THEBUTCH wrote:It's ridiculous to claim the judges were bought because Barrera lost clearly in they eyes of many. Even if this was close fight, which it was not, that would still be dodgy statement to make.
Your scoring is way off. MAB wasn't any more effective in the 12th than JMM. As for the earlier rounds, some were close enough for argument, but the judges and several posters on here disagree with your interpretation.
The excuses just keep flooding in !
Really because around 40% of fans scored for MAB, bit odd for a none close fight. Did you watch the DHOP fight?
No one else can post there scorecards, I HAVE TO WONDER IF EVERYONE WHOS SAYING JMM WON EVEN SCORED THE FIGHT (other than Maussa who I know scores fights), whats your scorecard?
mad gear wrote:Fair enough then, JMM wasn't uniifed, but he was clearly a force after hammering Medina. And they were major champions at a close enough proximity to e considered equals, in a manner of speaking..
Marquez only had his first ever belt the IBF belt for 9 months before Barrera lost to Pacman - hardly enough time to claim Barrera was ducking him. Morales was struggling with weight and in the process of moving up when Marquez won his first belt.
Face it Marquez was never really ducked he just didn't position himself properly to get a big fight. He was offered big fights by Hamed and Pacman and turned them down. He should have jumped at both
I cant understand you scorecard if I was only going to give MAB 2 rounds it would be 8 and 9, those were his most dominant rounds and he won them without question. Allot bigger rounds for MAB than the 1s you had him drawing. Allot of drawn rounds, TBH I don't score drawn rounds if I was going too I could have scored 6rounds level
Last edited by Phenomenal-Nutrition on 20 Mar 2007, 12:29, edited 1 time in total.
I can comprise on a few of the rounds and agree some were very close, I just had JMM doing enough all night.
Equally, you card is a complete mystery to me. Barrera came off second best in the majority of the 12 rounds, so to lose by a 3/4 points I can reason, but any less, or indeed losing is just nonsense. Even the Vegas judges couldn't balls this one up.
Judging can be subjective, for instance I'll score a MAB left hook over the 1-2s Marquez threw which I felt had little on them]
I think allot of people scored punches that Marquez actually didnt land. Barrera was slipping and sliding an awful lot of punches
HOWEVER If you look at the punch stats barrera and Marquez landed near identicle numbers of shots. Now are you saying Marquez lands twice as hard because he certainly didn't outland MAB? So it was a very close fight.
Alternatively, I was impressed with how JMM ducked under MAB's punches on occasions. The surprise lead shots delivered from JMM that caught MAB caught the eye too.
We saw different fights. Completely different, because it wasn't a close bout at all IMO.
This fight Marquez V Barrera coupled with the other major fight that night...Mormeck-Bell and the previous weeks Marquez-Vazquez all prove a simple equation.
Best fighter + Best fighter = great fight
Poor overmatched opponent + WBU title = mismatch
When the best fight the best we get the best fights, take note promoters, governing bodies etc it's not rocket science
Terence wrote:My understanding of the fight so far is.
Madgear = 'Maussa.
Correct?
yeah, i changed it, thought i should think up a good username. Ever play that old Capcom beat 'em up, FINAL FIGHT? It's the Mad Gear Gang that kidnap Mayor Haggar's daughter.
steve689 wrote:This fight Marquez V Barrera coupled with the other major fight that night...Mormeck-Bell and the previous weeks Marquez-Vazquez all prove a simple equation.
Best fighter + Best fighter = great fight
Poor overmatched opponent + WBU title = mismatch
When the best fight the best we get the best fights, take note promoters, governing bodies etc it's not rocket science
Absolutely, occasionally you don't get a fight of the year contender (like DLH vs Trinidad or more recently Casamayor vs Corrales III) but they are still intriguing edge of the seat stuff
p.s. I just had to phone my other half to read those out to me.
Shocking, you have given Marquez the benefit in almost every close round, two 10-10 scores in rounds which the edge should have gone to Barrera, rounds 2 and 5. In afew of those other rounds Barrera controlled almost the first two minutes with his jab, movement and countering yet people seem to prefer the aggression of Marquez near the end of each round.
Most agree that Barrera took 3 of the first 5 and took round 8 too. What did Marquez do exactly to win that round? I thought Barrera nicked rounds 10 and 12 also.
not me mate, I thought marquez too 3,4, and 5. barrera took 2 and round 1 i scored to marquez though i could see how it coould be scored even. so that is 4 out of the first 5 to marquez bbarrera takes 6,8 and possibly 12. marques definitely 7,9,10,11.
