Page 4 of 5
Posted: 22 Aug 2006, 15:17
by pundit
lvlarc_uk wrote:I'm glad at least someone has bothered to get the Bika-Beyer fight before commenting on how shit this fight is.
If you think this fight is a total farce, then who would of you preferred to see Calzaghe fighting in October, providing they are available? There are only a few better names and this way he's keeping busy hopefully ready for the unification. The timing is great with Beyer-Kessler fighting on the same date with both having equal time to prepare for the unification.
Yeah, Calzaghe will prove that he can beat the man whose fight with Beyer was stopped due to an unintended headbutt. And apart from this Calzaghe has nothing to prove anyway.
So THIS is the only fight that has still been missing on Calzaghe's recrod. Great, great move. Simply great. No, pure genius.
Posted: 22 Aug 2006, 15:26
by TerribleTerry
Inexcusibly poor offering at a crucial, late stage in Calzaghe's career.
Truly rubbish. FW/SN and JC are all letting themselves down badly with this one.
The ITV buyer should have stood firm and rejected this bile.
Posted: 22 Aug 2006, 16:19
by Autobarn
pundit wrote:lvlarc_uk wrote:I'm glad at least someone has bothered to get the Bika-Beyer fight before commenting on how shit this fight is.
If you think this fight is a total farce, then who would of you preferred to see Calzaghe fighting in October, providing they are available? There are only a few better names and this way he's keeping busy hopefully ready for the unification. The timing is great with Beyer-Kessler fighting on the same date with both having equal time to prepare for the unification.
Yeah, Calzaghe will prove that he can beat the man whose fight with Beyer was stopped due to an unintended headbutt. And apart from this Calzaghe has nothing to prove anyway.
So THIS is the only fight that has still been missing on Calzaghe's recrod. Great, great move. Simply great. No, pure genius.
Bika was doing very well against Beyer. Calzaghe-Bika is not a great match, but surely you don't think it will be a farce fight like Ashira & Salem. It might not be a huge stretch to say that a man who was more than holding his own with the quality Beyer, might be competitive with Calzaghe.
Anyhow, he represents a tougher test than the Calzaghe mandatories.
Posted: 22 Aug 2006, 16:23
by pundit
viciousmaussa wrote:pundit wrote:lvlarc_uk wrote:I'm glad at least someone has bothered to get the Bika-Beyer fight before commenting on how shit this fight is.
If you think this fight is a total farce, then who would of you preferred to see Calzaghe fighting in October, providing they are available? There are only a few better names and this way he's keeping busy hopefully ready for the unification. The timing is great with Beyer-Kessler fighting on the same date with both having equal time to prepare for the unification.
Yeah, Calzaghe will prove that he can beat the man whose fight with Beyer was stopped due to an unintended headbutt. And apart from this Calzaghe has nothing to prove anyway.
So THIS is the only fight that has still been missing on Calzaghe's recrod. Great, great move. Simply great. No, pure genius.
Bika was doing very well against Beyer. Calzaghe-Bika is not a great match, but surely you don't think it will be a farce fight like Ashira & Salem. It might not be a huge stretch to say that a man who was more than holding his own with the quality Beyer, might be competitive with Calzaghe.
Anyhow, he represents a tougher test than the Calzaghe mandatories.
Let's be serious for one moment. How much of a meal do you want to make of a fight that lasted a full four rounds (with Bika behind on one scorecard and the the other even)? And - EVER heard that Beyer is a famously slow starter?
But anyway, Bika is a great, great match for Calzaghe, as Ashira and Salem were great matchups. Warren is ALWAYS searching and finding the most meaningful and strongest possible opponent for Calzaghe.
Posted: 22 Aug 2006, 16:34
by Autobarn
pundit wrote:viciousmaussa wrote:pundit wrote:
Yeah, Calzaghe will prove that he can beat the man whose fight with Beyer was stopped due to an unintended headbutt. And apart from this Calzaghe has nothing to prove anyway.
So THIS is the only fight that has still been missing on Calzaghe's recrod. Great, great move. Simply great. No, pure genius.
