Once Frazier got into his rhythm, he was Death itself. The idea that Tyson would bomb him out because Foreman did it to a fading Frazier is a big, big leap. Does Mike develop George's long arms in this fantasy fight, so he can toss Joe back into perfect range? Because if him and Joe are the same real world short fighters with short arms, then the dynamic is totally different to all those Tyson fights, where he was a short awkward nightmare target for fighters who ranged from 6'2'' to 6'6''. Frazier was a hard target for a lot of fast-handed fighters. Kram writes a brilliant analysis of his style in Ghosts of Manila.
Yep, I don't see any Fight of the Century type display of heart and guts anywhere in Tyson's career, nor do I see him capable of dredging up such a performance, or of relishing the pain and agony of tough fights like Frazier did--whenever it was asked of Mike, he dropped to the canvas like a severed ear. The peak Frazier who was on fire is a hard task for anyone, let alone a man-child who did not like being challenged like Mike Tyson. Anyone who thinks Marvis Frazier is comparable in any way to Smokin' Joe is obviously very new to boxing and doesn't understand what it is they're watching. The above exchange, from the two forecasting Frazier's quick demise, belongs in the comments section of Youtube, not on Boxrec. I'll give you good odds that these two are the classic record skimmers. They look at weights and rounds, KO ratios, and only actually watch the fights where the subject gets knocked out. This is all they require to form an unshakeable opinion of a fighter, and of his other performances they remain ignorant. Probably they have the complete Tyson DVD set though, and have watched it ad nauseum.
You are wrong on the posters. I watched Frazier during his prime. I saw Tyson during his (brief tho it was). Frazier wouldn't have been able to handle Mike. Frazier moved forward only. No side to side. Tyson in his prime was a master of foot work/angles/power/speed. Frazier would have been overwhelmed. Every fight I mentioned, I saw first hand. Because you disagree you insult and belittle. That is no argument. The comps are necessary to come formulate a conclusion. Thank you.
Nonsense. Frazier was actually an excellent boxer. Ali had way better movement than Tyson ever did; his footwork in their first fight was great. People just think of Frazier as a duck and left hook fighter but his style made him extremely difficult to hit and he would slightly adjust his head positioning depending on his opponent
There is no doubt about that (see Ali fights), BUT, IMHO, Tyson's superior angling, speed and power would be too much for Joe. I never said Joe wasn't a great fighter. I'm well aware of his ability to 'feel' what to do; his elusiveness, his power; etc, especially in close quarters. Tyson in his prime was just too quick, too fast, too strong. Unfortunately, we can't prove what would happen once they would be in the ring.
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 12:00
by oogiebe
Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 11:47
Once Frazier got into his rhythm, he was Death itself. The idea that Tyson would bomb him out because Foreman did it to a fading Frazier is a big, big leap. Does Mike develop George's long arms in this fantasy fight, so he can toss Joe back into perfect range? Because if him and Joe are the same real world short fighters with short arms, then the dynamic is totally different to all those Tyson fights, where he was a short awkward nightmare target for fighters who ranged from 6'2'' to 6'6''. Frazier was a hard target for a lot of fast-handed fighters. Kram writes a brilliant analysis of his style in Ghosts of Manila.
There is no comparison between Foreman, Ali, and Tyson on how Tyson would approach/win this fight. Frazier would come straight forward, bobbing up and down and Tyson would angle away; switch stances; and fire combinations; not tap his shoulders or hand block his arms. Different fight altogether.
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 12:48
by Onetimeonly
Frazier would back Tyson up and kick his ass. You're describing skills he didn't possess. Mike was an average infighter. Frazier is a nightmare for him.
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 12:52
by oogiebe
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 12:48
Frazier would back Tyson up and kick his ass. You're describing skills he didn't possess. Mike was an average infighter. Frazier is a nightmare for him.
You are off base here. I never said Tyson was a good inside fighter, I'm expressing how he would use his tremendous ability to change angles and his footwork in avoiding an on-rushing Frazier. It's ok to disagree on this.
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 12:48
Frazier would back Tyson up and kick his ass. You're describing skills he didn't possess. Mike was an average infighter. Frazier is a nightmare for him.
You are off base here. I never said Tyson was a good inside fighter, I'm expressing how he would use his tremendous ability to change angles and his footwork in avoiding an on-rushing Frazier. It's ok to disagree on this.
When did he exhibit such shiftiness against a speedy charging bull? Ali couldn't do it.
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 12:48
Frazier would back Tyson up and kick his ass. You're describing skills he didn't possess. Mike was an average infighter. Frazier is a nightmare for him.
