BoxRec

For me it was on a undercard fight of James "Quick" Tillis vs a guy named Lery Boone at the Old Americana Congress Hotel in Chicago in 83.
Just a four rounder for me, but I made the poster.
Man I was puffin my chest.

Expug wrote:For me it was on a undercard fight of James "Quick" Tillis vs a guy named Lery Boone at the Old Americana Congress Hotel in Chicago in 83.
Just a four rounder for me, but I made the poster.
Man I was puffin my chest.

That's a big deal, Pug. Tillis is the first man to take Tyson the distance, as well as fight the cream of the heavyweight crop of the era. I hope you still have your poster, mine was lost with other mementos in a nasty divorce.

-Rick

Rick,

This is Babe Antunez, an early opponent of Dwight Hawkins

Thanks Rick.
I have it in the basement of my house on the wall.
Whats funny about that night, and you will totally understand this from being on the inside of boxing , was after I fought, (I won by 2nd round kayo). Leroy Boone in the main event against Tillis needed a cornerman. I dont think he came with anybody to the fight.Must have figured whatever he made, was going in HIS pocket .
My trainer Tony got up there and worked his corner.I think he went ten rounds too.

WHO WAS L.A.'s GREATEST BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION ?

L.A.'s GREATEST BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION
It is generally conceded that Bert Colima, Fitzie Fitzpatrick, Enrique Bolanos, Art Aragon, Mando Ramos and Ruben Olivares were the biggest. In Colima's case it is impossible to get accurate figures and most of the numbers for Fitzpatrick are unavailable. When comparing the stats for the others remember Ramos and Olivares had the advantage of bigger indoor venues not available during the heydays of Bolanos and Aragon who proved their drawing power in outdoor shows and from the many thousands of fans who were turned away when they sold out the Olympic or Hollywood Legion Stadium.
Following are the Att. and receipts figures of the four, only bouts that drew $ 10,000. are listed :

ART ARAGON......................................ATT.............REC.
1/24/50-Mario Trigo, Olympic-W10.........7,500........$ 14,000
2/14/50-Enrique Bolanos, Olympic-KO12.10,400..........39,785
4/18/50-Guillermo Giminez, Olymp-KO2....9,109...........29,129
5/16/50-Tommy Campbell, Olymp-KO3....7,500...........16,558
6/6/50-Carlos Chavez, Olympic-L10......10,400...........32,210
7/8/50-Enrique Bolanos, Olympic-KO3.....9,500...........38,005
11/21/50-Carlos Chavez, Olympic-KO1....7,200...........12,864
7/24/51-Johnny Gonsalves, Olymp-W10...7,100..........16,358
8/28/51-Jimmy Carter, Olympic-W10......10,400..........47,833
11/14/51-Jimmy Carter, Olympic-L15.......7,251..........74,463
2/5/52-Manny Madrid, Olympic-KO 6.......7,384...........13,656
3/4/52-Lauro Salas, Olympic-W10.........10,400...........30,331
10/15/52-Phil Kim, Olympic-KO9............10,400...........49,244
1/29/53-Billy Graham, Olympic-L10........10,400...........47,964
6/26/53-Elmer Beltz, Olympic-KO1.........10,400...........41,415
10/2/53-Ramon Fuentes, Olympic-L10....10,400...........45,236
12/3/53-Danny Womber, Olympic-W10.....7,500...........20,217
2/18/54-Chuck Davey, Olympic-W10......10,400...........59,347
7/1/54-Vince Martinez, Gilmore St.-L10...17,158.........130,252
6/2/55-Don Jordon, Olympic-W10,,,,,,,,,,,10,400..........36,250
8/4/55-Joe Miceli, Olympic-L10...............9,536...........29,438
12/15/55-Don Jordon, Olympic-W10.........7,842..........25,111
2/7/56-Raym.Tiscareno,Hollywood-KO2.....5,500..........20,242
3/27/56-Dan Giovanelli Hollywood-KO9......5,100..........16,100
5/3/56-Jimmy Carter,Olympic-W10.........10,103...........44,247
8/29/56-Cisco Andrade, Gilmore-KO 9.....12,932...........93,800
3/15/58-Chico Vejar, Hollywood-W10.......6,100...........40,444
9/5/58-Carmen Basilio, Wrigley-LKO 8.....20,565.........236,521
1/31/59-Charley Sawyer,Hollywood-KO4...6,000..........18,500
4/25/59-Joe Miceli, Hollywood-L10..........5,800...........15,100
*seven Olympic bouts unlisted totaled $144,839 (Winkler). Basilio bout set receipts record for California. Attendence of 10,400 at Olympic is a sell-out...........................

ENRIQUE BOLANOS...................................ATT.........REC.
8/28/45-Chalky Wright,Olympic-L10............10,400....31,647
2/19/46-Chalky Wright,Olympic-W10...........10,400.............
4/30/46-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-LKO 8......18,400...108,101
1/21/47-Lulu Costantino,Olympic-KO7..........10,400.............
6/3/47-John Thomas,Wrigley Field-KO7........16,151....70,737
9/30/47-John Thomas,Olympic-KO4.............10,400....35,000
1/27/48-Julio Jiminez,Olympic-KO4..............10,400.....28,000
3/2/48-Tony Mar,Olympic-KO 8..................10,000..............
5/25/48-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-L15.........25,332....152,867
10/19/48-Johnny Williams,Olympic-KO7........10,400.....26,000
11/30/48-Tommy Campbell,Olympic-W12......10,200.....41,778
2/1/49-Bolton Ford,Olympic-KO8...............................21,869
3/8/49-John L. Davis,Olympic-W10...............9,000...............
7/21/49-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-LKO 4......18,999....108,247
11/15/49-Bernard Docusen,Olympic-L12.......10,400.....47,770
2/14/50-Art Aragon,Olympic-LKO 12............10,400.....39,785
7/18/50-Art Aragon,Olympic-LKO 3...............9,500.....38,005
9/12/50-Terry Young,Olympic-W10...............6,600.....13,326
10/17/50-Maxie Docusen,Olympic-W10..........7,600.....16,400
2/6/51-Eddie Chavez,Olympic-KO 5...........................12,442
6/22/51-Eddie Chavez,Hollywood-W12.......................20,643
7/10/51-Jimmy Carter,Olympic-LKO 7.............9,000....27,606
*list above for Bolanos is incomplete as many large gates have not been confirmed. Winkler once stated Bolanos sold out the Olympic a dozen times. Second bout with Ike Williams set the California receipts record.

MANDO RAMOS........................................ATT..........REC..
10/13/66-Allen Syers,Olympic-KO 5...............9,100.....17,196
1/17/67-Ramon Echavarria,Olympic-W10........9,800.....26,910
3/30/67-Pete Gonzalez,Olympic-W10.............9,700.....30,279
6/22/67-Len Kesey,Olympic-KO 5..................6,100.....22,400
7/6/67-Su Kang Il,Olympic-L10....................10,202.....49,899
9/14/67-Elisio Estrada,Olympic-KO 5 (co-1)...10,000.....65,239
10/5/67-Frankie Crawford,Olympic-L10..........10,400....55,452
2/1/68-Frankie Crawford,Olympic-W10............9,947....60,000
9/28/68-Carlos Teo Cruz,Coliseum-L15(co-2)..23,211..181,000
2/18/69-Carlos Teo Cruz,Sports Arena-KO11..14,183...140,732
10/4/69-Yoshiaki Numata,Sports Arena-KO6...15,646...161,047
3/3/70-Ismael Laguna,Sports Arena-LKO 9.....15,577...150,081
8/7/70-Sugar Ramos,Olympic-W10.................9,800.....91,650
12/10/70-Raul Rojas,Olympic-KO 6.................8,281.....54,441
9/30/71-Ruben Navarro,Olympic-W10.............8,319.....71,697
2/18/72-Pedro Carrasco,Sports Arena-W15....15,165...171,816
9/15/72-Chango Carmona,Ciliseum-LKO 8.......20,113...218,850
*(co-1)co feature with Rojas vs Kang. (co-2)co feature with Rojas vs Saijyo.