Bika was doing very well against Beyer. Calzaghe-Bika is not a great match, but surely you don't think it will be a farce fight like Ashira & Salem. It might not be a huge stretch to say that a man who was more than holding his own with the quality Beyer, might be competitive with Calzaghe.
Anyhow, he represents a tougher test than the Calzaghe mandatories.
Let's be serious for one moment. How much of a meal do you want to make of a fight that lasted a full four rounds (with Bika behind on one scorecard and the the other even)? And - EVER heard that Beyer is a famously slow starter?
But anyway, Bika is a great, great match for Calzaghe, as Ashira and Salem were great matchups. Warren is ALWAYS searching and finding the most meaningful and strongest possible opponent for Calzaghe.
Beyer is a slow starter. But you ridicule Bika unfairly to get at Calzaghe. & you ignore the good things he did vs a world class technician. How many ppl have stuck a pole like jab in Beyer's face? How many have completely read Beyer's very fast straight left, making him totaly miss? Not many.
That was a very confident and very promising performance. Sure, 4 rounds can only tell you so much. if I was a boxing promoter I would have seen much to be encouraged by, that could be built on.
How much do you think that being in with beyer will have lifted Bika? Are you so certain that had the clash not happened, that Beyer would have solved him and boxed his head off? Bika's now a former world title challenger, & he didn't embarrass himself like Colajanni. Ppl act like he's Colajanni level!
Posted: 22 Aug 2006, 17:18
by leforge
What time will this fight take place? Is it a 2am job?
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 01:26
by Axe
viciousmaussa wrote:pundit wrote:viciousmaussa wrote:Bika was doing very well against Beyer. Calzaghe-Bika is not a great match, but surely you don't think it will be a farce fight like Ashira & Salem. It might not be a huge stretch to say that a man who was more than holding his own with the quality Beyer, might be competitive with Calzaghe.
Anyhow, he represents a tougher test than the Calzaghe mandatories.
Let's be serious for one moment. How much of a meal do you want to make of a fight that lasted a full four rounds (with Bika behind on one scorecard and the the other even)? And - EVER heard that Beyer is a famously slow starter?
But anyway, Bika is a great, great match for Calzaghe, as Ashira and Salem were great matchups. Warren is ALWAYS searching and finding the most meaningful and strongest possible opponent for Calzaghe.
Beyer is a slow starter. But you ridicule Bika unfairly to get at Calzaghe. & you ignore the good things he did vs a world class technician. How many ppl have stuck a pole like jab in Beyer's face? How many have completely read Beyer's very fast straight left, making him totaly miss? Not many.
That was a very confident and very promising performance. Sure, 4 rounds can only tell you so much. if I was a boxing promoter I would have seen much to be encouraged by, that could be built on.
How much do you think that being in with beyer will have lifted Bika? Are you so certain that had the clash not happened, that Beyer would have solved him and boxed his head off? Bika's now a former world title challenger, & he didn't embarrass himself like Colajanni. Ppl act like he's Colajanni level!
Vicious watches the fights, so he knows what he's talking about. I recall people on the general forum admitting that Beyer was struggling mightily with Bika, even when he tried to crank it up a notch and put some gloves on the man.
Still, I figure Calzaghe to have a significant strength advantage in this one, as Bika is a natural middleweight. Beyer is small and couldnt really exploit that, but JC is a sizeable 168 lber and that alone should signal trouble for Sakio.
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 05:38
by Autobarn
Yeah, I watched it after god know how many months at the bottom of my DVD pile. but when I was compiling it with other Beyer fights, I figured WTF it's only 4 rds. Perhaps, thinking it would not be a good fight, I have overreacted a little.
There's two ways of looking at Bika
1) it was only 4 rds, so what, that proves nothing
2) for 4 rounds he showed he knows how to a) make a southpaw miss badly, b) land clean jabs on a southpaw, c) that he is relaxed and 'happy' on a big stage
Neither detractors nor myself will completely know until October.
Pundit - you're right about the Beyer slow starts. i can't deny that. But Beyer does start fast sometimes, and he started very fast vs Bika. Beyer was in a technical crisis as he was facing a taller man with a bigger reach who knows HOW to use his reach. As such, he had to be urgent, hence the snappy straight lefts from the start that he was contantly trying to catch Bika off guard with.
