one and he had only an average chin.

You guys are funny, whilst I agree with Holmes beating Tyson in a peak versus peak fight you just love to have a go at BrocktonBlockbuster.

Someone puts Coetzee in their top 10 and you're busy having a go at him for disagreeing???

Because of the way Lewis' two loses occured you could make a case for any heavy with a punch beating him but this is who beats who on their best night no?

Lewis was KO'd twice by average fighters with solid punches BUT he was never mastered in the ring, never beaten up. Klitchsko probably came closest but even in that fight the tide was turning. Coetzee has a chance but IMO Lewis takes him on 4 out fo 5 fights.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

RazorKO wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:You seriously think the Coetzee who lost to Bruno was in his prime?

I agree Collins, Coetzee was past his best when he fought Bruno and had a lot of operations on his hand prior to the bout. Coetzee of say the Weaver or Dokes fight would knockout Bruno early.

razor,


if u really think coatzee would beat marciano and lewis, i want good anaylsis of why coatzee would beat them both, i want ur reasons?

Well first of all we know how poor Rocky's era was in the first place, old Joe Louis, Charles and Walcott who were both past it and Rex Layne who was a 'Gate Keeper' at best.

Walcott who was past it still outboxed Rocky and even floored him with a hook in the 1st, but Rocky found the one punch to win while Charles was also past it but Rocky struggled with Charles both times failing to Knock him out in their first meeting.

If Coetzee would of fought Rocky, not only would Coetzee be by far the best heavyweight Rocky has fought, Coetzee could box or slug and give Marciano problems - No way in hell does Mariano KO Coetzee early as he showed in the Weaver fight he can take a terrific punch and if Rocky does win hes going to have a hard time getting his hand up in victory.

Coetzee would probably outbox Rocky like he did Dokes and outpoint him....or stop him late, but Rocky could win also but as I said he better be prepared for a long and gruelling fight.

As for Coetzee vs Lewis - Lewis can only win if he holds on for dear life i.e Tyson or boxes a very very boring and bland decision i.e Lewis vs Tua. If Lewis starts trading then Coetzee knocks him out early as Coeztee can take a punch but Lewis's chin is average at best. But Coetzee can also box as good as Lewis and has a better jab so he can probably beat Lewis at his own game.

Lewis wins probably 5/8 times if he is prepared.

Nice to see you sticking with your man Razor.

Lenny Albert wrote:You guys are funny, whilst I agree with Holmes beating Tyson in a peak versus peak fight you just love to have a go at BrocktonBlockbuster.

Someone puts Coetzee in their top 10 and you're busy having a go at him for disagreeing???

Because of the way Lewis' two loses occured you could make a case for any heavy with a punch beating him but this is who beats who on their best night no?

Lenny, so what? It's a discussion forum isn't it? We are discussing boxing.

Lenny Albert wrote:You guys are funny, whilst I agree with Holmes beating Tyson in a peak versus peak fight you just love to have a go at BrocktonBlockbuster.

Someone puts Coetzee in their top 10 and you're busy having a go at him for disagreeing???

Because of the way Lewis' two loses occured you could make a case for any heavy with a punch beating him but this is who beats who on their best night no?

Yeah, and I disagree with you for disagreeing with us for disagreeing with Brockton!... nuff said eh! 8)

if rex layne was such a gate keeper, how did he beat walcott before he won the title???

Walcott who was past it still outboxed Rocky and even floored him with a hook in the 1st, but Rocky found the one punch to win while Charles was also past it but Rocky struggled with Charles both times failing to Knock him out in their first meeting.

ive said this many times, walcott was at or near his best in the 1st marciano fight and defintley in the tail end of his prime. walcott was a man who had a rough early going boxing many years into obsvurity and didnt reach his full fighting potential until he was 33 yearss old.
- almost all ringsiders thought walcotts preformance in 1st fight thought that was one of walcotts career best preformances.

i might add, a couple montha prior, walcott beat ezzard charles so for you to say he was past his best is insane!