RUBEN OLIVARES.......................................ATT.........REC...
8/28/68-Bernabe Fernandez,Forum-KO3(co-1)14,245...142,139
3/17/69-Ernesto DeLaCruz,Forum-KO9............8,459.....44,772
5/23/69-Takao Sakurai, Forum-KO6..............12,226.....74,046
8/22/69-Lionel Rose,Forum-KO5.....(18,40 ...18,549,,,270,545
12/12/69-Allen Rudkin,Forum-KO 2................14,651..174,585
4/18/70-Chucho Castillo,Forum-W15.............18,762...281,840
10/16/70-Chucho Castillo,Forum-LKO 14........16,404...215,902
4/3/71-Chucho Castillo,Forum-W15..(18,141).18,456...254,155
8/23/71-Val Galeano,Forum-KO9 (co-2).........14,806...135,200
12/14/71-Jesus Pimintel,Forum-KO11 (co-3)...14,704...255,585
11/14/72-Rafael Herrera,Forum-L10 (co-4).....18,633..222,657
4/28/73-Walter Seeley,Forum-KO2 (co-5)......18,552..205,100
6/23/73-Bobby Chacon,Forum-KO 9..............15,100...175,540
3/4/74-Art Hafey,Forum-W12......................12,000....90,102
7/9/74-Zenzuke Utagawa,Forum-KO 7..........,11,000...117,670
11/23/74-A. Arguello,Forum-LKO 13.(13,45 ..14,313..186,210
6/20/75-Bobby Chacon,Forum-KO 2..............18,770..401,930
9/20/75-David Kotey,Forum-L15....................8,000....85,000
12/4/75-Danny Lopez,Forum-LKO7................,9,240...102,261
6/2/76-P. Lupakanete, Sports Arena-KO1........8,500...68,200
7/30/76-Fernando Cabanela,Sports Arena_W10.7,310...51,465
11/19/76-J. Cervantes,Sports Ar.-LKO6(co-6).10,465..125,525
8/20/77-Bobby Chacon,Forum-L10.....(6,360)...6,651....71,740
* (co-1)co-feature with Rose vs Medel,Castillo vs Armstrong. (co-2)co-feature with Napoles vs Josselin. (co-3)co-feature with Napoles vs Lewis. (co-4)co-feature with Pinder vs Castillo. (co-5)co-feature with Chacon vs Castillo. (co-6)co-feature with Canto vs Javierto. **Attendance numbers in parenthesis is from second source. Second and third sources give 6/20/75 Chacon bout receipts of $421,000 and $410,150.

OK - Who was L.A.'s greatest box-office attraction ???????

Guys, I made this list some time back of some of the fighters that I seen fight back in the day.

Billy Peacock, Johnny Ortega, Tommy Umeda, Gil Cadilli, Hank Aceves, Dave Gallardo, Rudy Garcia, Kenny Davis, Keeny Teran, Julian Velasquez, Juan Luis Campos, Frankie Campos, Baby Ortiz, Andy Escobar, Rudy Mendoza, Freddie(Babe)Herman, Al Arenas, Joey Dorando, Ramon Tiscareno, Manny Madrid, Frankie Belma, Joey Abasta, Mickey Northrup, Paul Armstead, Baby Ike, Al Cruz, Buddy Evatt, Ruben Salazar, Jose Luis Cotero, Bobby Why, Bobby Woods, Bobby Garaz, Alfredo Cota, Eddie Pace, Gil Velarde, Pete Aguirre, Baby Leroy, Manny Renteria, Jesse Fuentes, Harold(Baby Face)Jones, Ramon Fuentes, Paulino Montes, Elmer Beltz, Enriqure Bolanos, Archie Whitewater.

They box at the Legion Stadium, Ocean Park Arena, Olympic Aud. and so.gate Arena

kikibalt wrote:WHO WAS L.A.'s GREATEST BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION ?

L.A.'s GREATEST BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION
It is generally conceded that Bert Colima, Fitzie Fitzpatrick, Enrique Bolanos, Art Aragon, Mando Ramos and Ruben Olivares were the biggest. In Colima's case it is impossible to get accurate figures and most of the numbers for Fitzpatrick are unavailable. When comparing the stats for the others remember Ramos and Olivares had the advantage of bigger indoor venues not available during the heydays of Bolanos and Aragon who proved their drawing power in outdoor shows and from the many thousands of fans who were turned away when they sold out the Olympic or Hollywood Legion Stadium.
Following are the Att. and receipts figures of the four, only bouts that drew $ 10,000. are listed :

ART ARAGON......................................ATT.............REC.
1/24/50-Mario Trigo, Olympic-W10.........7,500........$ 14,000
2/14/50-Enrique Bolanos, Olympic-KO12.10,400..........39,785
4/18/50-Guillermo Giminez, Olymp-KO2....9,109...........29,129
5/16/50-Tommy Campbell, Olymp-KO3....7,500...........16,558
6/6/50-Carlos Chavez, Olympic-L10......10,400...........32,210
7/8/50-Enrique Bolanos, Olympic-KO3.....9,500...........38,005
11/21/50-Carlos Chavez, Olympic-KO1....7,200...........12,864
7/24/51-Johnny Gonsalves, Olymp-W10...7,100..........16,358
8/28/51-Jimmy Carter, Olympic-W10......10,400..........47,833
11/14/51-Jimmy Carter, Olympic-L15.......7,251..........74,463
2/5/52-Manny Madrid, Olympic-KO 6.......7,384...........13,656
3/4/52-Lauro Salas, Olympic-W10.........10,400...........30,331
10/15/52-Phil Kim, Olympic-KO9............10,400...........49,244
1/29/53-Billy Graham, Olympic-L10........10,400...........47,964
6/26/53-Elmer Beltz, Olympic-KO1.........10,400...........41,415
10/2/53-Ramon Fuentes, Olympic-L10....10,400...........45,236
12/3/53-Danny Womber, Olympic-W10.....7,500...........20,217
2/18/54-Chuck Davey, Olympic-W10......10,400...........59,347
7/1/54-Vince Martinez, Gilmore St.-L10...17,158.........130,252
6/2/55-Don Jordon, Olympic-W10,,,,,,,,,,,10,400..........36,250
8/4/55-Joe Miceli, Olympic-L10...............9,536...........29,438
12/15/55-Don Jordon, Olympic-W10.........7,842..........25,111
2/7/56-Raym.Tiscareno,Hollywood-KO2.....5,500..........20,242
3/27/56-Dan Giovanelli Hollywood-KO9......5,100..........16,100
5/3/56-Jimmy Carter,Olympic-W10.........10,103...........44,247
8/29/56-Cisco Andrade, Gilmore-KO 9.....12,932...........93,800
3/15/58-Chico Vejar, Hollywood-W10.......6,100...........40,444
9/5/58-Carmen Basilio, Wrigley-LKO 8.....20,565.........236,521
1/31/59-Charley Sawyer,Hollywood-KO4...6,000..........18,500
4/25/59-Joe Miceli, Hollywood-L10..........5,800...........15,100
*seven Olympic bouts unlisted totaled $144,839 (Winkler). Basilio bout set receipts record for California. Attendence of 10,400 at Olympic is a sell-out...........................

