BoxRec

oliverfennell wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:we are all suffering because of it :(

Even Anthony Small's musical preferences!

You cant argue, its a mess! The fact this thread exists is a sad testament to the situation...

Wouldn't even have been an issue six years ago.

Carlos, it is your reasoning that leads to all this. Without knowing anything about the song itself you want to censor it all because you are sure it, or one that sounds like it, appears on Internet broadcasts asking for UK soldiers to be killed. What are you watching them for anyway?

What do you mean, 'what am I watching them for' so what you are trying to imply is that I'm complicit somewhat in what happens in the videos by viewing them? Well if this is the case, then every news piece that the viewer watches, he or she is complicit because the viewer has took part in watching them, are you serious?

I take it you are pulling the plug on the Internet as part of your stance. In that case I don't expect a reply

.

Stupid and pointless but not as classic as your 'Russian terrorism in London' comparison to what is happenin in Iraq. Can you please explain what the relevance of this 'non-point' to the argument? ta!

As for the mixed-race abuse stuff, what did I say about making these things emotive? Your life story is nice but if you have to drag it into this strand then your 'argument' (I have yet to see one) is dead on its arse.

Because Terence, you have implied that I'm racist without having any background on me, seeing as you are inferring such a chrarge needs to be put straight by my goodself, lets have a recap with what you posted:

So Carlos, once you ban the Arabic music what next? The Koran, or a misreading, is used in these videos. So too are Muslim symbols. Should we ban them also?

How about banning Muslims also?

Never said once in any thread here 'ban Arabic music' find the post where I said that? Why have you implied that I would also want to ban muslims?

You do not even know what this song was, you just know it sounds alien and scary so people should not be allowed to listen to it.

Insuinuating that I'm a racist because I find the music offensive because it is 'alien and scary' not at all. Wrong again Terence.

You do not know the content of this music, its theme or its lyrics; you just had a knee-jerk reaction and if you went to the police and said: "I heard some Arabic guys talking on the bus, it sounded like the stuff you hear on the 'net, terror stuff, fancy arresting them'

I was the first person to say what the music was on the thread and it is holy music with lyrics that are passages from the Koran, the same music that is played on IED bombing videos. You hadn't a clue what it was till I posted the info on here, and you still don't.

How do you know how often I've fought racism? I might go out dressed as a Sheik late at night and beat-up random skinheads.

I know you haven't, so why don't you just say. 'I haven't done anything to combat racism' instead of trying to be smart and failing on an internet site. You are not alone, most people are like you that talk big and the shit hits the fan and they scurry off and do nowt. See what I'm doing Terence? I'm making assumptions about you without any prior knowledge about your background. My hunch is however that I'm probably right.

This music could have been an Arabic prayer, are we banning them in public? The dressing rooms also? Lump it in with the tobacco ban and away we go.

It is an Arabic prayer to song, No-one again said about banning anything. if we go back through this thread it is you talking about banning, I said in this climate it would be a good idea for Small and his management to reconsier the ring music. If not, then the promoters. Find any posts where I have typed the word 'to ban'

Your big stands have not included boycotting the Internet have they? A prime source of these videos as well as bomb-making kits and the like.

Again, has absolutely no relevance or point to this paticular debate. Please point out why this paticular non point of yours has any relevance to the debate?

Admit it, you had a bit of a rant over this and are now unable to back down.

It would help Terry if you had the intellect of tapwater, to be able to decipher and understand what I type instead of making things up, half understanding the arguments and making stupid, innaccurate character assesements with no basis on the truth.

it would also help if you stopped making stupid pointless references to listening to Wagner in world war 2, internet usage and equating terror in the middle east to 'Russian terror in the UK' Go and read something that not Asterix the Gaul and learn somthing, Jesus Christ!

boxrec wrote:Ok the last post makes no sense to me whatsoever. Also, i'm going to ask again....What was Skeltons ring entrance music?

Tell me what doesn't make sense and I will try my best to clarify whatever you want to know.

The harder they come by Jimmy Cliff

Abolsutely nothing wrong with Wigan and others having their opinion concerning Smalls music. Who is right and who is wrong? people have a right to express their views.

