BoxRec

maybe im missing something.... in the case of SRR, is he only rated on his fights at a particular weight? or is he rated against all his opponents. I can see the need to post them in a division when they retire, but why is a fight at say SMW rated any differently from a fight at LHW?

Mikee wrote:maybe im missing something.... in the case of SRR, is he only rated on his fights at a particular weight? or is he rated against all his opponents. I can see the need to post them in a division when they retire, but why is a fight at say SMW rated any differently from a fight at LHW?

Mikee... Mikee.. Mikee.

For all-time ratings, only fights in the division where fighter is set, are considered in the rating. This was done, because people started complaining about certain scenarios.

Take for example, a fighter like Thomas Hearns. He is currently at Cruiserweight. If we considered all bouts regardless of weight class, he would almost definitely be #1 All-Time at Cruiserweight. Situations like this caused people to bitch, as it was more of a P4P than a divisional ranking. Thus, it was changed.

JCS83MD wrote:

Mikee wrote:maybe im missing something.... in the case of SRR, is he only rated on his fights at a particular weight? or is he rated against all his opponents. I can see the need to post them in a division when they retire, but why is a fight at say SMW rated any differently from a fight at LHW?

Mikee... Mikee.. Mikee.

For all-time ratings, only fights in the division where fighter is set, are considered in the rating. This was done, because people started complaining about certain scenarios.

Take for example, a fighter like Thomas Hearns. He is currently at Cruiserweight. If we considered all bouts regardless of weight class, he would almost definitely be #1 All-Time at Cruiserweight. Situations like this caused people to bitch, as it was more of a P4P than a divisional ranking. Thus, it was changed.

i see what u r saying, but what you should do is place him in the division he was most succesful in (most points?/ most titles?) but count all the points. I have been through the list and listed the "all time p4p" for myself, and SRR is not even in the top 15? That cant be right surely...

Cobwebcat wrote:Because they've got it into their heads its the only way to do it. By all means put them in one division but count all their fights or what's the point of the database?!

JCS: Well you shouldn't have listened. They were wrong. I also disagree that its a P4P list. Fighters are still in one division ultimately.

Re Mr Hearns: Surely all you do is count all his fights but place him in the division in which he had most of his fights. There's no point whatsoever disregarding fights outside of this weight though.

Look at it this way if a fighter fights 50% of his fights at Welter and 50% at light welter surely you aren't saying that half his record is not counted in the all-time list? Please say you aren't doing that, it would be a terrible waste of the data. There would only be the heavyweights that would be correct. Is that why Tarver is the no1 LH above Archie Moore and Roy Jones Junior??? Cant you see the blindingly obvious fault?

Come to think of it the HW category does look the best. Oh no you aren't are you? Surely nobody could be that daft?

I think you are right cobweb, you need to just look at Hearns add the points and put him in the division he achieved most in. Heavyweights ATR dont look to bad. It strikes me that the ones behind the compiling of the ratings dont really understand what looks right, as soon as anyone complains Computerrank points a breakdown of how the computation arrived. I dont understand formulaes but you seem to be excluding some important information so the formula is bascially rubbish and so the data is shit.

... too many unfocussed points ...


- Boxrec All Time Ratings reflect the boxer's achievements in a particular division only.

- An active boxer is often not currently active in the division, where he has his best achievements. He will hopefully be sorted into the best division after retirement by the editors.

- The Ratings Presentation Program refers to a single "division_assigned" field for both - the Current Ratings and the All Time Ratings.



- Boxrec could implement a division "P4P" for the Current Ratings, which would show the Current Ratings over all divisions.

- Boxrec could implement a division "P4P" for the All Time Ratings, which would show the All Time Ratings achieved over all divisions - considering all bouts of the boxer.

computerrank wrote:... too many unfocussed points ...


- Boxrec All Time Ratings reflect the boxer's achievements in a particular division only.

- An active boxer is often not currently active in the division, where he has his best achievements. He will hopefully be sorted into the best division after retirement by the editors.

- The Ratings Presentation Program refers to a single "division_assigned" field for both - the Current Ratings and the All Time Ratings.



- Boxrec could implement a division "P4P" for the Current Ratings, which would show the Current Ratings over all divisions.

- Boxrec could implement a division "P4P" for the All Time Ratings, which would show the All Time Ratings achieved over all divisions - considering all bouts of the boxer.

Computerrank- my observations;@ 168 Chris Eubank is number 1 and I think I agree, but Sven Ottke is better than the rank you have for him, Nigel Benn also, I think Benns ranking should be much closer to Eubank. Murray Sutherland at 4 shows a serious flaw, 4 world title fights, only 1 win; Thats not right despite your ability no doubt to prove ot statistically, therefore your methodoly is not right. @ Heavyweight the ranking of Francesco Damiani is wrong, certainly by my eyes. There are fighters above him that he has defeated, Johnny duPloy being one who he knocked out in 1 rd. I know both of these fighters very well. There is no way DuPloy has faced better opposition. Damiani lost only two fights one of which he was winning easily (Ray Mercer) until he had his nose broken. Damiani was a very geniune top 5 or 6 fighter for a few years. Something is wrong in your formula.

Mikee wrote:

JCS83MD wrote:

Mikee wrote:maybe im missing something.... in the case of SRR, is he only rated on his fights at a particular weight? or is he rated against all his opponents. I can see the need to post them in a division when they retire, but why is a fight at say SMW rated any differently from a fight at LHW?

