BoxRec

Loynesy wrote:But where any sympathy with Castillo disappears is that he waited until the moment of the weigh-in to reveal he was 5 llbs over. At some point way before then he would have known he wasn't going to hit 135. To wait until you get on to the weigh-in scales shows disrespect to the fans who had bought flights, tickets etc and Corales - let's not forget he was probably having a crap time trying to make weight.

Shirow wrote:Quote from Castillo after his open workout in Las Vegas 31 May.

“I’ve had no problem managing my weight or with my training for this fight. I feel like I’m right on schedule. I’m scaling back on my running and my day to day workouts because I don’t have much weight to lose at this point.

“No matter who I speak to, they ask me about my weight. It gets bothersome..."

The difference between this and Corrales removing his mouthpiece is that was in the heat of battle where survival instincts can be expected to kick in. I still don't feel i could confidently call it cheating. Castillo's cheating was the buillt on weeks of giving calculated misinformation.
I agree that Castillo realised that he was just never going to get down to weight but hoped that a deal could be reached. He wouldn't get the belt but he'd have a much better chance of winning and this was always going to be his last fight at LWeight anyway, win or lose.

And Glahn you are just a gullible tw@t

viciousmaussa wrote:still, where would castillo's career be if Corrales hadn't pulled that filthy trick?

topper123 wrote:Castillo and his people must have known in the days leading up to the weigh-in that he wasn't going to make the weight, after the last fight they must have been weighing him everyday leading up to this.

I think that they knew he couldn't do the weight but got him to wiegh in trying to force Corrales into taking a fight at a higher weight again.
I feel that Castillo's people have cheated on boxing fans here, imagine if you had paid out to go and watch this fight spending on hotel, tickets and flights, only to get stiffed like this.
Feel sorry for Shirow if he's spent a load getting to watch this farce.

And what happens to Corrales, will he get some money for this? or will he be out of pocket even though this is no fault of his.

mickeybeard wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:still, where would castillo's career be if Corrales hadn't pulled that filthy trick?

Anyone that calls a man reacting on a survival instinct, when his whole body is a mess of adrenaline, a 'filthy trick' has clearly never been hit on the chin and put on his arse. Castillo looked strong at the weigh-in for the 2nd fight, and didn't bother to shift any weight in the 2hrs. Whether he could or couldn't make weight even then, the signs definately point to a calculated decision not to make weight and rely on Corrales to accept the fight at a big disadvantage. That, to me, is far more of a 'dirty trick'.

Looking at Castillo's weigh-in pictures for this fight, it's seems obvious he can't make the weight anymore. He looks a wreck, and he's clearly put himself through hell to get as low as possible. I'm glad they didn't get in the ring because someone would've been hurt. That doesn't mitigate the fact that his camp must've known for a long time he wasn't going to make it, and they've misled the fans in the lead-up to this fight.

Terence wrote:'Varc and Silkov, you guys are talking some nonsense (to be fair though Silkov does have form in this area ) if you think that a fighter who gets put on his arse heavily and late in a blood and guts battle is "cheating" for spitting his shield.

Do you guys know why the law distinguishes between pre-meditated and off the cuff crime? (The hint is in the word pre-meditated.)

Anyone on here who has sparred or fought and been floored heavily will attest that you are not exactly in a position to think calculably, one of you guys said Corrales was 1-2 punches away from being KO'd, in that case do you seriously mean to advocate that he was compass mentis when he spat his shield? No.

There is a difference between a fighter, in a fight, going down and spitting his shield and a fighter twice not making weight and using the fighting heart of his foe to his advantage. Corrales bought himself time but would probably have KO'd Castillo anyway, do you seriously think in that 15 or so seconds he completely recovered his senses and reached a level of equilibrium similar to the one he had before the knock-down? Again you are mistaken. Corrales showed intelligence, the kind of ring sense Castillo lacked in standing stock still with no guard whilst another man pounded him into submission, Castillo could have taken a count but lacked the ring generalmanship to do so, I have brought this point up before and no one addressed it.