Put yourself in the position of someone who has lost his leg, arm, eyesight or is badly burned and you were watching the boxing on Saturday night, trust me you would have probably thrown something at the TV. No not because you were tarnishing all muslims with the same brush but simply because it would have brought the nightmare back to what happened to you.

The same sort of example is if you were a parent or relative of a soldier who had died in Afghanistan or Iraq, not because you dislike Anthony Small or Spencer Fearon but because the chanting or whatever it was called would have quite simply reminded you or what, where and why happened to the soldier who is now dead.

This is not about tarnishing all muslims with the same brush that is completely wrong to accuse anyone on this thread of doing. The message that is shining through on this thread is Small and his team could have used their heads and quite simply used a bit of sensivity and kept the religion and the arguments it would subsequently cause out of boxing.

Terry D wrote:No one, myself included, would give a shit if a British fighter came out to Churchill in Germany or when The Sun did its 'Achtung Surrender' headline. What a welcome for our German guests.

If Smalls is proven to support insurgent websites with his music then let him be slated. If he was using prayer music to get himself ready then that is fine by me.

No one is questioning your views for eff sake all anyone is saying there could have been a hell of a lot more sensitivity shown bearing in mind the last 3 months has been the worst for deaths and serious injuries in Afghanistan and Iraq since the conflicts started, and yes that is both sides of the conflict!!!!!!!!

ban the bomb, thats what i say !!

Terry D wrote: As for my views, I haven't actually given any in any great depth because there is a time and a place for that, the music question is a non-issue paraded by over-sensitive people who are hazy about their own objections.

There we go again people who do not have your opinion are being regarded as over sensitive and being hazy about their own objections. I will admit to you we are getting into an area where it could get messy and this is after all a boxing forum and not some relgious type argument.

I find it very interesting whatever side of the fence you sit on people simply cannot see the others point of view it happens a lot on these forums.

Nope. You brought these things-up so surely you watch them, if not how do you know the music was the same stuff you get in them? Maybe you just don't have the ear for musical differentiation and its different uses, that will become clearer shortly.

No, anyone can get Smalls ring entrance and you can hear from yourself what the music is.

The point is that you complain about music used by a fighter that was probably chosen for other reasons when you actually peruse these sites and make free use of the place, the Internet, where they appear freely. In reality fueling the message these guys give out.

Conjecture, you have absolutely no idea what Smalls reasons for putting that music on as his ring enterance, what is FACT is that the music is evident as background music on insurgent videos in the killing of British troops, if Small's reasons are innocent then he should show a little bit more sensitivity, common sense should be used at a time like this.

Because I watched the news at 10 about the Virginia tech shootings on a freeview channel (like on the internet) then I'm fuelling the flames for all would be mass murderers?

Nope, like I said if the mere presence of this type of music and ideology offends you why not pull the plug on it. I do.

There are times and places for music and ideologies, I have no problems
with the music being played in mosques or call to prayers or in homes or religious gatherings. Do I want it at the boxing? Not really, there is no place for it in my opinion and there is especially no place for it in a sports arena in the UK when British troops are dying in Iraq.

How the hell Smalls ring enterance music got the nod is beyond me. When we have British lads dying in Iraq, the last thing I want to hear is music from the iraqi insurgent videos blowing British troops up.

Somebody from Small's managment sort it out!

Now, that looks a bit like you are saying the music would not have passed muster if you were the main man in charge of these things, a DJ perhaps. 'Got the nod', would you have given it the shake? Your head that is.

Traslate that into some kind of legible english and I will anwser it I promise.

You want it sorted out, I take it you want it pulled and replaced with some Chris De Burgh? Or just censored in general?

Up to Small what he plays as his ring music. I personally rather not hear the backing music to Iraqi insurgent videos and I gather a lot of people agree with me.

I would not presume to know the workings of his team but I would like to think they are working on what lost him the fight, not preparing a mix-tape for the next one.

If they have any sense they will get rid of the crappy innappropiate ring entrance music and the even moe ridiculous SRCJJ nickename. Up to them because it is a free country but seeing as all fighters and managers try and find a niche in the market, Is Small being wise? I don't think so do you?

I really think, when fighting a Welsh fighter, 'Insurgency in the Vallies' was not on Smalls' mind. Nor was the situation in Iraq.