You are off base here. I never said Tyson was a good inside fighter, I'm expressing how he would use his tremendous ability to change angles and his footwork in avoiding an on-rushing Frazier. It's ok to disagree on this.
When did he exhibit such shiftiness against a speedy charging bull? Ali couldn't do it.
Neither fighter has a good comp. Watch early Tyson fights and watch his defense; footwork; angles; counterpunching, etc. Do the same for Frazier. WE can only deduce, and if we differ, so be it. Am I positive on the outcome I see, of course not, no one can be.
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 13:03
by Onetimeonly
I've seen all of Mike's fights. He didn't possess the reactive ability you're describing. He was a highly skilled trained robot. Not a thinker in there. However you cut it, they're fighting on the inside and Frazier wouldn't let Mike hold like he was prone too.
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 13:06
by oogiebe
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 13:03
I've seen all of Mike's fights. He didn't possess the reactive ability you're describing. He was a highly skilled trained robot. Not a thinker in there. However you cut it, they're fighting on the inside and Frazier wouldn't let Mike hold like he was prone too.
Tyson held when he fought bigger fighters for sure OTO. He would oblige a clinch. But, whatever you say. You're always right. Sometimes, your inability to accept another view is frustrating.
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 13:08
by Tuan_Jim
Tyson held everybody. He got beaten silly trying to hold and reset versus Holyfield.
Two short guys with short arms and aggressive styles are going to end up fighting up close. Frazier is one of the greatest and most punishing infighters ever. Mike Tyson famously had no infighting game. And yet the guy who is clueless on the inside and just wants to hold and reset is a lock to beat the man who perfected the art?
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 13:03
I've seen all of Mike's fights. He didn't possess the reactive ability you're describing. He was a highly skilled trained robot. Not a thinker in there. However you cut it, they're fighting on the inside and Frazier wouldn't let Mike hold like he was prone too.
Tyson held when he fought bigger fighters for sure OTO. He would oblige a clinch. But, whatever you say. You're always right. Sometimes, your inability to accept another view is frustrating.
I'm definitely right about you inventing skills Mike didn't have. Nobody is right about a mythical fight. Except for Mancini/gatti!!!
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 13:03
I've seen all of Mike's fights. He didn't possess the reactive ability you're describing. He was a highly skilled trained robot. Not a thinker in there. However you cut it, they're fighting on the inside and Frazier wouldn't let Mike hold like he was prone too.
Tyson held when he fought bigger fighters for sure OTO. He would oblige a clinch. But, whatever you say. You're always right. Sometimes, your inability to accept another view is frustrating.
I'm definitely right about you inventing skills Mike didn't have. Nobody is right about a mythical fight. Except for Mancini/gatti!!!
Tyson vs Vitali Klitschko
Tyson vs Frazier
Bruno vs Joshua
Cammarelle vs Teofilo Stevenson (at superheavyweight)
Teofilo Stevenson vs Felix Savon (at heavyweight, of course)
Told you there was more to come... and there might be much more.
What about Sugar Ray Leonard vs Sugar Shane Mosley, at welterweight..?
Both fighters could put up an amazing pace, and I like fights at a higher pace.
Leonard is great, but Mosley is top-notch, in the same class as Leonard.
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 10 Jan 2019, 06:45
by brian13
Arturo Gatti / Chico Corrales
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 10 Jan 2019, 11:04
by coneye
Before Buster took care of him , Mike Tyson and myself , 3 rnd war then i sparkle him out cold , , make a couple mill doing it and retire straight away , It was a quick dream
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 10 Jan 2019, 11:05
by oogiebe
coneye wrote: ↑10 Jan 2019, 11:04
Before Buster took care of him , Mike Tyson and myself , 3 rnd war then i sparkle him out cold , , make a couple mill doing it and retire straight away , It was a quick dream
LMAO!!! Didn't think of that angle!!
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 14 Jan 2019, 04:25
by writehooks
1) Sonny Liston vs. George Chuvalo
2) Carlos Monzon vs. Marvin Hagler
3) Sir Oswald Mosley vs. Margaret Thatcher
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 29 May 2019, 08:58
by Jacopodb
Lennox Lewis vs George Foreman.
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 30 May 2019, 16:09
by dr_devious
Foreman v Liston
Tyson v Frazier
Re: fantasy fights ! what would be yours ?
Posted: 30 May 2019, 16:35
by KiwiRider
Christina Hammer Vs all the Kardashions (including the bloke in a dress)
Just put all of them in the ring and let the Hammer fall
