J wrote:Cos weigth hopping encourages cherry picking and not clearing out divsions and fighting the best fighters at their best weights thats why.
Hatton moved up to fight PBF remember?
Now pac is moving down....your argument doesnt make sense mate.
Obviously the quality of the opponents the fighter's faced has to be taken into consideration as well.
Pac is a natural superbantam who is fighting at LightWelter, surely that has to be taken into consideration.
If Pacman stopped at superbantam and featherweight and ruled the division for 6 years he'd be higher in the P4P rankings than if he'd have moved through the weights, surely that can't be right
Last edited by Chambers2 on 03 Mar 2009, 11:58, edited 1 time in total.
Terence wrote:P4P is nonsense. So is weight hopping your way to that title. Sugar Ray Leonard started it, and he was gifted his SMW title to help make up the numbers. Oscar De La Hoya won more titles than Hagler, at more weights, but was he consistently the #1 in his division? No. Judging P4P claims requires lateral thought, that is why some people will never get it.
J wrote:Cos weigth hopping encourages cherry picking and not clearing out divsions and fighting the best fighters at their best weights thats why.
Hatton moved up to fight PBF remember?
Now pac is moving down....your argument doesnt make sense mate.
Obviously the quality of the opponents the fighter's faced has to be taken into consideration as well.
Pac is a natural superbantam who is fighting at LightWelter, surely that has to be taken into consideration.
If Pacman stopped at superbantam and featherweight and ruled the division for 6 years he'd be higher in the P4P rankings than if he'd have moved through the weights, surely that can't be right
Chambers are you being deliberatly daft here mate?
he isnt anatural super bantam / feather or anything else anymore he moved up to lightweight cos he couldnt make superfeather. If anything Id say pac would operate at lightweight these days. So the move to l welter isnt exactly that much of an issue is it.
its like saying oscar is a super feather when now he is a natural light middle (not a wleter that was proved vs pac)....its no different.
Last edited by J on 03 Mar 2009, 12:03, edited 1 time in total.
J wrote:Asterix,
yeah but do we know for sure pac can make lightwieght now perhaps light welter is his best weight now.................who knows outside the pac camp?
That's a good point. Roach has stated that Manny won't be going back to lightweight, so Manny is the P4P #1 even as a light welterweight, which is a weight he hasn't yet fought at (although you could argue he was pretty much there for the De La Hoya fight).
That gives good grounding to say that Hatton would be the P4P #1 if he beats Pacman, but what about Marquez? He is around the same level as Pacman, but he is a lightweight, and P4P is also currently better than Hatton.
It's so subjective that we're just going to have to wait and see how the fight turns out.
J wrote:
Chambers are you being deliberatly daft here mate?
he isnt anatural super bantam / feather or anything else anymore he moved up to lightweight cos he couldnt make superfeather. If anything Id say pac would operate at lightweight these days. So the move to l welter isnt exactly that much of an issue is it.
its like saying oscar is a super feather when now he is a natural light middle (not a wleter that was proved vs pac)....its no different.
I don't think I'm being daft at all
Did Pacman move up in weight because he couldn't make the feather or superfeatherweight limits or is it because he'd fought and beat the best in the division (MAB, Morales, Larios, JMM) and ran out of challenges. It's the latter IMO
Chambers2 wrote:I don't think I'm being daft at all
Did Pacman move up in weight because he couldn't make the feather or superfeatherweight limits or is it because he'd fought and beat the best in the division (MAB, Morales, Larios, JMM) and ran out of challenges. It's the latter IMO
Sorry Chambers, he moved up because of weight issues.
J wrote:
Chambers are you being deliberatly daft here mate?
he isnt anatural super bantam / feather or anything else anymore he moved up to lightweight cos he couldnt make superfeather. If anything Id say pac would operate at lightweight these days. So the move to l welter isnt exactly that much of an issue is it.
its like saying oscar is a super feather when now he is a natural light middle (not a wleter that was proved vs pac)....its no different.
I don't think I'm being daft at all
Did Pacman move up in weight because he couldn't make the feather or superfeatherweight limits or is it because he'd fought and beat the best in the division (MAB, Morales, Larios, JMM) and ran out of challenges. It's the latter IMO
pac cant make s/feather anymore Roach has more than said that. No offence mate ill take his word over yours.
Chambers2 wrote:I don't think I'm being daft at all
Did Pacman move up in weight because he couldn't make the feather or superfeatherweight limits or is it because he'd fought and beat the best in the division (MAB, Morales, Larios, JMM) and ran out of challenges. It's the latter IMO
Sorry Chambers, he moved up because of weight issues.
J wrote:
Chambers are you being deliberatly daft here mate?
he isnt anatural super bantam / feather or anything else anymore he moved up to lightweight cos he couldnt make superfeather. If anything Id say pac would operate at lightweight these days. So the move to l welter isnt exactly that much of an issue is it.
its like saying oscar is a super feather when now he is a natural light middle (not a wleter that was proved vs pac)....its no different.