Do you know Small? if not then your opinions on what Small thinks about the situation in Iraq and how often his thinks about it is pointless and baseless. You are offering personal opinion based on no fact thus it is of no consequence.

I just said you want this song pulled, you made the rest of the assumptions about yourself, well, yourself. Not revealing yourself a bit there are you Carlos?

I, wanting the song pulled on personal taste is not the same as 'ban all Arabic music' and it is certainly not the same as 'ban all muslims' I'm glad though you have got it into your thick skull at last that you were bandying the 'racist' tag about innappropitely.

So it is a prayer? So it was probably used in many contexts before these videos? To inspire and lift you-up? Blow me maybe he used it to pump himself up for a boxing match, I hear there was one that night.

It is an Islamic musical prayer Terence, I agree there are contexts where it can be used and not give offence. However since we are in the UK and
the music Small played coming into the ring is also used as backing music to Iraqi insurgent videos that are being shown at the presen time the slaying of British troops, it is the height of crassness and I hate to think what the families of the 200 or so soldiers who have been killed in Afghanistan or Iraq must of thought when they saw it.

So know you've become the kind of Internet Freud-wrangler you accused me of being. It is all coming out tonight. You threw a smidgen of shit into the fan and stood my ground and I've addressed it, better. Hunches are for church-bell guarding gnomes, best to go off what you can rationalise. Take that as a freebie.

No! I'm pointing out your behaviour and thats why I said at the end, I'll put it in bold Terence so you can understand the point I was trying to make: See what I'm doing Terence? I'm making assumptions about you without any prior knowledge about your background. I know about you as much as you know about me. But you are coming across as a bit of a thick pudendum at this moment in time. So whatever hunches I have about you, they are probably right.

As euphemisms go 'get the nod' does it for me, how is it for you? Small can play whatever he likes as his entrance music. Democracy is good. If it is a prayer or inspirational too him then more power to his elbow. A bit more in his fists and we might have debated him for a different reason.

'Get the nod' means in this paticular case 'wheres the fcking brains or commonsense whoever is in charge of Smalls managment or the promotion in charge of the fight' absolutley innapropiate at this sensitive time and had no place on ITV in front of a national audience at a boxing match.

Does that mean 'ban all Arabic music' thats what YOU said I said. You are still not going to admit the bolloxs you have dropped are you?

I make assessment of your character. As for being able to decipher a point, well you are a smart guy. Read below.

it would also help if you stopped making stupid pointless references to listening to Wagner in world war 2, internet usage and equating terror in the middle east to 'Russian terror in the UK' Go and read something that not Asterix the Gaul and learn somthing, Jesus Chris

Wagner composed rallying music often used by the Third Reich, in propaganda, and as a rallying-call for German nationalism, with it racism and warmongering.

The point is that if a fighter came out to Wagner I would not immediately think:

"My what a subtle way for him to reveal his nationalistic and fascist leanings to the crowd was also mocking WWII veterans."

First of all, WW2 is recent history. Sad but true, the victims and the combatants of WW2 are in dotage or are dead. If a German fighter such as Karl Mildenberger had come into the ring to the 'horst wessel' or
one of Wagners rousing numbers when he fought Billy Walker or Henry Cooper at wembley which was 20 odd years after the war, what reception do you think he would have got? In the 1960s and early 1970s, the second world war was still a fresh and painful memory and programmes such as Dads Army, The germans sketch in Fawlty Towers showed the relevance in this.

The war in Iraq is NOW, big difference and British soldiers are dying every week. Smalls ring music was a lack of tact, courtesy and commonsense and to compre it to any random German fighter coming to the ring to Wagner is ridiculous because of a war that ended 62 years ago shows how little you understand this debate we are having. Besides, I have never known for a German fighter to come into the ring to Wagner, have you?

I would just probably think it is pretty good music to choose for a ring walk.

You see I can separate the two things and can reason it out.

You are joking, you barely understood what has been written on here and have talked complete shite throughout it.

Now, this thread will probably close at some point but you've been spanked and it wasn't quite entertaining enough for me to throw-out an encore.