There have been some real good Africans based in Oz. Jackson Asiku will go places if ppl will dare fight him. Gairy St Clair just won a 130 world title belt. Bika held his own & then some in a WBC title fight...
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 07:40
by Max Molyneux
About being a natural middleweight. Does he dehydrate to make it, because if so that doesn't make him a natural middleweight. As for Soliman, no way would he be a natural Light Middle, he's fought as high as Super Middle and most thought he was robbed against Mundine.
If Bika's 6ft then he's big for a Middle.
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 07:52
by jamesmcdonnell
Riddick Blowe wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes perception is the important thing. Who has heard of this fellow outside of 'boxing internet anoraks?' I've not been following the sport too vigorously of late due to other factors, but the fact I've never even heard of this dude says it all. If I've never heard of him, what hope is there for the average ITV viewer?
has the average ITV viewer heard of kessler? beyer? hell the average ITV viewer probably hasn't heard of clinton woods.
Goz wrote:I'll be keeping an eye on the Calzaghe W12 price at the bookies.
People seem to have missed the most important post of the thread. Goz is right, some good money could be made here on the pts win. I see calzaghe breaking his breadstick hands again.
The difference is, that Woods, Kessler and Beyer all are genuine belt holders, so all these fights could be sold as either unifications or a second weight title fight respectively. Rather different than selling a fight to the public where the best that can be said is the spurious line 'Bika is a world class operator who drew with champion Markus Beyer.'
I'm sure that Clinton Woods is known to the public, though hardly a national sporting icon.
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 10:52
by Wolfman91
OK there's a lot of hate going on here and I can understand peoples frustrations with this but who in god's name should he fight instead?
With Beyer v Kessler and Woods v Johnson there’s little else around for him?
I know Winky used to fight everyones in their back yard back in the day but there’s no way Winky comes to the UK for the fight now that he’s P4P number 1.
So who else?
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 11:50
by glahn
Some names that have been mentioned: Mundine, Green, Andrade, Froch, Markussen...
Also, I think a lot of people see Steiglitz as a more credible opponent because at least he's a mandatory.
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 11:58
by Wolfman91
glahn wrote:Some names that have been mentioned: Mundine, Green, Andrade, Froch, Markussen...
Also, I think a lot of people see Steiglitz as a more credible opponent because at least he's a mandatory.
Mundine will get a shot at the WBA title as the winner of the Beyer/Kessler fight will be named Super champ so he's waiting for that, Andrade is the WBC mandatory and is waiting to see what the WBC do regarding their title.
Which Green??? Dont both Alan and Danny have fights arranged already?
Froch would have been a good choice.
Steiglitz and Markussen are mandatories and will probably be getting paid for stepping aside so I'm sure they're happy. They rather fight for the vacant title anyway I pressume.
Once Clazaghe has moved up though I see a good future at SM a lot of unbeatens here with Bute, Lakin added to those mentioned above.
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 12:51
by pasty_spud
once he's moved up??????????
funniest thing i've heard in a while
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 13:07
by jamesmcdonnell
Wolfman91 wrote:OK there's a lot of hate going on here and I can understand peoples frustrations with this but who in god's name should he fight instead?
With Beyer v Kessler and Woods v Johnson there’s little else around for him?
I know Winky used to fight everyones in their back yard back in the day but there’s no way Winky comes to the UK for the fight now that he’s P4P number 1.
So who else?
who said Winky is P4P top dog?
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 16:27
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:About being a natural middleweight. Does he dehydrate to make it, because if so that doesn't make him a natural middleweight. As for Soliman, no way would he be a natural Light Middle, he's fought as high as Super Middle and most thought he was robbed against Mundine.
If Bika's 6ft then he's big for a Middle.
Bika is an all-rounder. He can fight at light-middleweight, at middleweight, at super-middleweight; he could even fight at heavyweight.
So notice: Joe is taking on a potential heavyweight!!!
A BIG step up indeed
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 21:21
by Axe
Max Molyneux wrote:If Bika's 6ft then he's big for a Middle.
I guess at 6'1 Vernon Forrest is big for a middle too.