As for this latest stunt, why did Castillo go through with the charade, and as it turns out the humiliation, of the weigh in? You could say that his camp, and Castillo himself, are a bunch of spakkers who did not weigh him in the final week and thought he was at the weight. Yes right. Or you could say that he knew before going on the scales that he was over and thought Corrales would take a fight anyway thereby allowing Castillo to replenish and come in around 160lbs. Stop crying about how weak Castillo looked, all fighters look dead on the scales, I bet he'd have been much improved come fight night. If he could not make weight and expected the fight to be off he'd have notified everyone days in advance to let them get a new fighter in, camp Castillo gambled on the heart of Corrales and this time wiser heads prevailed. Castillo is a cheat and the difference, if you can even draw the analogy, is that Corrales went down heavily and spat his shield in the heat of the moment, Castillo has spent months in two fights deliberately and cynically setting his foe up for a serious disadvantage. He is a pre-meditated cheat. Unless you'd care to put forward, the as yet unheard, theory that Castillo went to bed at 135lbs and woke up 5lbs heavier (maybe Corrales came iin during the night and dropped gumshield shaped pasta into his open mouth.)

On the other hand do you think Diego had it easy making weight? Do you think he walked into training camp did three rounds of skipping, had a shit and then said: "Blow me I'm down to 135lbs already!" No. He worked his weight down and made the sacrifice. Castillo signed a contract to fight at 135lbs and failed to do so, we can blame boxing, we can blame his team and we can blame the suits but someone had to pick up a pen and sign that contract and it was Castillo, lets not sit around weeping about how hard done by he is.

Terence wrote:'Varc and Silkov, you guys are talking some nonsense (to be fair though Silkov does have form in this area ) if you think that a fighter who gets put on his arse heavily and late in a blood and guts battle is "cheating" for spitting his shield.

Do you guys know why the law distinguishes between pre-meditated and off the cuff crime? (The hint is in the word pre-meditated.)

Anyone on here who has sparred or fought and been floored heavily will attest that you are not exactly in a position to think calculably, one of you guys said Corrales was 1-2 punches away from being KO'd, in that case do you seriously mean to advocate that he was compass mentis when he spat his shield? No.

There is a difference between a fighter, in a fight, going down and spitting his shield and a fighter twice not making weight and using the fighting heart of his foe to his advantage. Corrales bought himself time but would probably have KO'd Castillo anyway, do you seriously think in that 15 or so seconds he completely recovered his senses and reached a level of equilibrium similar to the one he had before the knock-down? Again you are mistaken. Corrales showed intelligence, the kind of ring sense Castillo lacked in standing stock still with no guard whilst another man pounded him into submission, Castillo could have taken a count but lacked the ring generalmanship to do so, I have brought this point up before and no one addressed it.

As for this latest stunt, why did Castillo go through with the charade, and as it turns out the humiliation, of the weigh in? You could say that his camp, and Castillo himself, are a bunch of spakkers who did not weigh him in the final week and thought he was at the weight. Yes right. Or you could say that he knew before going on the scales that he was over and thought Corrales would take a fight anyway thereby allowing Castillo to replenish and come in around 160lbs. Stop crying about how weak Castillo looked, all fighters look dead on the scales, I bet he'd have been much improved come fight night. If he could not make weight and expected the fight to be off he'd have notified everyone days in advance to let them get a new fighter in, camp Castillo gambled on the heart of Corrales and this time wiser heads prevailed. Castillo is a cheat and the difference, if you can even draw the analogy, is that Corrales went down heavily and spat his shield in the heat of the moment, Castillo has spent months in two fights deliberately and cynically setting his foe up for a serious disadvantage. He is a pre-meditated cheat. Unless you'd care to put forward, the as yet unheard, theory that Castillo went to bed at 135lbs and woke up 5lbs heavier (maybe Corrales came iin during the night and dropped gumshield shaped pasta into his open mouth.)