Sums you up for the child that you are, 'i won, i won i won' what I suggest you do is get off your fat arse from your chair and compete in something physical and you can win something that you can take pride in. 3428 posts in 18 months tells me Terence is that you need exercise. 'Fighting' and 'beating' people in online arguments and then bragging about it has the hallmarks of a social retard... seriously Terence, get a life!

We'll chalk if off and agree to disagree as long as one us agrees that I'm right and the other differs but is wrong

See above. re: social retard, laymans term would be 'loser'

Ps I read 'Asterix the Gaul', in French, on the Eiffel tower, French-kissing a bird.

And you woke up to find your bedsit was cold and empty... but yuor computer opposite you was on boxrec and you felt elated, and then you started to cry about your sad, lonely existence. :(

I'm reading 'Tin Tin' at the moment.

I'm not suprised!

Terry D wrote:Whether you want to get Smalls' ring music or not the point is that you cannot just tell him to pull-it if, as I suspect, it is a prayer or piece of music that hypes him up for a fight.

Small is a Muslim. He reads the Koran, found in these videos I'm sure, he will pray, as I'm sure they do in these videos and I am smart enough to separate these activities, including his, we presume Islamic, musical preferences.

In fact if the guy is truly a Muslim I respect the fact he is coming-out to some Islamic music rather than crappy R & B (not James Brown though) or Garage.

What other kinds of music do you not want in boxing? Ballads and soft-rock is Ok right.

These guys, who were, allegedly, listening to 'Wonderwall' whilst planning home-grown atacks, should we bow to them and ban boxers from walking into the ring playing Oasis or soft-rock ballads because it was, allegedly, being played as home-grown weapons were being produced.

The backdrop defines the use of the music and Smalls used it to make his way to a boxing ring, probably to hype him up.

If you shake your head you turn something down, in this case a song. Keep-up.

Yep, it is up to Smalls what he plays on the way to the ring, he played Islamic music, you try and process that in your own time, I've actually made some points about boxing during this.

Wales in in a valley. 'Vallies' was a group-term for Wales. If Smalls was thinking of Iraq on route to the ring I worry for him.

No, you just want to ban Arabic music from boxing, I should have specified.

You put stuff in bold, the most pointless stuff, not the interesting 'Hunchback of Notre Dame' stuff, this intimidates me.

I hold my hands-up, I dropped my bollocks when I was a kid. As you say Small can play what he likes in the, forlorn, hope you can handle it.

WWII is recent history to you, not the participants or the victims, who have more to worry about than entrance music to a fight as do the participants in this war, which is being boiled-down to how a piece of music makes you feel. And, yes, I am pretty sure I've heard Wagner played by the orchestras you often get at continental promotions.

Then a bunch of insults that lack wit and imagination, fairly run of the mill stuff. All of it wrong also, particularly the weight

Again, Small might have innocent intentions to why he would come into the ring on a musical Islamic prayer. Is it a smart thing for him to do at a time like this? Does Small have the imagination to figure out his choice of ring music is libale to cause upset and offence, especially for any families of soldiers out in Iraq or who have died in Iraq?

I'm trying to make this simple for you to understand. At this moment in time, Smalls choice of ring enterance music isn't a smart move. It's funny when you see a smart fighter who 'gets it' and nuture a persona such as Barry McGuigan who went to great lengths to not cause offence and he was rewarded by a huge following of all faiths. Now if you want to take this to a very superficial, marketing context. Is Small being smart in promoting himself?

I don't care what music anyone plays. No, I'm no fan of R & B either,
but I wasn't too impressed with Smalls desert island disc choice. As for the terrorists who supposed to have played 'wonderwall' well there is no-one around to say otherwise. They all blew themselves up! So again it is an allegation and thus pointless, can you make points based on facts?

'Valleys' you mean. I'm not a spelling nazi by any means. but if you want to play the part of the superior intellectual in relation to me, sort out your plural spelling! Anyway, you don't know what Small thinks about
unless he has taken you into his confidence so again, your theories are baseless. I don't know what goes through Small's mind when that dirge was playing but someone, somewhere in my opinion could have shown tact and commonsense towards the viewing public.

