BoxRec

It was a horrible main event match up either way. The two old boys really killed the momentum of the card.

I picked Wilder beforehand but it was pretty much an attempt to spice up a dull top of the bill. Couldn’t care less about either of them.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 09:26 he's somewhere between euro level and the level tyson fury fans like mickey think he was

In fairness, I’d say he has world class power, but his boxing ability isn’t European level! Particularly in previous eras.

Didn't Wilder used to use his jab effectively.

he would mostly just paw with it. it was most effective in setting up the right , but not really much on its own. the first stiverne fight was his best 'boxing' performance, he used it well then

Wilder seemed like he doesn't have it anymore.

After Wilder had his chin checked, he doesn't have the confidence to get his guns blazing

Coco wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 13:37 After Wilder had his chin checked, he doesn't have the confidence to get his guns blazing

In case he gets caught.. too gun shy

wilder averaged around 20 punches a round multiple fights even when undefeated, he's always been a hesistant pawer, spending long periods outside fiddling around while he looks for a right hand. ppl just remember the big blasts more than all the slow moments prior

it always made me lol when people talked about wilder just storming in there and walking through a gun shy aj, wilder wasnt that type of fighter at all

Deserter wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 07:40

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 07:29 don't think wilder would ever beat parker or zhang. I don't think fury would have either.

Parker's been pretty open in the past about Fury being 'the man' based on the time they've spent in camp together.
I agree re. Wilder being a one-trick pony, but I think that while I'm no Fury fan-boy, it's harsh to bracket him in the same category. Usyk, Fury and AJ are clearly a level above the rest of the division IMO.

Parker needed a training set up and was looking to relocate. He got in with the Furys and was happy there. I don't put too much stock in his nice comments. Regarding Fury, I'd have picked Zhang against him. The division is awful at this time so theres not too many others. Joyce is fighting like hes under water. Dubois is a quitter who will give up when going through a crisis. Hrgovic was exposed. Bakole was easily outboxed by Hunter and looked for a way out. It's a crappy division but fighters don't choose their eras in fairness. I'm just glad that the Fury and Wilder hype bubbles have well and truly burst.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 15:26

Deserter wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 07:40

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 07:29 don't think wilder would ever beat parker or zhang. I don't think fury would have either.

Parker's been pretty open in the past about Fury being 'the man' based on the time they've spent in camp together.
I agree re. Wilder being a one-trick pony, but I think that while I'm no Fury fan-boy, it's harsh to bracket him in the same category. Usyk, Fury and AJ are clearly a level above the rest of the division IMO.

Parker needed a training set up and was looking to relocate. He got in with the Furys and was happy there. I don't put too much stock in his nice comments. Regarding Fury, I'd have picked Zhang against him. The division is awful at this time so theres not too many others. Joyce is fighting like hes under water. Dubois is a quitter who will give up when going through a crisis. Hrgovic was exposed. Bakole was easily outboxed by Hunter and looked for a way out. It's a crappy division but fighters don't choose their eras in fairness. I'm just glad that the Fury and Wilder hype bubbles have well and truly burst.

A crappy division compared to when? Which Heavyweight divisions throughout history are better other than the very best?

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 15:26

Deserter wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 07:40

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 07:29 don't think wilder would ever beat parker or zhang. I don't think fury would have either.

Parker's been pretty open in the past about Fury being 'the man' based on the time they've spent in camp together.
I agree re. Wilder being a one-trick pony, but I think that while I'm no Fury fan-boy, it's harsh to bracket him in the same category. Usyk, Fury and AJ are clearly a level above the rest of the division IMO.

Parker needed a training set up and was looking to relocate. He got in with the Furys and was happy there. I don't put too much stock in his nice comments. Regarding Fury, I'd have picked Zhang against him. The division is awful at this time so theres not too many others. Joyce is fighting like hes under water. Dubois is a quitter who will give up when going through a crisis. Hrgovic was exposed. Bakole was easily outboxed by Hunter and looked for a way out. It's a crappy division but fighters don't choose their eras in fairness. I'm just glad that the Fury and Wilder hype bubbles have well and truly burst.

Dubois quit against Usyk. That was pretty clear. Against Joyce the guy had a smashed orbital bone and I can't hang him for that decision.

However, the fight last night was tough, he took some big right hands, far too often but he kept coming forward. Respect to him.

Hrgovic took it from Zhang all night but Dubois broke him up and took his soul. He made Hrgovic quit in my opinion.

Roberto Duran quit and he's hailed as an all time great.
.

I agree, he broke Hrgovic, big redemptive fight for Daniel

Frostieballs wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 09:09 I find it baffling how on a forum with so much knowledge, Wilder was given a credible chance last night. He:

- Was never that good. Fringe European level at best.

- Has physically declined.

- Perhaps most importantly, is not mentally switched onto boxing and is more interested in Ayahuasca retreats than staying active.

I felt sorry for him last night. Stuck in there, desperately trying to pull something out of the bag, possibly more for his retinue than himself.

Deep down I think he might actually be a decent guy - with the rhetoric of the past being more about his mental state than him as a person.