On the other hand do you think Diego had it easy making weight? Do you think he walked into training camp did three rounds of skipping, had a shit and then said: "Blow me I'm down to 135lbs already!" No. He worked his weight down and made the sacrifice. Castillo signed a contract to fight at 135lbs and failed to do so, we can blame boxing, we can blame his team and we can blame the suits but someone had to pick up a pen and sign that contract and it was Castillo, lets not sit around weeping about how hard done by he is.

Terence wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:

Terence wrote:'Varc and Silkov, you guys are talking some nonsense (to be fair though Silkov does have form in this area ) if you think that a fighter who gets put on his arse heavily and late in a blood and guts battle is "cheating" for spitting his shield.

Do you guys know why the law distinguishes between pre-meditated and off the cuff crime? (The hint is in the word pre-meditated.)

Anyone on here who has sparred or fought and been floored heavily will attest that you are not exactly in a position to think calculably, one of you guys said Corrales was 1-2 punches away from being KO'd, in that case do you seriously mean to advocate that he was compass mentis when he spat his shield? No.

There is a difference between a fighter, in a fight, going down and spitting his shield and a fighter twice not making weight and using the fighting heart of his foe to his advantage. Corrales bought himself time but would probably have KO'd Castillo anyway, do you seriously think in that 15 or so seconds he completely recovered his senses and reached a level of equilibrium similar to the one he had before the knock-down? Again you are mistaken. Corrales showed intelligence, the kind of ring sense Castillo lacked in standing stock still with no guard whilst another man pounded him into submission, Castillo could have taken a count but lacked the ring generalmanship to do so, I have brought this point up before and no one addressed it.

As for this latest stunt, why did Castillo go through with the charade, and as it turns out the humiliation, of the weigh in? You could say that his camp, and Castillo himself, are a bunch of spakkers who did not weigh him in the final week and thought he was at the weight. Yes right. Or you could say that he knew before going on the scales that he was over and thought Corrales would take a fight anyway thereby allowing Castillo to replenish and come in around 160lbs. Stop crying about how weak Castillo looked, all fighters look dead on the scales, I bet he'd have been much improved come fight night. If he could not make weight and expected the fight to be off he'd have notified everyone days in advance to let them get a new fighter in, camp Castillo gambled on the heart of Corrales and this time wiser heads prevailed. Castillo is a cheat and the difference, if you can even draw the analogy, is that Corrales went down heavily and spat his shield in the heat of the moment, Castillo has spent months in two fights deliberately and cynically setting his foe up for a serious disadvantage. He is a pre-meditated cheat. Unless you'd care to put forward, the as yet unheard, theory that Castillo went to bed at 135lbs and woke up 5lbs heavier (maybe Corrales came iin during the night and dropped gumshield shaped pasta into his open mouth.)

On the other hand do you think Diego had it easy making weight? Do you think he walked into training camp did three rounds of skipping, had a shit and then said: "Blow me I'm down to 135lbs already!" No. He worked his weight down and made the sacrifice. Castillo signed a contract to fight at 135lbs and failed to do so, we can blame boxing, we can blame his team and we can blame the suits but someone had to pick up a pen and sign that contract and it was Castillo, lets not sit around weeping about how hard done by he is.

i don't know, ppl don't seem to notify in advance when things look bad. look at toney, being forcefed whatever it was by his doctors, knowing he was on whatever he was on. he goes into the ruiz fight, he lands some of the biggest right hands i've ever seen him throw, apparently does some real damage to ruiz' face, batters his body red raw. ruiz is trying to sue him now. the thing is, you always stick up for toney, whether it be the very debatable decisions he won in the early 90s or the steroids incident. yet you're vehement toward castillo, with all your 'spakker' or 'i hope he gets smeg knocked out' talk

did you want Corrales to KTFO a drained Castillo? however much he might've been able to cram on his fame, he would've been weak to the core and looking at that weihg in, he wasn't fit to fight


imo this series has provoked a lot of controversy, bitterness, pissed off ppl, but both guys have played their part

whatever we thing, whoever's side we take, we should hope for Corrales-Juan Diaz and Castillo vs light welters. Plenty of good fights for both guys.