Again, 'Arabic music' and 'Islamic religious music from the text from the Koran' are completely different. Now if you are going to play intellctual here you are going to have to start rasing your game a bit. Have I said I'm against Arabic rock, pop, reggae? There you go... assuming again
based on nothing I have said.

WW2 and the effects a piece of music that meant a lot from that time such as 'deuschland uber alles' doesn't mean as much now. Thats because time has healed the wounds that were open. Time heals, just like 'God save the queen' does not offend the Scots. However 'deuschland uber alles' and 'God save the queen' offended at the time both the British and the Scots respectively. It is all about time frames and factors, the war in Iraq is NOW and British soldiers are dying NOW and for Small to play Islamic music that is used as music for insurgent videos is crass, offensive and nonsensical.

No German fighter I have ever known has come into the ring to Wagner, so next time a German fighter comes into the ring to Wagner, you let me know Terry. How long do you think we will wait?

Well if the bunch of insults lack wit and imagination thats because you lack wit and imagintion. Insinuating that I'm a racist and then acting like a 14 year old girl in proclaiming victory in an internet debate has shown you up for what you are.

For me, there are no winners. Just differing opinions - my line of argument regarding the whole subject is up here for everyone to see. 8)

Terry yourself and others are gracious enough to give Anthony Small the benefit of the doubt and hint that Smalls intentions were honourable. Fair enough but where I get confused is the "Scream Mask". Why does Small wear a mask which was used by a character on a film to kill people in a barbaric way. So if this chanting, peaceful chanting a lot of you say, was used for hyping Small up, why does he then contradict himself by still wearing the scream mask.

People want to give Small the benefit of doubt. People state no one should tarnish people with the same brush, I am willing to bet there will be a lot of innocent and perfectly respectable muslims who will not only be confused by Smalls actions on Saturday evening but also angry that Small seems to contradict himself with the ring entrance music on one hand and the mask on the other!!!

Carlos-Wigan (did your parents call you that in case you got lost, that is witty, not childish). Lets clear Vallies up first, I'm glad you are not a spelling Nazi because your spelling is atrocious (entereance, nuture, eh?) but that does not bother me unless I'm pointing out what is good for the goose. When correcting spelling and grammar look to your own and then mine. I like 'Vallies', the double-L and the 'ies' give it a nice flow in my eyes. So I spell it like that, you think that makes me look dumb? The loss of the 'y' caused you to go into meltdown.

No 'vallies' is wrong, plain and simple, I admit I'm an average intellect
whereas you are making out to be some kind of intellectual sage. So thus you have to be immaculate in your spelling and argument, lest with people coming to the conclusion that you are not as clever than you think you are, correct?

As for Smalls, as you now admit he is entitled to play that music so your pointless and boring thread has lost its only 'point'.

I have never ever said he should be banned (being the true democrat that I am) from playing his dirge, only that he, his managment and the promoters have more decorum and tact. Lets go back to my first post and you wil see my points and my arguments are consistent.

When is it an Ok time for Smalls to play Arabic music according to your watch? Did you get this sensitive when Naz (not too long after September the eleventh 2001) said a prayer in Arabic pre-fight? Did you get your soap-box out? I did not, I thought he should have concentrated on the fight.

Not that it did him much good, I wasn't too bothered as British troops had not been sent out to the middle east at the time and were coming back in flag draped coffins. Going on to Alberts post previous to this, Small could have shown tact and responsibility. Amir Khan 'gets it' and has nurtured a persona that embraces all. Do you think if Khan came out to Muscial phrases from the Koran it would be a smart thing to do at this sensitive time?

Arabic reggae is sang in Arabic, on a PA system your average minded person, step forward you, will probably be unable to see the monotonous baselines as reggae and will just hear the Arabic and assume that it is from Internet insurgency sites.

It is funny that a couple of days ago you had no idea what the music Small came out to but all of a sudden you are an expert in Arabic music! What Arabic music have you listened to? I think when you came out with the point above, you were confusing yourself for I. Now let me just state that there is a huge Arabic language music industry and that MTV is going to create a channel for the middle east. Is there a marked difference between holy islamic text to music and Arabic pop songs and reggae? Yes there is and if Small had come out to an Arabic pop song, I woul have had no complaints bcause we would have all known the dfference.