ENRIQUE BOLANOS...................................ATT.........REC.
8/28/45-Chalky Wright,Olympic-L10............10,400....31,647
2/19/46-Chalky Wright,Olympic-W10...........10,400.............
4/30/46-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-LKO 8......18,400...108,101
1/21/47-Lulu Costantino,Olympic-KO7..........10,400.............
6/3/47-John Thomas,Wrigley Field-KO7........16,151....70,737
9/30/47-John Thomas,Olympic-KO4.............10,400....35,000
1/27/48-Julio Jiminez,Olympic-KO4..............10,400.....28,000
3/2/48-Tony Mar,Olympic-KO 8..................10,000..............
5/25/48-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-L15.........25,332....152,867
10/19/48-Johnny Williams,Olympic-KO7........10,400.....26,000
11/30/48-Tommy Campbell,Olympic-W12......10,200.....41,778
2/1/49-Bolton Ford,Olympic-KO8...............................21,869
3/8/49-John L. Davis,Olympic-W10...............9,000...............
7/21/49-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-LKO 4......18,999....108,247
11/15/49-Bernard Docusen,Olympic-L12.......10,400.....47,770
2/14/50-Art Aragon,Olympic-LKO 12............10,400.....39,785
7/18/50-Art Aragon,Olympic-LKO 3...............9,500.....38,005
9/12/50-Terry Young,Olympic-W10...............6,600.....13,326
10/17/50-Maxie Docusen,Olympic-W10..........7,600.....16,400
2/6/51-Eddie Chavez,Olympic-KO 5...........................12,442
6/22/51-Eddie Chavez,Hollywood-W12.......................20,643
7/10/51-Jimmy Carter,Olympic-LKO 7.............9,000....27,606
*list above for Bolanos is incomplete as many large gates have not been confirmed. Winkler once stated Bolanos sold out the Olympic a dozen times. Second bout with Ike Williams set the California receipts record.

MANDO RAMOS........................................ATT..........REC..
10/13/66-Allen Syers,Olympic-KO 5...............9,100.....17,196
1/17/67-Ramon Echavarria,Olympic-W10........9,800.....26,910
3/30/67-Pete Gonzalez,Olympic-W10.............9,700.....30,279
6/22/67-Len Kesey,Olympic-KO 5..................6,100.....22,400
7/6/67-Su Kang Il,Olympic-L10....................10,202.....49,899
9/14/67-Elisio Estrada,Olympic-KO 5 (co-1)...10,000.....65,239
10/5/67-Frankie Crawford,Olympic-L10..........10,400....55,452
2/1/68-Frankie Crawford,Olympic-W10............9,947....60,000
9/28/68-Carlos Teo Cruz,Coliseum-L15(co-2)..23,211..181,000
2/18/69-Carlos Teo Cruz,Sports Arena-KO11..14,183...140,732
10/4/69-Yoshiaki Numata,Sports Arena-KO6...15,646...161,047
3/3/70-Ismael Laguna,Sports Arena-LKO 9.....15,577...150,081
8/7/70-Sugar Ramos,Olympic-W10.................9,800.....91,650
12/10/70-Raul Rojas,Olympic-KO 6.................8,281.....54,441
9/30/71-Ruben Navarro,Olympic-W10.............8,319.....71,697
2/18/72-Pedro Carrasco,Sports Arena-W15....15,165...171,816
9/15/72-Chango Carmona,Ciliseum-LKO 8.......20,113...218,850
*(co-1)co feature with Rojas vs Kang. (co-2)co feature with Rojas vs Saijyo.

RUBEN OLIVARES.......................................ATT.........REC...
8/28/68-Bernabe Fernandez,Forum-KO3(co-1)14,245...142,139
3/17/69-Ernesto DeLaCruz,Forum-KO9............8,459.....44,772
5/23/69-Takao Sakurai, Forum-KO6..............12,226.....74,046
8/22/69-Lionel Rose,Forum-KO5.....(18,40 ...18,549,,,270,545
12/12/69-Allen Rudkin,Forum-KO 2................14,651..174,585
4/18/70-Chucho Castillo,Forum-W15.............18,762...281,840
10/16/70-Chucho Castillo,Forum-LKO 14........16,404...215,902
4/3/71-Chucho Castillo,Forum-W15..(18,141).18,456...254,155
8/23/71-Val Galeano,Forum-KO9 (co-2).........14,806...135,200
12/14/71-Jesus Pimintel,Forum-KO11 (co-3)...14,704...255,585
11/14/72-Rafael Herrera,Forum-L10 (co-4).....18,633..222,657
4/28/73-Walter Seeley,Forum-KO2 (co-5)......18,552..205,100
6/23/73-Bobby Chacon,Forum-KO 9..............15,100...175,540
3/4/74-Art Hafey,Forum-W12......................12,000....90,102
7/9/74-Zenzuke Utagawa,Forum-KO 7..........,11,000...117,670
11/23/74-A. Arguello,Forum-LKO 13.(13,45 ..14,313..186,210
6/20/75-Bobby Chacon,Forum-KO 2..............18,770..401,930
9/20/75-David Kotey,Forum-L15....................8,000....85,000
12/4/75-Danny Lopez,Forum-LKO7................,9,240...102,261
6/2/76-P. Lupakanete, Sports Arena-KO1........8,500...68,200
7/30/76-Fernando Cabanela,Sports Arena_W10.7,310...51,465
11/19/76-J. Cervantes,Sports Ar.-LKO6(co-6).10,465..125,525
8/20/77-Bobby Chacon,Forum-L10.....(6,360)...6,651....71,740
* (co-1)co-feature with Rose vs Medel,Castillo vs Armstrong. (co-2)co-feature with Napoles vs Josselin. (co-3)co-feature with Napoles vs Lewis. (co-4)co-feature with Pinder vs Castillo. (co-5)co-feature with Chacon vs Castillo. (co-6)co-feature with Canto vs Javierto. **Attendance numbers in parenthesis is from second source. Second and third sources give 6/20/75 Chacon bout receipts of $421,000 and $410,150.

OK - Who was L.A.'s greatest box-office attraction ???????

Good question. The value of the dollar didn't fluctuate that much between the time these boxers fought, at least not until the later sixties, however, that also must be a consideration. A "sold out" house, is a sold out house, regardless of the era. In what sense do we evaluate "greatest box-office attraction"? Just curious. I know my method of evaluation, but it is harder to validate as it deals in intangables, more so than gate receipts. I know this, the "FEELING" that Mando Ramos generated in his historically brief career, could not have been any less than generated by a Bolanos or Aragon, during longer careers. And Olivares, although not an L.A. product, man could he generate a lot of excitment and anticipation, not to mention dollars.

-Rick

kikibalt wrote:Guys, I made this list some time back of some of the fighters that I seen fight back in the day.

Billy Peacock, Johnny Ortega, Tommy Umeda, Gil Cadilli, Hank Aceves, Dave Gallardo, Rudy Garcia, Kenny Davis, Keeny Teran, Julian Velasquez, Juan Luis Campos, Frankie Campos, Baby Ortiz, Andy Escobar, Rudy Mendoza, Freddie(Babe)Herman, Al Arenas, Joey Dorando, Ramon Tiscareno, Manny Madrid, Frankie Belma, Joey Abasta, Mickey Northrup, Paul Armstead, Baby Ike, Al Cruz, Buddy Evatt, Ruben Salazar, Jose Luis Cotero, Bobby Why, Bobby Woods, Bobby Garaz, Alfredo Cota, Eddie Pace, Gil Velarde, Pete Aguirre, Baby Leroy, Manny Renteria, Jesse Fuentes, Harold(Baby Face)Jones, Ramon Fuentes, Paulino Montes, Elmer Beltz, Enriqure Bolanos, Archie Whitewater.

They box at the Legion Stadium, Ocean Park Arena, Olympic Aud. and so.gate Arena

Frank,
I go back to school tomorrow. That kid whose uncle is Jose Luis Cotero is coming back. I got to get on his case to get his number for you.

Rick,

I don't put to much stock on those numbers, especially the ones from the Olympic, the Aragon/Carter title fight for instance list 7,251 fans and $74,462 gate, I was there that night and the place was pack to the rafters, over 10,400 fans for sure, there were people outside that couldn't get in, the reason that those low numbers were put out was that the fighters were working on a % of the gate, so the lower the numbers, the less they had to pay the fighters.