You could get even money on Zhang by stoppage so I assume you being completly certain of the result doubled your net worth…

Zhang is so hitable, wilder whacks. Zhang has gone life and death at sun brittish levle befor.

Zhangs also 41.

Crazy to think wilder didn’t have a credible chance.

I don’t know much, and you don’t know much, but Joe Parker was probably the most qualified person in the world to speak on it, and he thought wilder would get it done but had it a coin toss.

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 16:47 I agree, he broke Hrgovic, big redemptive fight for Daniel

No complaints from him when the doctor stopped it, looked relieved

Coco wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 17:26

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 16:47 I agree, he broke Hrgovic, big redemptive fight for Daniel

No complaints from him when the doctor stopped it, looked relieved

Aye, very telling sign isn't it.

forcefraser wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 15:48
Dubois quit against Usyk. That was pretty clear. Against Joyce the guy had a smashed orbital bone and I can't hang him for that decision.

However, the fight last night was tough, he took some big right hands, far too often but he kept coming forward. Respect to him.

Hrgovic took it from Zhang all night but Dubois broke him up and took his soul. He made Hrgovic quit in my opinion.

Roberto Duran quit and he's hailed as an all time great.
.

Zhang gassed against Hrgovic and didn't have the workrate of Dubois. Less was coming at Hrgovic there. I thought Zhang won that tbh. I think hrgovics power is a bit suspect and I said that before the fight so I'm not after timing. I don't think Dubois was ever hurt. I give him credit for the performance but I have no confidence in him if he gets hurt in a fight.

Dubois got away with some obvious butts that nobody is talking about also.

Dubois deserves credit though and you could say most fighters have quit points but it's just a matter of whether or not they will get taken there. After all the stick he got for quitting against Joyce, he still quit against Usyk. Not to mention panicking in the corner vs Lerena. But Dubois is clearly a major force right now and will probably be elevated to IBF champ. Not many I'd pick to beat him currently.

I am planning on watching Durans entire career pretty soon so I'll reserve comment on him because I have to admit I'm not as familiar as I should be. Have just watched highlights. I just got through watching the career of Finito Lopez and Duran is next on my list. Lopez was an astonishingly good technician.

gregregegg wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 17:26

Frostieballs wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 09:09 I find it baffling how on a forum with so much knowledge, Wilder was given a credible chance last night. He:

- Was never that good. Fringe European level at best.

- Has physically declined.

- Perhaps most importantly, is not mentally switched onto boxing and is more interested in Ayahuasca retreats than staying active.

I felt sorry for him last night. Stuck in there, desperately trying to pull something out of the bag, possibly more for his retinue than himself.

Deep down I think he might actually be a decent guy - with the rhetoric of the past being more about his mental state than him as a person.

You could get even money on Zhang by stoppage so I assume you being completly certain of the result doubled your net worth…

Zhang is so hitable, wilder whacks. Zhang has gone life and death at sun brittish levle befor.

Zhangs also 41.

Crazy to think wilder didn’t have a credible chance.

I don’t know much, and you don’t know much, but Joe Parker was probably the most qualified person in the world to speak on it, and he thought wilder would get it done but had it a coin toss.

I never gave Wilder a chance myself and I thought he would get done inside 3. Mainly because Zhang is probably the best 4 round fighter out there. He usually drops everyone early and with someone making the mistakes Wilder makes, he had very little chance of getting anything off without being countered and KO'd. What he actually should have done is put in another stinker like he did vs Parker and hoped for the decision coming his way due to the Wembley AJ fight. They'd have robbed Zhang. I wonder what the scorecards were. Not running into the right hook should have been the main thing they were working on.

gregregegg wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 17:26

Frostieballs wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 09:09 I find it baffling how on a forum with so much knowledge, Wilder was given a credible chance last night. He:

- Was never that good. Fringe European level at best.

- Has physically declined.

- Perhaps most importantly, is not mentally switched onto boxing and is more interested in Ayahuasca retreats than staying active.

I felt sorry for him last night. Stuck in there, desperately trying to pull something out of the bag, possibly more for his retinue than himself.

Deep down I think he might actually be a decent guy - with the rhetoric of the past being more about his mental state than him as a person.

You could get even money on Zhang by stoppage so I assume you being completly certain of the result doubled your net worth…

Zhang is so hitable, wilder whacks. Zhang has gone life and death at sun brittish levle befor.

Zhangs also 41.

Crazy to think wilder didn’t have a credible chance.

I don’t know much, and you don’t know much, but Joe Parker was probably the most qualified person in the world to speak on it, and he thought wilder would get it done but had it a coin toss.

I never bet more than a fiver a time on any event, boxing or footie, but have made exceptions for the last two weekends.

I had £35 on Usyk…. I then put £50 on Zhang by stoppage last night.

I was vocal on here. It wasn’t hindsight.

Of course Parker said that. He wanted Wilder to win. It gives his victory more credibility.

This wasn’t about Zhang. It was about Wilder and where he is at with his career.