Well first of all we know how poor Rocky's era was in the first place, old Joe Louis, Charles and Walcott who were both past it and Rex Layne who was a 'Gate Keeper' at best.

like i said if rex layne was such a gate keeper, how did he beat walcott before walcott won the heavy title??



walcott was in his prime, and charles was the heavyweight champion during marcianos time so he wasnt past his prime, and when marciano beat charles he beat a damm good version of charles even if he wasnt at his best.

- even old joe louis was a dangerous contender and it took the likes of prime marciano and charles to beat him


- what about roland la starza?? a highly school defensive boxer who looks great on film and is in most top 20 lists of greatest fighters never to win the title.

- what about archie moore and harold johnson?? moore is one of the best heavies never to win title and beat many top big heavyweight contenders.

- a past his prime harold johnson beat a prime eddie machen and many other heavyweight contenders

If Coetzee would of fought Rocky, not only would Coetzee be by far the best heavyweight Rocky has fought

coetzee was not better than walcott, charles(1st marciano fight), harold johnson, and archie moore.

No way in hell does Mariano KO Coetzee early as he showed in the Weaver fight he can take a terrific punch

ur telling me weaver was as good a puncher as marciano??

Coetzee could box or slug and give Marciano problems

if coetzee slugs he will get knocked out. marciano has a suzie Q lined up for coetzee

Coetzee would probably outbox Rocky like he did Dokes and outpoint him....or stop him late, but Rocky could win also but as I said he better be prepared for a long and gruelling fight.

yes because rocky is no better than a drug addicted dokes right?

but Rocky could win also but as I said he better be prepared for a long and gruelling fight

are u kidding me ? ur now questioning rockys conditioning?? that just showed ur true intelligence on that matter

the question is can coetzee keep up with rockys pace? answer no





- coetzee showed against weaver he lacked the stamina, and coetzee had a defintite questionable chin at times.



51-52 marciano slugger- marciano early KO, coetzee slugs with marciano early but the better punching marciano gets the better of it and finished coetzee off with a suzie q

54-55 swarmer marciano- marciano grinds coatzee down breaking him up inside and marcianos relentless attack in championship rounds will knock out the tired coetzee






coatzee was a bigge target and SLOWER and defintley not as good boxing skills as charles, walcott, lastarza ,moore.

if master boxers like walcott, charles, moore couldnt beat marciano, no way coatzee will be able to outbox him



just in case u think marcianos era 51-55 was weak let me show u the list of ten best guys

1. rocky marciano - heavy champion 51-55
2. jersey joe walcott-heavy champion 51-52
3. ezzard charles - heavy champion 51
4. archie moore- top contender one of best heavies never to win title , defeated clarence henry, nino valdez, bob baker, etc
5. harold johnson- top contender, defeated bob satterfield, nino valdez, clarence henry, and when past his prime defeated prime eddie machen.


LOOK AT THAT, UR TELLING ME A HEAVYWEIGHT ERA IS WEAK WHEN IT HAS 5 HALL OF FAMERS AS THE 5 BEST CONTENDERS/CHAMPIONS?


6. roland lastarza- highly school stylish boxer and great
counterpuncher, he was the equivalent of eddie machen or billy miske.
7. rex layne- he had a very short prime but in that short prime he was
34-1 and had knocked out bob satterfield and beat a prime overconfident jerssey joe walcott. marciano and charles KO ruined layne
8. nino valdez- big 6'3 210lb hard hitting slugger who was top contender
9. bob baker - 6'2 225lb hard hitting slugger who was top contender
10. Joe Louis- 6'2 215lb old past his prime great, but louis was still a formidable fighter and dangerous contender despite being past his prime and still had some power left.

then there are plenty of more good contenders that i left out







51-52 marciano slugger - marciano KO 4 coetzee

54-55 marciano swarmer- marciano TKO 12 coetzee




razor, coetzee never beat anyone nearly as good as marciano and lost to guys far less than marciano.

if we compare records we see,

marciano beat jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles(1st fight), archie moore who were all better than gerrie coetzee. and i think coatzee would have loads of trouble with other guys rocky beat like lastarza.


coatzee lost to john tate, mike weaver, renaldo snipes, greg page in his prime. please dont tell me he would beat marciano when greg page and mike weaver knocks coetzee out.

coatzee never beat anyone close to as good as marciano





truth is, were comparing an all time great vs a good heavyweight. this is just like comparing joe frazier to gerrie coetzee, i mean come on!