I know it happened to us!!...... :x

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Guys, I made this list some time back of some of the fighters that I seen fight back in the day.

Billy Peacock, Johnny Ortega, Tommy Umeda, Gil Cadilli, Hank Aceves, Dave Gallardo, Rudy Garcia, Kenny Davis, Keeny Teran, Julian Velasquez, Juan Luis Campos, Frankie Campos, Baby Ortiz, Andy Escobar, Rudy Mendoza, Freddie(Babe)Herman, Al Arenas, Joey Dorando, Ramon Tiscareno, Manny Madrid, Frankie Belma, Joey Abasta, Mickey Northrup, Paul Armstead, Baby Ike, Al Cruz, Buddy Evatt, Ruben Salazar, Jose Luis Cotero, Bobby Why, Bobby Woods, Bobby Garaz, Alfredo Cota, Eddie Pace, Gil Velarde, Pete Aguirre, Baby Leroy, Manny Renteria, Jesse Fuentes, Harold(Baby Face)Jones, Ramon Fuentes, Paulino Montes, Elmer Beltz, Enriqure Bolanos, Archie Whitewater.

They box at the Legion Stadium, Ocean Park Arena, Olympic Aud. and so.gate Arena

Frank,
I go back to school tomorrow. That kid whose uncle is Jose Luis Cotero is coming back. I got to get on his case to get his number for you.

diego, make sure you get the #, then we can talk to J.L.Cotero.

kikibalt wrote:Tuesday, Oct.24,1989, the last day the L.A. Herald Examiner was in print

Tremendous article Frank. Here's my recollection of Maromero.
THE TUMBLER

I remember when he started out. i thought the aficianados would laugh at him. The baggy pants. The somersaults. The clowning around. Oh,they laughed,but not at him. He was performing like he did in his abuelita's circus in Mexicali. Ever been to the Mexican Circus? Little family run circuses. They're all over Mexico. When they come to town they get a pretty good business. It doesn't cost much to go. The kids get to see a lion or a tiger. The trapeze artists. And of course,the clowns. I used to take my kids when we lived in TJ. What I liked too was the circus was in a tent. An intamacy that you don't get when Ringling Brothers is at Madison Square Garden. Maybe we saw Maromero. Can't tell with all the grease paint. Churros and popcorn. Flautas and limonada.Cotton Candy. Get your picture taken and they put it in one of those little cone shaped magnifying glasses. Noisy,crowded with kids. The circus people are a good lot. That's what they want to do. Perform and make people happy.

Maromero was on top for a while. He was a Champ of some sorts. He didn't want to be the killer like Chavez. He wanted to perform. Be the clown like in his abuelita's circus in Mexicali. Entertain the poor people.Make people laugh. He did that for the Mexican people.

The last time I saw Maromero he was drunk. In a club, drunk and bloated. He was having the time of his life. There was a big crowd around him. It was like he was performing again. Mexico had enough "killers" in the ring. Maromero made them laugh. But remember they were never laughing at him.

kikibalt wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Guys, I made this list some time back of some of the fighters that I seen fight back in the day.

Billy Peacock, Johnny Ortega, Tommy Umeda, Gil Cadilli, Hank Aceves, Dave Gallardo, Rudy Garcia, Kenny Davis, Keeny Teran, Julian Velasquez, Juan Luis Campos, Frankie Campos, Baby Ortiz, Andy Escobar, Rudy Mendoza, Freddie(Babe)Herman, Al Arenas, Joey Dorando, Ramon Tiscareno, Manny Madrid, Frankie Belma, Joey Abasta, Mickey Northrup, Paul Armstead, Baby Ike, Al Cruz, Buddy Evatt, Ruben Salazar, Jose Luis Cotero, Bobby Why, Bobby Woods, Bobby Garaz, Alfredo Cota, Eddie Pace, Gil Velarde, Pete Aguirre, Baby Leroy, Manny Renteria, Jesse Fuentes, Harold(Baby Face)Jones, Ramon Fuentes, Paulino Montes, Elmer Beltz, Enriqure Bolanos, Archie Whitewater.

They box at the Legion Stadium, Ocean Park Arena, Olympic Aud. and so.gate Arena

Frank,
I go back to school tomorrow. That kid whose uncle is Jose Luis Cotero is coming back. I got to get on his case to get his number for you.

diego, make sure you get the #, then we can talk to J.L.Cotero.

ABSOLUTAMENTE AMIGO

Boxrec is wrong. Hawkins was not from San Diego, only fought there a couple times early in his career. He was born in Alabama, came to Los Angeles as a young boy and settled in East L.A. with his mother, grandmother and unlce (he never knew his father). It was in ELA that Hawkins (crippled from an auto accident) began to box at a local church. His mother went to work at a West L.A. hospital and was spending 3 hours daily commuting to work by bus. After a couple years, she moved the family to Watts to be closer to work. Hawkins new home was the Imperial Courts Housing Project, one of the most dangerous in Los Angeles, as it is to this day. I know that his pro debut was in S.D. but that was never his home. Dwight Hawkins is a icon in the L.A. City School System, and has dedictaed his life to ridding L.A. of it's growing gang infestation. Dwight is an LA guy thru and thru. I know this is a small error, and perhaps unimportant to 99.9% of the world, but it's an inaccuracy that I'm making Boxrec aware of, and one that needs to be changed. By the way, I am a BIG fan of Boxrec and it's staff. They have provided the World's boxing community with a valuable research device, one that is of great value to guys such as myself, not to mention this forum, which is a safe place for me to hang out.

Thanks Boxrec. and please feel free to contact me if you should ever require validation of anything I post. We won't go into my own inaccurate record, because it was far from great, anyway. However, missing is the majority of my wins which took place between 1974-76.

-Rick Farris[/quote]

Rick,
I know that you said that the inaccuracy of your record doesn't matter to anyone but you but I disagree, you, Frank, Dago, raylawpc, Randy and I'll throw myself in there too & all the other boxing nuts on this site, we were involved in boxing in some way whether it was at the level that Frank reached or you & Randy who fought as pros or for me and my lousy 12 amature fights. The point I am getting to is that we love to look at the programs Frank is posting & go back to look at some of the results & there are times that we know something is missing & we are the ones who love it so much should post a request for a change on this forum so in the future it will all come together. My father & I are going to be helping the daughter of a fighter out of S.F. Lew Powell who fought in the early 1900s, currently only four fights showing & she has given us his scrap book which shows over 70 fights. Every time we make a correction we make Boxrec, IBRO and any other boxing site better if not for everyone than for us. If you want I will be the go to guy, in fact I would love to, if you guys and the other guys whos names I left off here want to you can send me a correction, I would gladly do some research and get the correction posted. I would love to start with your record Rick, you of all people on the site should have his record correct, next is you Randy...lets do it! I'm serious! PM me and get me started!!!
Bobbin & Weavin
Bruce Smith

Bobbin & Weavin wrote:Rick
I know that you said that the inaccuracy of your record doesn't matter to anyone but you but I disagree, you, Frank, Dago, raylawpc, Randy and I'll throw myself in there too & all the other boxing nuts on this site, we were involved in boxing in some way whether it was at the level that Frank reached or you & Randy who fought as pros or for me and my lousy 12 amature fights. The point I am getting to is that we love to look at the programs Frank is posting & go back to look at some of the results & there are times that we know something is missing & we are the ones who love it so much should post a request for a change on this forum so in the future it will all come together. My father & I are going to be helping the daughter of a fighter out of S.F. Lew Powell who fought in the early 1900s, currently only four fights showing & she has given us his scrap book which shows over 70 fights. Every time we make a correction we make Boxrec, IBRO and any other boxing site better if not for everyone than for us. If you want I will be the go to guy, in fact I would love to, if you guys and the other guys whos names I left off here want to you can send me a correction, I would gladly do some research and get the correction posted. I would love to start with your record Rick, you of all people on the site should have his record correct, next is you Randy...lets do it! I'm serious! PM me and get me started!!!
Bobbin & Weavin
Bruce Smith

Bruce,

My son bobby had six pro fights, won but one by ko, his last fight he won by UD, yet BoxRec only show him with 2 fight.