'God Save the Queen' has been played many times during Britains many wars and conflicts without anyone giving a hoot. Plus we know that song and what it is about, you do not know where Smalls' music stems from.

Played in Britian and the various nations of the commonwealth, I don't think 'God save the queen' would be too popular a request at Baghdad FM. I have told you a dozen times what Small's music is. Because you haven't got a clue doesn't mean that others are as uninformed as you.

At German, and other continental shows, they have classical music played by a small orchestra on a platform, I am pretty sure I've heard them play Wagner and did not think a thing of it, I just thought it was classy and better than the wannabe gangster music many people use.

'I'm pretty sure' is baseless information and thus not applicable to your point. No German fighter hs ever come out to Wagner in the 25 years I have watched boxing and you wouldn't know a Wagner recital if it kicked you in the balls. Terry, in a debate, try and not use assumption and personal opinion and pass them on as fact.

I need wit and imagination to transcribe your subtle insults such as "lose weight" and "you live in a bed-sit". Wow, I guess I'm being out-smarted here by a guy who needs to include the name of his hometown in his username in case he forgets where he is from.

I didn't give too much thought to my username to come on this boxing forum Does this put me down the intellctual chain with you at the top? oh please!

Muktar Said Ibrahim had Oasis CD's in his flat, former friends said he would listen to Oasis and other Western music in prison (as a sign of his normality). He was particularly fond of 'Wonderwall'. It was in the rags and the 'peoples opinions on their newsworthy neighbours that is now seen as reporting the news' comments.

Baseless, and not really relevant anyway. Try and stick to the point and facts, hearsay and other peoples skewed opinions that might not be true
(sure they could be... but no proving it either way as the protagonist involved is dead) people com out and say things just to have their voices heard. Also this would be more relevant to your point if 'Wonderwall' had been blasting out in Baghdad and not Hunslet.

Yes, we can all see what you've done on this thread, made a cock out of yourself.

'i won, i won, i won' Terry, it is you who has proclaimed victory in an internet debate and thus are a cock and a complete social retard whatever you have to say on any subject.

Go and get a lollipop as first prize off mummy, you little soldier you!

You made a hash of it Carlos, now you are saying nothing and wasting too much space saying it. You are like the kid from 'Deliverance' a few, in this case bum, notes but mostly drooling nonsense.

Thats strange Terry, because I'm replying to all your points in the posts that you make. So if I'm writing drooling nonsense then it is in reponse to drooling nonsense!

When I have accredited myself as intellectually superior to you? These are your intellectual hang-ups coming through on this thread Carlos.

Your posts reeks of a superiority complex.

I said you would reveal youreself here and I was right.

More silly online pop psychology, I thought you didn't do that? Terry you are a dullard as well as a social retard. Zzzzzzz

I've heard Arabic music. I've been given prayer-tapes by Muslims and listened to them. At first they all sound the same. Then not the same. I've listened to lectures by Muslims in which Arabic music is used as a backdrop, that also sounds samey to Western ears but I am sure it has a purpose.

They don't sound the same to western ears at all, now you have gone on to making sweeping generalizations. Do you also think 'that westerners think all Arabs look the same' It doesn't take much of a trained ear to decipher Arabic pop music from musical religious passages from the Koran. Lets do a little experiment:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1BqC9srUiQ

(Arabic pop)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h316u3y3Lzk

(Insurgent video)

Is there a difference? I think so and a marked difference!

Arabic reggae, though, well it sounds like reggae only foreign innit. Much like French hip-hop or Bangra hip-hop.

Speak for yourself!

I say 'given a spank' often. This, coupled with your intellectual inferiority complex, has lead you off on one. Yes I post here often. I posted on other GB's also and if you can spell and express yourself at some point someone will say you are lording it over everyone and that you are some kind of intelectual snob in the hope others will join in with this line of argument. It is not happening. I can spell and think, it is a sad sign of the times that you think that is a flaw on my part.
Look, you can carry-on providing entertainment for us. I did four tours of Lebanon OT and believe me you are not saying anything new or remotely interesting. I only reply out of courtesy as none of your boxing posts ever stood out enough for me to find you interesting so I thought I would maintain good manners despite finding you dull and repetitive.