I don't think I'm being daft at all
Did Pacman move up in weight because he couldn't make the feather or superfeatherweight limits or is it because he'd fought and beat the best in the division (MAB, Morales, Larios, JMM) and ran out of challenges. It's the latter IMO
pac cant make s/feather anymore Roach has more than said that. No offence mate ill take his word over yours.
You're (unusually) snappy today J, having a bad un?
Pacquiao gained 12.5 lbs between the weigh in and his fight with David Diaz, which was a lightweight bout. That's massive draining even for a lightweight.
For Pacquiao's fight with Juan Manuel Marquez, which was a super featherweight bout, he gained 16 lbs!!!
Did Pacman move up in weight because he couldn't make the feather or superfeatherweight limits or is it because he'd fought and beat the best in the division (MAB, Morales, Larios, JMM) and ran out of challenges. It's the latter IMO
pac cant make s/feather anymore Roach has more than said that. No offence mate ill take his word over yours.
You're (unusually) snappy today J, having a bad un?[/quote]
Sorry mate not intended to be, just get fed up with the constant hatton bashing, i mean the guy will have fouight zoo, pbf and Pac yet he is a ducker blah blah blah blah....
cazlagehdont have a name that good on his record and he is lauded as the best brit ever.
my arsole.
I've stopped Hatton bashing, I think I'm finally getting over him 'not taking' the Witter fight (although it still grips my shit). My argument in this thread wasn't designed to be a Hatton bashing one..... I just honestly don't see how he can be considered as P4P#1, considering Pacmans best wins are over Morales X2, Barrera X2, JMM and Larios (and MP hasn't 'not taken' a fight), where as Hattons (who has a very good record just not a P4P#1 one) best wins are against an aged Kostya + Castillo, Collazo, Urango and Paulie (plus a loss to PBF)
trig wrote:ive posted a thread like this on another forum.
hattons insulting peoples boxing intelligence,the one's that understand that is.
manny is going through 4 weights!!has beaten 2 prime mexican legends thats p4p status,hatton is another challenge a bigger man the best at his weight the fm of the 10 stoners theres know shame if he loses to hatton.
hatton boxed up at welter was lucky against collazo,found out by mw who wasnt considerd a dangerous puncher at 10-7 hatton trying to surpass other brits by fighting a midget is taking the pee its another feat 4 manny when he takes hattons scalp.4 hatton to be considerd p4p he'd haft to beat the best of the welters(no chance)
And we all know he will never fight the top natural welters...even though he is one himself ( Natural Welter)!
J wrote:Cos weigth hopping encourages cherry picking and not clearing out divsions and fighting the best fighters at their best weights thats why.
Hatton moved up to fight PBF remember?
Now pac is moving down....your argument doesnt make sense mate.
Pac moving down?
You really are an arse. Pacman was at Lightweight the fight BEFORE DLh and Pac went UP UP UP to fight DLH and has no history before at 140 let alone 147.
trig wrote:your right hatton is a naturall welter,its amazing how he boils down.ive noticed that he has become to tire in fights now i know he never in the malinaggi fight but he never had nothing infront of him.
hatton does struggle with southpaws & speed & i believe manny has a better engine & could cut hatton to bits,but i do fancy hatton to win the fight which should live up to the hype im sure.
I think Hatton will beat Pacman!
But he will not be P4P No1 despite J crying like a woman.
im not asking his normal fighting weight im asking a straight questions so answer the question idiot?
perhops if you joined in the context of the conversation you would understand though i doubt someone as challenged as yourself can hold your attention for longer than two seconds so this maybe doubtful.
trig wrote:your right hatton is a naturall welter,its amazing how he boils down.ive noticed that he has become to tire in fights now i know he never in the malinaggi fight but he never had nothing infront of him.
hatton does struggle with southpaws & speed & i believe manny has a better engine & could cut hatton to bits,but i do fancy hatton to win the fight which should live up to the hype im sure.
he tired a little against tackie in the last 2 rds.
and that fight was over 5 yrs ago.
proof that his stamina has never been invincible.
u fight at the pace rick does and ya gonna feel it from time to time. :>
im not asking his normal fighting weight im asking a straight questions so answer the question idiot?
perhops if you joined in the context of the conversation you would understand though i doubt someone as challenged as yourself can hold your attention for longer than two seconds so this maybe doubtful.
Shut up, J.
Calm yourself down. Hatton will not be P4P i he beats Manny and his most loyal Fan HitmanHatton1 agrees.
Pacman could have fought at Welter against Paul Williams/Cotto/Margarito/Mosley/Berto etc and he would have loast BECAUSE HE IS NOT A WELTER!