Bobby had his first pro fight on this card, yet it not on his record
2-8-1985

Stateline, Nevada, United States
Jahid Kareem W Darryl Robinson PTS 10 10
Brett Summers W Joey Olivera PTS 10 10
Jesse Lopez W Otis Rodgers PTS 4 4
Jesse Benavides W Agustin Pino Soberanes PTS 4 4
Michael Nunn W Ismael Templos KO 4

Mickey Rooney and Art Aragon

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:WHO WAS L.A.'s GREATEST BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION ?

L.A.'s GREATEST BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION
It is generally conceded that Bert Colima, Fitzie Fitzpatrick, Enrique Bolanos, Art Aragon, Mando Ramos and Ruben Olivares were the biggest. In Colima's case it is impossible to get accurate figures and most of the numbers for Fitzpatrick are unavailable. When comparing the stats for the others remember Ramos and Olivares had the advantage of bigger indoor venues not available during the heydays of Bolanos and Aragon who proved their drawing power in outdoor shows and from the many thousands of fans who were turned away when they sold out the Olympic or Hollywood Legion Stadium.
Following are the Att. and receipts figures of the four, only bouts that drew $ 10,000. are listed :

ART ARAGON......................................ATT.............REC.
1/24/50-Mario Trigo, Olympic-W10.........7,500........$ 14,000
2/14/50-Enrique Bolanos, Olympic-KO12.10,400..........39,785
4/18/50-Guillermo Giminez, Olymp-KO2....9,109...........29,129
5/16/50-Tommy Campbell, Olymp-KO3....7,500...........16,558
6/6/50-Carlos Chavez, Olympic-L10......10,400...........32,210
7/8/50-Enrique Bolanos, Olympic-KO3.....9,500...........38,005
11/21/50-Carlos Chavez, Olympic-KO1....7,200...........12,864
7/24/51-Johnny Gonsalves, Olymp-W10...7,100..........16,358
8/28/51-Jimmy Carter, Olympic-W10......10,400..........47,833
11/14/51-Jimmy Carter, Olympic-L15.......7,251..........74,463
2/5/52-Manny Madrid, Olympic-KO 6.......7,384...........13,656
3/4/52-Lauro Salas, Olympic-W10.........10,400...........30,331
10/15/52-Phil Kim, Olympic-KO9............10,400...........49,244
1/29/53-Billy Graham, Olympic-L10........10,400...........47,964
6/26/53-Elmer Beltz, Olympic-KO1.........10,400...........41,415
10/2/53-Ramon Fuentes, Olympic-L10....10,400...........45,236
12/3/53-Danny Womber, Olympic-W10.....7,500...........20,217
2/18/54-Chuck Davey, Olympic-W10......10,400...........59,347
7/1/54-Vince Martinez, Gilmore St.-L10...17,158.........130,252
6/2/55-Don Jordon, Olympic-W10,,,,,,,,,,,10,400..........36,250
8/4/55-Joe Miceli, Olympic-L10...............9,536...........29,438
12/15/55-Don Jordon, Olympic-W10.........7,842..........25,111
2/7/56-Raym.Tiscareno,Hollywood-KO2.....5,500..........20,242
3/27/56-Dan Giovanelli Hollywood-KO9......5,100..........16,100
5/3/56-Jimmy Carter,Olympic-W10.........10,103...........44,247
8/29/56-Cisco Andrade, Gilmore-KO 9.....12,932...........93,800
3/15/58-Chico Vejar, Hollywood-W10.......6,100...........40,444
9/5/58-Carmen Basilio, Wrigley-LKO 8.....20,565.........236,521
1/31/59-Charley Sawyer,Hollywood-KO4...6,000..........18,500
4/25/59-Joe Miceli, Hollywood-L10..........5,800...........15,100
*seven Olympic bouts unlisted totaled $144,839 (Winkler). Basilio bout set receipts record for California. Attendence of 10,400 at Olympic is a sell-out...........................

ENRIQUE BOLANOS...................................ATT.........REC.
8/28/45-Chalky Wright,Olympic-L10............10,400....31,647
2/19/46-Chalky Wright,Olympic-W10...........10,400.............
4/30/46-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-LKO 8......18,400...108,101
1/21/47-Lulu Costantino,Olympic-KO7..........10,400.............
6/3/47-John Thomas,Wrigley Field-KO7........16,151....70,737
9/30/47-John Thomas,Olympic-KO4.............10,400....35,000
1/27/48-Julio Jiminez,Olympic-KO4..............10,400.....28,000
3/2/48-Tony Mar,Olympic-KO 8..................10,000..............
5/25/48-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-L15.........25,332....152,867
10/19/48-Johnny Williams,Olympic-KO7........10,400.....26,000
11/30/48-Tommy Campbell,Olympic-W12......10,200.....41,778
2/1/49-Bolton Ford,Olympic-KO8...............................21,869
3/8/49-John L. Davis,Olympic-W10...............9,000...............
7/21/49-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-LKO 4......18,999....108,247
11/15/49-Bernard Docusen,Olympic-L12.......10,400.....47,770
2/14/50-Art Aragon,Olympic-LKO 12............10,400.....39,785
7/18/50-Art Aragon,Olympic-LKO 3...............9,500.....38,005
9/12/50-Terry Young,Olympic-W10...............6,600.....13,326
10/17/50-Maxie Docusen,Olympic-W10..........7,600.....16,400
2/6/51-Eddie Chavez,Olympic-KO 5...........................12,442
6/22/51-Eddie Chavez,Hollywood-W12.......................20,643
7/10/51-Jimmy Carter,Olympic-LKO 7.............9,000....27,606
*list above for Bolanos is incomplete as many large gates have not been confirmed. Winkler once stated Bolanos sold out the Olympic a dozen times. Second bout with Ike Williams set the California receipts record.

MANDO RAMOS........................................ATT..........REC..
10/13/66-Allen Syers,Olympic-KO 5...............9,100.....17,196
1/17/67-Ramon Echavarria,Olympic-W10........9,800.....26,910
3/30/67-Pete Gonzalez,Olympic-W10.............9,700.....30,279
6/22/67-Len Kesey,Olympic-KO 5..................6,100.....22,400
7/6/67-Su Kang Il,Olympic-L10....................10,202.....49,899
9/14/67-Elisio Estrada,Olympic-KO 5 (co-1)...10,000.....65,239
10/5/67-Frankie Crawford,Olympic-L10..........10,400....55,452
2/1/68-Frankie Crawford,Olympic-W10............9,947....60,000
9/28/68-Carlos Teo Cruz,Coliseum-L15(co-2)..23,211..181,000
2/18/69-Carlos Teo Cruz,Sports Arena-KO11..14,183...140,732
10/4/69-Yoshiaki Numata,Sports Arena-KO6...15,646...161,047
3/3/70-Ismael Laguna,Sports Arena-LKO 9.....15,577...150,081
8/7/70-Sugar Ramos,Olympic-W10.................9,800.....91,650
12/10/70-Raul Rojas,Olympic-KO 6.................8,281.....54,441
9/30/71-Ruben Navarro,Olympic-W10.............8,319.....71,697
2/18/72-Pedro Carrasco,Sports Arena-W15....15,165...171,816
9/15/72-Chango Carmona,Ciliseum-LKO 8.......20,113...218,850
*(co-1)co feature with Rojas vs Kang. (co-2)co feature with Rojas vs Saijyo.