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 21:28
by Sweet P
Calzaghe Vs Bika is a great matchup, Bika is unknown out side of Australia but will be a hard fight for Calzaghe, Bika has a really good jab and is always very relaxed in the ring. I see Calzaghe winning but the fight will be competitive from round 1 through to 12.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 03:07
by LFC
Max Molyneux wrote:About being a natural middleweight. Does he dehydrate to make it, because if so that doesn't make him a natural middleweight. As for Soliman, no way would he be a natural Light Middle, he's fought as high as Super Middle and most thought he was robbed against Mundine.
If Bika's 6ft then he's big for a Middle.
You can't put it like that, it depends on how your build.
Bika weighed in at 156, 2 pounds from the LMW-limit, only 9 months ago. He looked like a small Middle against Beyer, and has no buisness fighting at Super Middle.
And btw, have you actually seen the Soliman-Mundine fight? Close fight? Yes. Robbery? No way.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 04:43
by Autobarn
Ben Keilty wrote:Calzaghe Vs Bika is a great matchup, Bika is unknown out side of Australia but will be a hard fight for Calzaghe, Bika has a really good jab and is always very relaxed in the ring. I see Calzaghe winning but the fight will be competitive from round 1 through to 12.
someone who agrees with me! I've only seen Bika-Beyer. How has Bika looked against lesser foes?
I noticed Bika has a win over John Wayne Parr, the Thai Boxing great (obviously he wasn't agreat boxer)
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 04:46
by Wolfman91
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Wolfman91 wrote:OK there's a lot of hate going on here and I can understand peoples frustrations with this but who in god's name should he fight instead?
With Beyer v Kessler and Woods v Johnson there’s little else around for him?
I know Winky used to fight everyones in their back yard back in the day but there’s no way Winky comes to the UK for the fight now that he’s P4P number 1.
So who else?
who said Winky is P4P top dog?
Me and IMO he is.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 05:05
by Autobarn
LFC wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:About being a natural middleweight. Does he dehydrate to make it, because if so that doesn't make him a natural middleweight. As for Soliman, no way would he be a natural Light Middle, he's fought as high as Super Middle and most thought he was robbed against Mundine.
If Bika's 6ft then he's big for a Middle.
You can't put it like that, it depends on how your build.
Bika weighed in at 156, 2 pounds from the LMW-limit, only 9 months ago. He looked like a small Middle against Beyer, and has no buisness fighting at Super Middle.
And btw, have you actually seen the Soliman-Mundine fight? Close fight? Yes. Robbery? No way.
he looked bigger than beyer. tall wasp waisted type with most of the meat on his arms. to me , he looks a bit bigger than jermain taylor & taylor is a similarly framed guy who's growing out of middle
you never know with the scales in fighting abroad. maybe they made the weights appear less, in case the home fighter was over the weight & couldn't get down. 156 looks like a crazy weight for him to be at. he's slim at 168 so my guess is he'd be skeletal at middle or less.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 05:10
by jamesmcdonnell
Wolfman91 wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Wolfman91 wrote:OK there's a lot of hate going on here and I can understand peoples frustrations with this but who in god's name should he fight instead?
With Beyer v Kessler and Woods v Johnson there’s little else around for him?
I know Winky used to fight everyones in their back yard back in the day but there’s no way Winky comes to the UK for the fight now that he’s P4P number 1.
So who else?
who said Winky is P4P top dog?
Oh well nobody important then....only kidding mate. Don't agree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong.
Me and IMO he is.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 05:18
by Autobarn
If Winky had gutted out the 12th rd versus Taylor & got the nod, he would deserve it. But he didn't & his gibberish rappa tirade should ban him from p4p #1 consideration.
Winky is a different kind of fighter to the p4p best we are used to i.e. long reigning (Hopkins), multi weight champ/amazing speed (Jones. Mayfeather). As he primed very late. He beats on better knowns who were declining a tad. But then holds his own vs taylor, so he is somewhere near the top.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 05:20
by Wolfman91
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Wolfman91 wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:
who said Winky is P4P top dog?
Me and IMO he is.
Oh well nobody important then....only kidding mate. Don't agree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong.
Fair enough then I guess