You know competitiveness on an internet forum isn't a healthy outlet is it? I never saw this as 'winning' or 'losing' just as debate with two differing points of view, with my points of view being consistent.

As for my boxing posts not being interesting blahblahblah now you are really hurting my feelings! Who the hell cares! as for your four tours of Lebanon, well they weren't with the British army and 3479 posts in 18 months is TOO MUCH SITTING ON YOUR ARSE.

If you find me as dull and repetitve as I find you Terence... then you are at liberty not to reply as I won't take your absence as some kind of 'victory' 8)

You are fillibusting, badly. If you are going to throw-up links (no more "this is me at a march" crap though) why not prove the music is 100% from insurgent videos then prove it is written specially for them and is not a prayer. I imagine it is a prayer. If it was pop or reggae, without having to understand the words, I would have known straightaway.

It wasn't a march Terry, it was a riot Buy the book and not only will you learn something about anti fascist resistance in the UK but you will help buy the author that garden patio he is always going on about.

For the 14th time, Smalls ring entrance music was a prayer. That in itself is not evil, however with the current situation as it is, Small was being neither big, sensible or clever.

You cannot have competition with an underling. You have not excelled in both boxing or OT strands. If you was a TerribleTerry, Jimmy Mac or that ilk I would disagree with you but I imagine your argument would have essence and a bit of wit, not childishness and this "I'm just some guy you think is thick but I have views too and just because you can string a few words together..." spiel. Unfortunately everyone is entitled to an opinion, still it is nice to have an informed one and you do not. Go on a march or something and I'll read the books and watch the news.

I'll let everyone who wants to be arsed to read the thread and judge for themselves, am I thick? I'm off to South Korea to teach English in September, what do you do for your loaf? as for namedropping Jimmy Mac, why don't you ask him what he thinks about me and my boxing knowledge? We have exchanged opinions on the sweet science since 2000.

You can take my absence, after this, as a mark of general disdain.

Oh good, we can remain friends and move on from this I hope. 8)

As for my number of posts, erm I can bash them out like nobodies business and rarely post at home.

A waste of Jobclubs resources and a waste of taxpayers money!
stop wasting everyones time and go and find a job!

KO Artist wrote:It is interesting that posters are comparing boxing to football sectarianism.

I am nearly 35 and was in a gym from 1980 till 1995.

I boxed for Westminster and St Pancras

I sparred all over London, Kingston, Acton, Battersea, Earlsfield, Lion, Stowe, All Stars, Lynn etc.

I grew up on a mainly white/black west Indian Estate.

Through Boxing I met all races and religions.

We all got on. There was mutual respect.

We didnt let the troubles of the outside world interfere with the gym.

I remember Dave Dent, John Hanley, Trigger Bantan, Conn McMullen, Neil Dickinson, Vince Burns, John Collins, Wayne Alexander, Matthew Barr, Paul Hersey, Graham Brett Peter Wilson, Howard Eastman, Anthony Campbell Kane Archer etc..

Regardless of ability we all had respect for each other.

at the end of the day there is no place for race or religion in sport i dont see why people think they have to let everyone know what there religion is i dont give a toss what you belive in if i wanted to know id go to church and find out all that small has done is give people the hump witch means now people will stop going to see him fight so it's going to be harder for promoters to put him on shows because he dont sell tickets and he's not the most active boxer around is he

That's right, regardless of his talent/style or whoever he fights, I'm never going to watch him fight ever again... because I didn't like his ring music.

Terry D wrote:Albert, as far as I've seen Smalls has worn this mask for a long-time when entering the ring so it was not news to me nor did I think, with the music, it was part of some insidious plot to make a political statement.

Yes, I give Smalls the benefit of not thinking he was insulting troops.

Two statements Terry which I have picked out.

Of course I know Small has been wearing the mask for virtually all of his fights and this is the most important part of this thread, in yours and others rush to give Small the benefit of the doubt the mask and the religious chanting simply do not go together and are a complete and utter contradiction of each other.

With regards to Smalls views towards the troops, do not be a fool, after reading your posts I think you have an extensive knowledge of boxing and of course your posts are well written but that alone does not always make you right.