RUBEN OLIVARES.......................................ATT.........REC...
8/28/68-Bernabe Fernandez,Forum-KO3(co-1)14,245...142,139
3/17/69-Ernesto DeLaCruz,Forum-KO9............8,459.....44,772
5/23/69-Takao Sakurai, Forum-KO6..............12,226.....74,046
8/22/69-Lionel Rose,Forum-KO5.....(18,40 ...18,549,,,270,545
12/12/69-Allen Rudkin,Forum-KO 2................14,651..174,585
4/18/70-Chucho Castillo,Forum-W15.............18,762...281,840
10/16/70-Chucho Castillo,Forum-LKO 14........16,404...215,902
4/3/71-Chucho Castillo,Forum-W15..(18,141).18,456...254,155
8/23/71-Val Galeano,Forum-KO9 (co-2).........14,806...135,200
12/14/71-Jesus Pimintel,Forum-KO11 (co-3)...14,704...255,585
11/14/72-Rafael Herrera,Forum-L10 (co-4).....18,633..222,657
4/28/73-Walter Seeley,Forum-KO2 (co-5)......18,552..205,100
6/23/73-Bobby Chacon,Forum-KO 9..............15,100...175,540
3/4/74-Art Hafey,Forum-W12......................12,000....90,102
7/9/74-Zenzuke Utagawa,Forum-KO 7..........,11,000...117,670
11/23/74-A. Arguello,Forum-LKO 13.(13,45 ..14,313..186,210
6/20/75-Bobby Chacon,Forum-KO 2..............18,770..401,930
9/20/75-David Kotey,Forum-L15....................8,000....85,000
12/4/75-Danny Lopez,Forum-LKO7................,9,240...102,261
6/2/76-P. Lupakanete, Sports Arena-KO1........8,500...68,200
7/30/76-Fernando Cabanela,Sports Arena_W10.7,310...51,465
11/19/76-J. Cervantes,Sports Ar.-LKO6(co-6).10,465..125,525
8/20/77-Bobby Chacon,Forum-L10.....(6,360)...6,651....71,740
* (co-1)co-feature with Rose vs Medel,Castillo vs Armstrong. (co-2)co-feature with Napoles vs Josselin. (co-3)co-feature with Napoles vs Lewis. (co-4)co-feature with Pinder vs Castillo. (co-5)co-feature with Chacon vs Castillo. (co-6)co-feature with Canto vs Javierto. **Attendance numbers in parenthesis is from second source. Second and third sources give 6/20/75 Chacon bout receipts of $421,000 and $410,150.

OK - Who was L.A.'s greatest box-office attraction ???????

Good question. The value of the dollar didn't fluctuate that much between the time these boxers fought, at least not until the later sixties, however, that also must be a consideration. A "sold out" house, is a sold out house, regardless of the era. In what sense do we evaluate "greatest box-office attraction"? Just curious. I know my method of evaluation, but it is harder to validate as it deals in intangables, more so than gate receipts. I know this, the "FEELING" that Mando Ramos generated in his historically brief career, could not have been any less than generated by a Bolanos or Aragon, during longer careers. And Olivares, although not an L.A. product, man could he generate a lot of excitment and anticipation, not to mention dollars.

-Rick

Rick, a dollar in 1945 - the earliest year Frank listed - was worth $3.37 in 1977 - the last year listed. This is based on the Consumer Price Index. Other indicators are:

In 1977, $1.00 from 1945 is worth:
$3.42 using the GDP deflator
$5.40 using the value of consumer bundle
$6.33 using the unskilled wage
$5.78 using the nominal GDP per capita
$9.10 using the relative share of GDP

GDP = Gross Domestic Product.

You can do these calculations at the following site:

http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

kikibalt wrote:Rick,

I don't put to much stock on those numbers, especially the ones from the Olympic, the Aragon/Carter title fight for instance list 7,251 fans and $74,462 gate, I was there that night and the place was pack to the rafters, over 10,400 fans for sure, there were people outside that couldn't get in, the reason that those low numbers were put out was that the fighters were working on a % of the gate, so the lower the numbers, the less they had to pay the fighters.

I know it happened to us!!...... :x

It happened to all the guys who fought mains at the Olympic and sold out the house. Armando Muniz was another who bitched about Aileen Eaton's accounting. As you say, numbers are meaningless, all I go by is the boxer's ability to excite fans in such a way that they are never forgotten, and that when guys like us recount our memories, we still get that chill of excitement when we share them. Some fighters are great in the ring, they win fights, titles, etc. and then there are those who have an undeniable charisma, guys like you listed and, of course, Mando Ramos. Mando had that "L.A. Charisma" that guys like DeLaHoya and today's group lack. Oscar is box-office gold today, no doubt, but he doesn't leave his audience with clean sense of energy that a Bolanos, Aragon, or Ramos gave us. Today, it's all about the buck. In the old days, money was a big factor as well, but there was also an honor that is lacking in today's world. We here all know and understand exactly what I'm trying to say.

-Rick

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:WHO WAS L.A.'s GREATEST BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION ?

L.A.'s GREATEST BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION
It is generally conceded that Bert Colima, Fitzie Fitzpatrick, Enrique Bolanos, Art Aragon, Mando Ramos and Ruben Olivares were the biggest. In Colima's case it is impossible to get accurate figures and most of the numbers for Fitzpatrick are unavailable. When comparing the stats for the others remember Ramos and Olivares had the advantage of bigger indoor venues not available during the heydays of Bolanos and Aragon who proved their drawing power in outdoor shows and from the many thousands of fans who were turned away when they sold out the Olympic or Hollywood Legion Stadium.
Following are the Att. and receipts figures of the four, only bouts that drew $ 10,000. are listed :

ART ARAGON......................................ATT.............REC.
1/24/50-Mario Trigo, Olympic-W10.........7,500........$ 14,000
2/14/50-Enrique Bolanos, Olympic-KO12.10,400..........39,785
4/18/50-Guillermo Giminez, Olymp-KO2....9,109...........29,129
5/16/50-Tommy Campbell, Olymp-KO3....7,500...........16,558
6/6/50-Carlos Chavez, Olympic-L10......10,400...........32,210
7/8/50-Enrique Bolanos, Olympic-KO3.....9,500...........38,005
11/21/50-Carlos Chavez, Olympic-KO1....7,200...........12,864
7/24/51-Johnny Gonsalves, Olymp-W10...7,100..........16,358
8/28/51-Jimmy Carter, Olympic-W10......10,400..........47,833
11/14/51-Jimmy Carter, Olympic-L15.......7,251..........74,463
2/5/52-Manny Madrid, Olympic-KO 6.......7,384...........13,656
3/4/52-Lauro Salas, Olympic-W10.........10,400...........30,331
10/15/52-Phil Kim, Olympic-KO9............10,400...........49,244
1/29/53-Billy Graham, Olympic-L10........10,400...........47,964
6/26/53-Elmer Beltz, Olympic-KO1.........10,400...........41,415
10/2/53-Ramon Fuentes, Olympic-L10....10,400...........45,236
12/3/53-Danny Womber, Olympic-W10.....7,500...........20,217
2/18/54-Chuck Davey, Olympic-W10......10,400...........59,347
7/1/54-Vince Martinez, Gilmore St.-L10...17,158.........130,252
6/2/55-Don Jordon, Olympic-W10,,,,,,,,,,,10,400..........36,250
8/4/55-Joe Miceli, Olympic-L10...............9,536...........29,438
12/15/55-Don Jordon, Olympic-W10.........7,842..........25,111
2/7/56-Raym.Tiscareno,Hollywood-KO2.....5,500..........20,242
3/27/56-Dan Giovanelli Hollywood-KO9......5,100..........16,100
5/3/56-Jimmy Carter,Olympic-W10.........10,103...........44,247
8/29/56-Cisco Andrade, Gilmore-KO 9.....12,932...........93,800
3/15/58-Chico Vejar, Hollywood-W10.......6,100...........40,444
9/5/58-Carmen Basilio, Wrigley-LKO 8.....20,565.........236,521
1/31/59-Charley Sawyer,Hollywood-KO4...6,000..........18,500
4/25/59-Joe Miceli, Hollywood-L10..........5,800...........15,100
*seven Olympic bouts unlisted totaled $144,839 (Winkler). Basilio bout set receipts record for California. Attendence of 10,400 at Olympic is a sell-out...........................