I thought rounds 1 and 12 were the two closest rounds.
Regarding that earlier Barrera beats Marquez. First off boxing just doesn't work that way. Until Pac was unavailable, JMM was a high risk, little rewad opponent. Thanks to some of JMM's own mistakes and some of JMM's own brilliance.
Secondly, I can't help but think ppl are conjuring a perfect fantasy Barrera - who didn't exist for very long. Certainly, Barrera showed he could become a terrific stylist vs J Jones (rematch) and then he punished Naz for his many mistakes. Then he miscalculated his boxing v Morales - he thought he could stay outside, lure Erik in, and was a tad luky to win as he was outreached and out of range himself.
The master technician Barrera is the guy who turned up for Tapia and Kelley, & maybe Ayala and Morales 3. This is where he had a balance of beautiful boxing, punishing attacks and a decent engine. 4 fights.
He'd probably peaked before the Pac fight and it's a shame he wasn't in the best shape.
Thirdly, Marquez always gives Barrera his toughest technical test, which rules out this mythical Barrera clinic or near whitwash that I keep hearing about. And let's look at the best Marquez. The one that can blend backfoot and front foot more seamlessly. Way I see it, his excellent aggressive boxing really started with John last year who was very lucky, and his aggression further honed vs the southpaw sluggers.
Marquez needed these fights to help him balance his boxing, just as Jr Jones pointed out MAB's weaknesses to him and just as Naz gave him enough counters to bring out the master boxer in him.
He's got criticised for taking more, but he lands better nowadays and doesn't go into a shell. JMM's hands are still very fast. Sits on his punches more. No, he isn't in his physical prime but like MAB of 2002/3 in particular, he's found his most clear identity as a boxer.
The best of each man - physically and technically - have come at 2 different times for each man.
Moving on how do we see Marquez-Pac 2 going (even though it probably won't come off in the next 12months). I had Marquez winning the first by 1 point which is remarkable after the 10-6 round, he really beat Pac up in the middle rounds.
If the rematch had been within 2years I think Marquez would have won wide on the cards and maybe stopped Pacman. But at this stage looking slower and more hitable as Pac looks in his absolute prime I think Pac may KO him.
I'm going against the grain and predicting that the next elite name beats Pac.
WBC says Marquez MUST fight Pac next.
Pac's private life is chaos and it will take his edge off him. When an aggressive fighter - who needs to physically dominate - loses something, he loses in the best company.
Pac only became "invincible" when Roach taught him to use the right hook, with the left hand. In fact, I don't even know if Manny thought he could beat Morales until EM dropped his guard and turned southpaw, end of 1st fight.
A classy boxer, then, needs to negate a right hook-left hand. I actualy thought Barrera would be able to get in the right range to badly frustrate Pac. Remember how Barrera negated Junior Jones' right hand in the rematch, coming close to winning?
Valero-Pacquiao is what i want to see, Valero may too wild and open but his stamina is deceptively good. Still throwing heavy bombs in the 10th against Mosquera, he is some specimen that fellow.
I think Marquez beats Pac at Super Feather - although cautious with the pick because Pac is a better fighter than he was vs Marquez where I think he let the Barrera win get to his head a little.
However, I think Pacquaio destroys Guzman who I aint overly impressed with. Good no doubt, but I think would get beaten by any of the top #3 at Super Feather pretty easily.
stujones wrote:I think Marquez beats Pac at Super Feather - although cautious with the pick because Pac is a better fighter than he was vs Marquez where I think he let the Barrera win get to his head a little.
However, I think Pacquaio destroys Guzman who I aint overly impressed with. Good no doubt, but I think would get beaten by any of the top #3 at Super Feather pretty easily.
I've really gone off Guzman. He throws a few good punches, then is knackered on the ropes. Much prefer Soto as a fighter with an elite future at 130.
Valero has some pretty impressive handspeed - was brutal vs the last guy, Lozada.
I agree about Maquez beating Pac at 130. I just don't think Marque will be there to get hit by right hooks and straight lefts. He is open for a left, but if he finds that range where he can hit Pac & where Pac can't really hurt him, it could be Pac stranded on the outside eating counters all night - again.