Do not tell me in the Arena Small was in knowing the broadcast was going out to millions or certainly hundreds of thousands of people and the FACT we have all acknowledged Small was making some sort of political or religious statement that he suddenly would not be aware the music/chanting would come across in a sensitive possibly even offensive manner to some people.

So what you are saying now is, Small wears a mask which is best known in a film where the character butchers his victims but at the same time he comes to the ring with RELIGIOUS CHANTING, furthermore he has had hundreds of troops see him fight before but yet he won't be aware in the current political climate that he is touching a very sensitive subject.

A final question for you, why on earth does Small have to think he has to make this sort of political/religious statement?

After seeing on the other thread Smalls actions I cannot believe the mans arrogance.

billy bessey wrote:wales got it right with his quote about you wouldnt go into a sunderland pub singing newcastle songs whatever the song was about theres a time and a place and the times for things like that are in mosques or at home given the current situation. ethnic minoritys are all too quick to blame us for racism yet they are as much if not more racist then us and i know the british/u.s haters are in the minority but the law abiding ones dont exactly try to integrate with us and things like this really doesnt help there cause. when i was out in iraq 12 fellow squaddies died out there and loads have died since and continue to do so. you can call me racist but no matter how strongly you feel about us being out there when your in this country and our lads are still dying out there you should keep your mouth shut and abide by our laws and ways in public otherwise eff OFF

[/quote]
Our laws allow people to think waht they want and say it. and it is a bit hypocritical to say that when they are in our country blah blah blah, when we are unwanted in theris and that is why your squaddies are dying . . .

But why are we still linking Muslim prayer to Allied deaths???

Plus the Barry Mac comparison is a waste of time, if he came out to a Nationalist song it would be to DELIBERATLY incite the Orange boys, thats why the songs were created,theres a link there!!

Small seems a divvy but in no way should his Musical taste affect his standing

The guy came out to relgious music, because he is religious, he is entitled to be religious, anyone who thinks it is an affront to the UK or its troops illegaly stationed out in Iraq is harbouring some pretty harsh xenophobia. And if it offends people who get their jollies from watching death porn, by sounding similar to the relgious music on their sicko videos . . . good!

E wrote:

dopey wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:Unless somebody here can translate Arabic or knows the piece in question, I think it's a pretty irresponsible/ignorant assumption to make that just because it was Muslim music, it was anti-white music.

If it WAS, then fair enough, but I very much doubt that.

I think Oliver really sums it up, until we know what the music was it is pointless debating it.

The only thing I can add is Small has the right to play whatever he chooses but he's got to have a thought to the crowd, he came on late and by that time there was the boozed up morons pissed out of their heads taking offense to it, had it been prime time it may have stirred the crowd up and with a multi-racial crowd it may have resulted in a few disagreements.

Did anyone hear the moron shouting abuse at Skelton then screaming at Joe C to knock the German C_unt Chrysler out in his next fight. Priceless!

YEs does anyone here understand arabic? I guess that would be the only way. One thing though is that in thsi political climate it may not have been the smartest PR move....

Didn't catch that drunkard yelling - was this caught on TV? would be funny to check my Sky +..........

Missed the fight, Allahu Akbar translates as God is Great. It is a phrase used in all Islamic prayer. I assume Small's ring music was pray or religous music.

If hes inciting hate, translate the said hated message and have him arrested. It isn't that difficult

I find all of this a little ridiculous.

If Small plays a religious chant, or other islamic music when he comes into the ring, that's fair enough, provided it's not some extremist nonsense, which I've yet to hear any evidence of, it's entirely up to him.

Saying that his playing religious music is inappropriate, is about as relevant as saying that Enzo Maccaranelli's 'Big Mac' nickname represents the evils of America, and mulsims boycotting his fights....

This is a storm in a teacup, If someone can present some evidence that the music was some sort of Jihadi-hip-hop, then I'm willing to listen, but otherwise, this is nonsense.

LOCK

Many of you are failing to see a fundamental point, if anyone was to or try to understand the muslim religion you will know Small has completely contradicted himself and its a point all of you are simply failing to see so it will be repeated.

Religious chanting/music fine, I acknowledge someone should choose what he wishes but to contradict it by wearing a scream mask, I am willing to bet many many practising muslims would have been embarassed to see Small commit such an act.