ENRIQUE BOLANOS...................................ATT.........REC.
8/28/45-Chalky Wright,Olympic-L10............10,400....31,647
2/19/46-Chalky Wright,Olympic-W10...........10,400.............
4/30/46-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-LKO 8......18,400...108,101
1/21/47-Lulu Costantino,Olympic-KO7..........10,400.............
6/3/47-John Thomas,Wrigley Field-KO7........16,151....70,737
9/30/47-John Thomas,Olympic-KO4.............10,400....35,000
1/27/48-Julio Jiminez,Olympic-KO4..............10,400.....28,000
3/2/48-Tony Mar,Olympic-KO 8..................10,000..............
5/25/48-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-L15.........25,332....152,867
10/19/48-Johnny Williams,Olympic-KO7........10,400.....26,000
11/30/48-Tommy Campbell,Olympic-W12......10,200.....41,778
2/1/49-Bolton Ford,Olympic-KO8...............................21,869
3/8/49-John L. Davis,Olympic-W10...............9,000...............
7/21/49-Ike Williams,Wrigley Field-LKO 4......18,999....108,247
11/15/49-Bernard Docusen,Olympic-L12.......10,400.....47,770
2/14/50-Art Aragon,Olympic-LKO 12............10,400.....39,785
7/18/50-Art Aragon,Olympic-LKO 3...............9,500.....38,005
9/12/50-Terry Young,Olympic-W10...............6,600.....13,326
10/17/50-Maxie Docusen,Olympic-W10..........7,600.....16,400
2/6/51-Eddie Chavez,Olympic-KO 5...........................12,442
6/22/51-Eddie Chavez,Hollywood-W12.......................20,643
7/10/51-Jimmy Carter,Olympic-LKO 7.............9,000....27,606
*list above for Bolanos is incomplete as many large gates have not been confirmed. Winkler once stated Bolanos sold out the Olympic a dozen times. Second bout with Ike Williams set the California receipts record.

MANDO RAMOS........................................ATT..........REC..
10/13/66-Allen Syers,Olympic-KO 5...............9,100.....17,196
1/17/67-Ramon Echavarria,Olympic-W10........9,800.....26,910
3/30/67-Pete Gonzalez,Olympic-W10.............9,700.....30,279
6/22/67-Len Kesey,Olympic-KO 5..................6,100.....22,400
7/6/67-Su Kang Il,Olympic-L10....................10,202.....49,899
9/14/67-Elisio Estrada,Olympic-KO 5 (co-1)...10,000.....65,239
10/5/67-Frankie Crawford,Olympic-L10..........10,400....55,452
2/1/68-Frankie Crawford,Olympic-W10............9,947....60,000
9/28/68-Carlos Teo Cruz,Coliseum-L15(co-2)..23,211..181,000
2/18/69-Carlos Teo Cruz,Sports Arena-KO11..14,183...140,732
10/4/69-Yoshiaki Numata,Sports Arena-KO6...15,646...161,047
3/3/70-Ismael Laguna,Sports Arena-LKO 9.....15,577...150,081
8/7/70-Sugar Ramos,Olympic-W10.................9,800.....91,650
12/10/70-Raul Rojas,Olympic-KO 6.................8,281.....54,441
9/30/71-Ruben Navarro,Olympic-W10.............8,319.....71,697
2/18/72-Pedro Carrasco,Sports Arena-W15....15,165...171,816
9/15/72-Chango Carmona,Ciliseum-LKO 8.......20,113...218,850
*(co-1)co feature with Rojas vs Kang. (co-2)co feature with Rojas vs Saijyo.

RUBEN OLIVARES.......................................ATT.........REC...
8/28/68-Bernabe Fernandez,Forum-KO3(co-1)14,245...142,139
3/17/69-Ernesto DeLaCruz,Forum-KO9............8,459.....44,772
5/23/69-Takao Sakurai, Forum-KO6..............12,226.....74,046
8/22/69-Lionel Rose,Forum-KO5.....(18,40 ...18,549,,,270,545
12/12/69-Allen Rudkin,Forum-KO 2................14,651..174,585
4/18/70-Chucho Castillo,Forum-W15.............18,762...281,840
10/16/70-Chucho Castillo,Forum-LKO 14........16,404...215,902
4/3/71-Chucho Castillo,Forum-W15..(18,141).18,456...254,155
8/23/71-Val Galeano,Forum-KO9 (co-2).........14,806...135,200
12/14/71-Jesus Pimintel,Forum-KO11 (co-3)...14,704...255,585
11/14/72-Rafael Herrera,Forum-L10 (co-4).....18,633..222,657
4/28/73-Walter Seeley,Forum-KO2 (co-5)......18,552..205,100
6/23/73-Bobby Chacon,Forum-KO 9..............15,100...175,540
3/4/74-Art Hafey,Forum-W12......................12,000....90,102
7/9/74-Zenzuke Utagawa,Forum-KO 7..........,11,000...117,670
11/23/74-A. Arguello,Forum-LKO 13.(13,45 ..14,313..186,210
6/20/75-Bobby Chacon,Forum-KO 2..............18,770..401,930
9/20/75-David Kotey,Forum-L15....................8,000....85,000
12/4/75-Danny Lopez,Forum-LKO7................,9,240...102,261
6/2/76-P. Lupakanete, Sports Arena-KO1........8,500...68,200
7/30/76-Fernando Cabanela,Sports Arena_W10.7,310...51,465
11/19/76-J. Cervantes,Sports Ar.-LKO6(co-6).10,465..125,525
8/20/77-Bobby Chacon,Forum-L10.....(6,360)...6,651....71,740
* (co-1)co-feature with Rose vs Medel,Castillo vs Armstrong. (co-2)co-feature with Napoles vs Josselin. (co-3)co-feature with Napoles vs Lewis. (co-4)co-feature with Pinder vs Castillo. (co-5)co-feature with Chacon vs Castillo. (co-6)co-feature with Canto vs Javierto. **Attendance numbers in parenthesis is from second source. Second and third sources give 6/20/75 Chacon bout receipts of $421,000 and $410,150.

OK - Who was L.A.'s greatest box-office attraction ???????

Good question. The value of the dollar didn't fluctuate that much between the time these boxers fought, at least not until the later sixties, however, that also must be a consideration. A "sold out" house, is a sold out house, regardless of the era. In what sense do we evaluate "greatest box-office attraction"? Just curious. I know my method of evaluation, but it is harder to validate as it deals in intangables, more so than gate receipts. I know this, the "FEELING" that Mando Ramos generated in his historically brief career, could not have been any less than generated by a Bolanos or Aragon, during longer careers. And Olivares, although not an L.A. product, man could he generate a lot of excitment and anticipation, not to mention dollars.

-Rick

Rick, a dollar in 1945 - the earliest year Frank listed - was worth $3.37 in 1977 - the last year listed. This is based on the Consumer Price Index. Other indicators are:

In 1977, $1.00 from 1945 is worth:
$3.42 using the GDP deflator
$5.40 using the value of consumer bundle
$6.33 using the unskilled wage
$5.78 using the nominal GDP per capita
$9.10 using the relative share of GDP

GDP = Gross Domestic Product.

You can do these calculations at the following site:

http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

Thanks Tom! This gives us a measuring stick.