I think everyone's getting bogged down in wether or not Coetzee could beat Lewis of Marciano. The point is there are many heavywieghts more worthy of the no 10 spot in a head to head list than Gerry Coetzee

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:


51-52 marciano slugger - marciano KO 4 coetzee

54-55 marciano swarmer- marciano TKO 12 coetzee


razor, coetzee never beat anyone nearly as good as marciano and lost to guys far less than marciano.

I don't see how CoAtzee could possibly have lasted 12 rounds with Marciano. CoAtzee had horrible conditioning, and with the pressure a "swarmer" Rocky would put on him, he would not have lasted eight rounds.

Before entering something specific, can you just what you mean by "head- to- head"? It seems to be clear to others, but not to me. Does it mean: who would have beaten who if they had stepped into the ring during their respective peak year?

If so, the bigger modern-era heavyweights would need to be ranked higher than on a historical significance list, as we had discussed elsewhere.

P

pundit wrote:Before entering something specific, can you just what you mean by "head- to- head"? It seems to be clear to others, but not to me. Does it mean: who would have beaten who if they had stepped into the ring during their respective peak year?

If so, the bigger modern-era heavyweights would need to be ranked higher than on a historical significance list, as we had discussed elsewhere.

P

You mean Lewis? Or do you also mean guys like Bowe, Wlad, Vitali, Michael Grant and Goofi Whitaker? Could be a pretty ugly top 10.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:if we compare records we see,

marciano beat jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles(1st fight), archie moore who were all better than gerrie coetzee. and i think coatzee would have loads of trouble with other guys rocky beat like lastarza.


coatzee lost to john tate, mike weaver, renaldo snipes, greg page in his prime. please dont tell me he would beat marciano when greg page and mike weaver knocks coetzee out.

coatzee never beat anyone close to as good as marciano





truth is, were comparing an all time great vs a good heavyweight. this is just like comparing joe frazier to gerrie coetzee, i mean come on!

I'm sorry but as usual you're overrating Rocky Brock. Coetzee may not have ever fought a Marciano but he fought very good fighters such as Thomas, Weaver, Page, Dokes... to say these guys are not as good as Roland Lastarza is just plain wrong. Lastarzas main claim to fame is that he gave Rocky one of his toughest fights... in reality he wasn't anything special as a boxer at all. And Marciano never fought a heavy who punched like Coetzee or for that matter Weaver. Rockys style would be good for Coetzee as he would come stright in at Gerrie who liked to look to land his big punches on the counter... Coetzee was a very underrated boxer with good movement and fast hands and I think his power could well be too much for Rocky...

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:if we compare records we see,

marciano beat jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles(1st fight), archie moore who were all better than gerrie coetzee. and i think coatzee would have loads of trouble with other guys rocky beat like lastarza.


coatzee lost to john tate, mike weaver, renaldo snipes, greg page in his prime. please dont tell me he would beat marciano when greg page and mike weaver knocks coetzee out.

coatzee never beat anyone close to as good as marciano






truth is, were comparing an all time great vs a good heavyweight. this is just like comparing joe frazier to gerrie coetzee, i mean come on!

True Coetzee lost to Weaver and Tate. But the Snipes loss was an alltime low time for boxing - Worst decision Ive sene in history, how can a man be knocked down twice and basically fighting not getting knocked out for the first 7 rounds and still win a decision.

Also Greg Page, Coetzee was in no condtion to fight seeing as he was sedated by his hand operations that he was fighting drugged practically - And he still gave Page a terrific fight. Pinklon Thomas was another robbery where Coetzee did enough to win.

Weaver had nearly as much single shot power as Marciano did. His left hook was way better than Marciano and he had a formibale right hand as well - but it took Weaver 13 rounds to floor an exhastued Coetzee and Coetzee still beat the count. Thats shows a world class chin - probably after Holmes the best chin of the 80's. Marciano hasnt beaten anyone that I think would match up with Coetzee and Coetzee has a hell of a chance in upsetting Rocky.