How can I be stating I want Corrales to KO a weight-drained Castillowhen I made the statement after the fight had been pulled 'Maussa?

I defend Toney for debateable decisions because they are debateable decisions. You probably would have been best served using the Dell'Aquilla fight but guess what? I have an answer for that

The Ruiz example is a facil analogy and not worth answering, that was a one-off incident. Castillo has been twice caught with his pants down.

You chaps continue defend the indefensible, it would explain your progress thus far.

Terence wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:

Terence wrote: How can I be stating I want Corrales to KO a weight-drained Castillowhen I made the statement after the fight had been pulled 'Maussa?

I defend Toney for debateable decisions because they are debateable decisions. You probably would have been best served using the Dell'Aquilla fight but guess what? I have an answer for that

The Ruiz example is a facil analogy and not worth answering, that was a one-off incident. Castillo has been twice caught with his pants down.

You chaps continue defend the indefensible, it would explain your progress thus far.

a facile analogy? you pompous wank_er. steroids not cheating? definitely not, especially when your Dr sneaks it in your system, haha. how is toney defensible then? probably because a) the fight went ahead and b) it was a stinker anyhow and c) nobody can stand ruiz and it's nice to see him get ambarrassed. how about the damage to Ruiz, he says he suffered some considerable facial damage. daft hypocrite


Castillo going out with the girls, that's actually quite amusing. now we know why. if he fights at 140 he can go with the ladies

Pompous wanker? Yer ignorant gimp I don't bash one out whilst reading "The Trial" you know. Toney got stripped off his title and fined plus a ban, then when he did offer to fight Ruiz again John pleaded with the WBA to maintain a ban on Toney and tried to sue him. Castillo has pulled the same stunt twice but won't get those sanctions imposed on him.

The other irony is that Toney lost a lot of weight to fight Roy Jones and yet he is being used as a counter-example to clear Castillo. If Castillo had taken a leaf out of Toney's book we'd not be on this strand.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The substance in the bottle was supposed to be sugar water, which is banned because it gives fighters a sudden rush of energy in the ring.

Terence wrote:Jones was caught and punished and there is still some element of controversy over the matter. Castillo has tried to cheat in back-to-back fights and both times has set a dangerous precedent.

My position on Castillo has been consistent from the inception of this strand. It is nothing to do with Roy Jones or James Toney. I am also a big fan of Aaron Pryor, care to bring up the mystery of the bottle of mint schnaps? I like Sonny Liston also, care to bring up the question of illegal substances in some of his wins? No. This is a singular strand on a specific incident that has no real precedent at this level.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think the idea is, that if one fighter has it, and the other doesn't, then it gives them an unfair advantage. I can see no reason why in boxing though the corners shouldn't be able to give their fighters isotonic drinks.

I guess part of the reason though, is that it becomes a lot harder to monitor if you start allowing anything other than water. If you ban everything EXCEPT water, it's pretty easy to detect that something isn't just water. However, if you allow isotonic drinks, you then need proper testing equipment to watch what else went in there, as drug testing is far from mandatory in boxing.

Andy Mac wrote:2 questions for Terence.
When was Jones caught and punished?

Howcome in your haste to label Castillo a cheat you only spew out selective remarks regarding the last fight?
To enable the fight to go ahead the last time it was agreed that Castillo would weigh no more than 147 at fight time. I believe if you bother to check on these things you will see that Corrales in fact was the heavier of the 2 on the night. It would appear that regardless of your opinions on people on their arses having lucid thoughts or whatever, J.L.C. must have had his own thoughts on the matter and maybe thats why he nearly took the heavier mans f,ucking head off.