-Rick

kikibalt wrote:Bobby had his first pro fight on this card, yet it not on his record
2-8-1985

Stateline, Nevada, United States
Jahid Kareem W Darryl Robinson PTS 10 10
Brett Summers W Joey Olivera PTS 10 10
Jesse Lopez W Otis Rodgers PTS 4 4
Jesse Benavides W Agustin Pino Soberanes PTS 4 4
Michael Nunn W Ismael Templos KO 4

Frank,
I see the two fights on Boxrec, why don't you shoot me an email with the other opponants names and dates. locations and anything else that might help and i'll go to work on it; let me know his birthday and any other information they normally list and we'll submit it all at the same time. I think you already have my email address but I'll shoot it to you in a PM just in case.
Bobbin & Weavin

Rick Farris wrote:

Expug wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

I love looking at these old posters.
I see a name than look at the record in the database here.
I find myself wondering what happened to alot of these fighters.
How did there lives turn out.
When your boxing , you think that it is all there is.
However, the truth is, there is so much more coming your way after you hang up the gloves.
Thats when real life hits you.
For some , its like getting hit in the mug by a concrete pie.
Some have it figured out.

Speaking of posters, you guys who have had your name on one, how about that feeling huh?
Man , first time I saw my name on one I think I stared at it till I got blurry eyes.
Ya feel like ya hit the big time.

I know what you mean, Pug. My first was from an amateur card at the El Monte Legion, I fought an old school mate of mine, Frankie Santillian (we fought four times!), and my first as a pro was from a match I had at a place called "Club 21" in National City, near San Diego. "Rick Farris vs. Wolverine Campos", in the 10 round semi-main, my first ten rounder. The main was headed by my stablemate, Ronnie Ceniceroz, a Johnny Flores fighter and Ruben Navarro sparring partner, like myself.

By the way Boxrec. you have no record of my first ten round match, which took place on 1/27/70, in my 7th pro bout (I was still 18, at the time). The bout was held on a card in National City, California, a ten round prelim to a main event between Ron Ceniceroz & Juan Montoya. I won the bout by a TKO, stopping my opponent, Wolverine Campos, on a cut in the 6th round. I accessed the event on Boxrec via the "date", and the other three bouts are listed correctly. What about my bout? It's important only to me, of course, as it was my first ten-rounder. I have no newspaper documentation since I returned to L.A. right after leaving the club that night. Most thought the match was the best of the evening, action wise. Same is true of a number of bouts held later in Las Vegas, at the Silver Slipper, as well as others at the Olympic. Kinda disappointing, considering what we go thru as a boxers.

-Rick Farris

Rick,
I am looking at your record and BoxRec shows you stopping Faustion (Wolverine) Campos TKO 6 of 10 on 1971-01-25. Is this the fight you are talking about; should I see if I can have the date changed. Maybe it was changed since you posted this today. I PMed you with my email address.
Bobbin & Weavin

Bobbin & Weavin wrote:Boxrec is wrong. Hawkins was not from San Diego, only fought there a couple times early in his career. He was born in Alabama, came to Los Angeles as a young boy and settled in East L.A. with his mother, grandmother and unlce (he never knew his father). It was in ELA that Hawkins (crippled from an auto accident) began to box at a local church. His mother went to work at a West L.A. hospital and was spending 3 hours daily commuting to work by bus. After a couple years, she moved the family to Watts to be closer to work. Hawkins new home was the Imperial Courts Housing Project, one of the most dangerous in Los Angeles, as it is to this day. I know that his pro debut was in S.D. but that was never his home. Dwight Hawkins is a icon in the L.A. City School System, and has dedictaed his life to ridding L.A. of it's growing gang infestation. Dwight is an LA guy thru and thru. I know this is a small error, and perhaps unimportant to 99.9% of the world, but it's an inaccuracy that I'm making Boxrec aware of, and one that needs to be changed. By the way, I am a BIG fan of Boxrec and it's staff. They have provided the World's boxing community with a valuable research device, one that is of great value to guys such as myself, not to mention this forum, which is a safe place for me to hang out.

Thanks Boxrec. and please feel free to contact me if you should ever require validation of anything I post. We won't go into my own inaccurate record, because it was far from great, anyway. However, missing is the majority of my wins which took place between 1974-76.

-Rick Farris

Rick,
I know that you said that the inaccuracy of your record doesn't matter to anyone but you but I disagree, you, Frank, Dago, raylawpc, Randy and I'll throw myself in there too & all the other boxing nuts on this site, we were involved in boxing in some way whether it was at the level that Frank reached or you & Randy who fought as pros or for me and my lousy 12 amature fights. The point I am getting to is that we love to look at the programs Frank is posting & go back to look at some of the results & there are times that we know something is missing & we are the ones who love it so much should post a request for a change on this forum so in the future it will all come together. My father & I are going to be helping the daughter of a fighter out of S.F. Lew Powell who fought in the early 1900s, currently only four fights showing & she has given us his scrap book which shows over 70 fights. Every time we make a correction we make Boxrec, IBRO and any other boxing site better if not for everyone than for us. If you want I will be the go to guy, in fact I would love to, if you guys and the other guys whos names I left off here want to you can send me a correction, I would gladly do some research and get the correction posted. I would love to start with your record Rick, you of all people on the site should have his record correct, next is you Randy...lets do it! I'm serious! PM me and get me started!!!
Bobbin & Weavin
Bruce Smith[/quote]






Thanks B&W . . . Boxrec has helped my personal education of boxing, and now, perhaps we can educate boxrec, at least as far as my modest record is concerned. I will gather the names and dates of these bouts, and any news clips I have that will support my claim. The most important to me is a ten rounder I was involved in on 1/27/30 at the "Club 21" in National City, in San Diego County. I was still 18, and it was only my 7th pro bout, which I won by TKO after stopping my opponent, Wolverine Campos, on a cut. The bout was originally scheduled for eight rounds, but the Calif. Athletic Commission OK'd the fight to be rescheduled to ten rounds, because the promoter had not scheduled enough rounds to satisfy the commissions minimum rounds per boxing card.

Just for the record, my pay for that ten round fight was $500. My trainer Julio Flores took his ten% cut off the top ($50), my manager Johnny Flores took his 1/3 ($150), leaving me $300. for my nights work. Doesn't sound like much today, but to me it beat the $75. paid for a four rounder, $85 for a five rounder and $150 for a six round bout back then. I was to receive $250 for the scheduled eight rounder, and grossed double for agreeing to let the fight be scheduled for ten. Hell, I won in six, regardless. Had it been scheduled for the original eight, I'd have made only half. Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you. In boxing, the bear usually wins, but on this night, I left Club 21 with a full stomach and a smile on my face.

-Rick

kikibalt wrote:

Frank, why was it that Vince's last name was never pronounced properly. Maybe it was because of all his fights in N.Y.? Instead of the proper Spanish pronounciation of "Mar-TEEN-Ez", he was always referrred to as "Mar-TINez". I don't expect East Coasters to know the Spanish culture as we do here in Southern Cal, but this guy had reached a level of success to at least have his name pronounced correctly. With all respect to Johnnie Addie, he was no Jimmy Lennon Sr. In my book, nobody was. Dan Tobie might be a close second. I credit the arrogant Michael Buffer as being pretty damn good (even if his tan comes from a bottle), but for my money, Jimmy Lennon Jr. comes in second behind his pop. Looks like Jimmy Jr. will host this year's WBHOF banquet, and that sits good with me. He's one of us!

By the way, Frank. Do you have any photos of Jimmy Lennon Sr. back in the good 'ol days before his hair went totally grey? He was one helluva Irish tennor in his day, and a resident of Santa Monica, as was Lawrance Welk, a band leader from an era before ours. Welk used to broadcast his early 50's TV show from the old Aragon ballroom on the Pier next to the Pacific Ocean Park fun zone. Man, I feel I was there, and I feel as if I attended fights (or fought) at the Ocean Park arena. Of course, I'm just dreaming, I guess. There was a guy who fought there, and was once a contender, named Tommy Garland. I met Garland before his death in a Venice Dive Bar called "The Brig" owned by an ex-fighter. Today, that "dive bar" is a trendy Abbott Kinney Blvd. night spot. The pic of the fighter still adorns the wall above the parking lot, but nobody knows or cares who the hell he was. Hap Navarro remembered the guy, not a big name, but Hap remembered him.

-Rick