Parker showed that his timing and desire had gone. He still held back given Wilders reputation, but could have got the stoppage.

A massive unit with power like Zhang was never going to let him off the hook.

Of course there are never certainties, but I was as sure about last night as I have been about almost any fight in 30 years.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 14:32

Coco wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 13:37 After Wilder had his chin checked, he doesn't have the confidence to get his guns blazing

In case he gets caught.. too gun shy

He was always cautious though, unless it was a total can.
It was normal to watch him do bugger all for 3-4 rounds if the guy looked to be a threat.
Remember him being out boxed by Gerrard Washington for 3-4 rounds, as a world champion?
Then BOOM!
Quite entertaining, and free to view for a while. Like a 2000's Butterbean.

Coco wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 17:26

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 16:47 I agree, he broke Hrgovic, big redemptive fight for Daniel

No complaints from him when the doctor stopped it, looked relieved

Considering he was getting 2-4 headbutts per round from the second, I'd be relieved too.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 18:46

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 14:32

Coco wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 13:37 After Wilder had his chin checked, he doesn't have the confidence to get his guns blazing

In case he gets caught.. too gun shy

He was always cautious though, unless it was a total can.
It was normal to watch him do bugger all for 3-4 rounds if the guy looked to be a threat.
Remember him being out boxed by Gerrard Washington for 3-4 rounds, as a world champion?
Then BOOM!
Quite entertaining, and free to view for a while. Like a 2000's Butterbean.

Somebody with a bit of boxing pedigree and power has always troubled Wilder.

It's hard to come out of your shell throwing bombs when somebody can send you out of orbit in a flash.

Zhang really answered all the questions yesterday. Wilder can make mistakes against low level/non puncher opposition but not at this level hence why he was gun shy. Ever since stepping up it just hasn't really worked for Wilder.

Cas wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 19:15

KiwiRider wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 18:46

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 14:32

In case he gets caught.. too gun shy

He was always cautious though, unless it was a total can.
It was normal to watch him do bugger all for 3-4 rounds if the guy looked to be a threat.
Remember him being out boxed by Gerrard Washington for 3-4 rounds, as a world champion?
Then BOOM!
Quite entertaining, and free to view for a while. Like a 2000's Butterbean.

Somebody with a bit of boxing pedigree and power has always troubled Wilder.

It's hard to come out of your shell throwing bombs when somebody can send you out of orbit in a flash.

Zhang really answered all the questions yesterday. Wilder can make mistakes against low level/non puncher opposition but not at this level hence why he was gun shy. Ever since stepping up it just hasn't really worked for Wilder.

The closest he ever got to making it work was Fury I.

the orderings you can make with hrg, zhang, joyce, dubois, and parker beating each other is all over the place. you can put almost any guy ahead or behind the other depending on the approach you take

eg

joyce beats parker who beats zhang who beat joyce who beat dubois who beat hrgvoic who beat zhang

so joyce > dubois > hrg > zhang > joyce > dubois > hrg

and

parker > zhang > joyce > parker > zhang

of course you cant simultaneously be a better and a worse fighter than someone. it's rarely as simple as 'this guy beat x, so he beats all these other guys around x's level too. it's nice to see a lot more fights between contenders happening. we've seen kabayel prove to be legit too once he stepped up

Cas wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 19:15

KiwiRider wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 18:46

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 14:32

In case he gets caught.. too gun shy

He was always cautious though, unless it was a total can.
It was normal to watch him do bugger all for 3-4 rounds if the guy looked to be a threat.
Remember him being out boxed by Gerrard Washington for 3-4 rounds, as a world champion?
Then BOOM!
Quite entertaining, and free to view for a while. Like a 2000's Butterbean.

Somebody with a bit of boxing pedigree and power has always troubled Wilder.

It's hard to come out of your shell throwing bombs when somebody can send you out of orbit in a flash.

Zhang really answered all the questions yesterday. Wilder can make mistakes against low level/non puncher opposition but not at this level hence why he was gun shy. Ever since stepping up it just hasn't really worked for Wilder.

Wilder's problem is he has virtually no defence, couple that with being gunshy from multiple batterings, and you end up with a guy who stands, backed into a corner, pawing with his jab. The minute he did try and open up, he was spattered.#

Weirdly, neither of the shots he was hit with (certainly the first,. were exactly flush), the fact he instantly turned his back and started running, suggests, in fact screams,; that he's had enough. you could argue the ref shouldn;t have allowed Zhang to land a shot when a fighter's back is turned, but it happened pretty quickly. The second shot probably wouldn't have poleaxed him if Wilder hadn't spun around.

If willder is crazy enough to fight on, then the people around him need to tell him it's over. He could literally get killed in there, he's completely gone psychologically and he doesn't have the skills to protect himself now his mystique as a danger man is gone.

For what it's worth, I thought Zhang looked awful, slow, very low output, and one dimensional.

If Wilder went back to facing the type of opponents that he was before, he'd look like the old Wilder again. Instead of Areola, Szpilka and Breazeale, he could face Guidry, Schwarz and Bryan. He'd be "back".