Mikee... Mikee.. Mikee.

For all-time ratings, only fights in the division where fighter is set, are considered in the rating. This was done, because people started complaining about certain scenarios.

Take for example, a fighter like Thomas Hearns. He is currently at Cruiserweight. If we considered all bouts regardless of weight class, he would almost definitely be #1 All-Time at Cruiserweight. Situations like this caused people to bitch, as it was more of a P4P than a divisional ranking. Thus, it was changed.

i see what u r saying, but what you should do is place him in the division he was most succesful in (most points?/ most titles?) but count all the points. I have been through the list and listed the "all time p4p" for myself, and SRR is not even in the top 15? That cant be right surely...

Technically, Hearns is still not retired, but I think now that he is inactive, he should be changed.

SRR isn't in the top 10 because only his Middleweight bouts are being considered. JCC is another example... he's set at 140, but look what else he did in the surrounding divisions.

I've tried to get changes around here, but never was taken seriously, so I've given up.

I'd have to say that I'm in agreement with Cobwebcat and find that choice to be surprising, to say the least. Ranking all-time fighters only based on their accomplishments at a single weight class seems completely counter-intuitive.

What would the problems be if weight class was removed from consideration. Is there a particular fighter who would be massively overrated at one weight if his contributions at another were added in? Or is it the opposite problem? Some fighter would take a hit if his exploits at a different weight were included? I'm guessing if the fighter's "peak period" stretches over multiple weight classes, then he would see a significant jump in rating, but I'm not sure why that would be bad.

... home advantage ...

home advantage not regarded vs. currrent home advantage

look and respond, please ...

M Heavyweight 1124 449 Wladimir Klitschko
M Heavyweight 929 333 Samuel Peter
M Heavyweight 846 314 Oleg Maskaev
M Heavyweight 841 278 Nikolay Valuev
M Heavyweight 636 210 Ruslan Chagaev
M Heavyweight 551 432 John Ruiz
M Heavyweight 544 191 Matt Skelton
M Heavyweight 543 268 Lamon Brewster
M Heavyweight 503 170 Vladimir Virchis
M Heavyweight 501 180 Shannon Briggs
M Heavyweight 496 139 Tony Thompson
M Heavyweight 474 386 Chris Byrd
M Heavyweight 458 473 Hasim Rahman
M Heavyweight 454 196 Luan Krasniqi
M Heavyweight 418 232 James Toney

1 Wladimir Klitschko 30 1,050 1996 48-3-0

2 Samuel Peter 26 943 2001 28-1-0

3 Oleg Maskaev 38 831 1993 34-5-0

4 Nikolay Valuev 33 825 1993 46-0-0

5 Lamon Brewster 33 559 1996 33-3-0

6 Ruslan Chagaev 28 544 1997 22-0-1

7 John Ruiz 35 543 1992 41-7-1

8 Shannon Briggs 35 528 1992 48-4-1

9 Matt Skelton 40 510 2002 20-1-0

10 Tony Thompson 35 507 2000 29-1-0

11 1 Vladimir Virchis 33 482 1999 22-1-0

12 1 Chris Byrd 36 481 1993 39-3-1

13 Hasim Rahman 34 473 1994 41-6-2

14 James Toney 38 429 1988 69-6-3

15 Sultan Ibragimov 32 428 2002 20-0-1

M Cruiserweight 957 459 Jean Marc Mormeck
M Cruiserweight 873 429 O'Neil Bell
M Cruiserweight 821 237 Enzo Maccarinelli
M Cruiserweight 749 204 Vadim Tokarev
M Cruiserweight 743 201 David Haye
M Cruiserweight 684 165 Marco Huck
M Cruiserweight 533 185 Krzysztof Wlodarczyk
M Cruiserweight 533 168 Firat Arslan
M Cruiserweight 516 54 Emmanuel Nwodo
M Cruiserweight 493 179 Steve Cunningham
M Cruiserweight 489 50 Hugo Hernan Garay
M Cruiserweight 461 94 Matt Godfrey
M Cruiserweight 444 114 Darnell Wilson
M Cruiserweight 397 180 Vincenzo Cantatore
M Cruiserweight 389 68 Johnathon Banks

1 Jean Marc Mormeck 34 898 1995 33-3-0

2 O'Neil Bell 32 896 1998 26-2-1

3 Vadim Tokarev 35 707 2000 23-0-1

4 Enzo Maccarinelli 26 583 1999 25-1-0

5 Firat Arslan 36 577 1997 26-3-1

6 Marco Huck 22 533 2004 18-0-0

7 David Haye 26 531 2002 18-1-0

8 Emmanuel Nwodo 33 531 1998 21-3-0

9 Hugo Hernan Garay 26 482 2001 27-2-0

10 Darnell Wilson 32 481 2000 21-5-3

11 Matt Godfrey 26 452 2004 14-0-0

12 Johnathon Banks 24 406 2004 15-0-0

13 Krzysztof Wlodarczyk 25 395 2000 37-1-0

14 Steve Cunningham 30 393 2000 19-1-0

15 BJ Flores 28 371 2003 19-0-1

M Light Heavyweight 1999 252 Bernard Hopkins
M Light Heavyweight 1214 946 Antonio Tarver
M Light Heavyweight 1112 473 Clinton Woods
M Light Heavyweight 1110 672 Glen Johnson
M Light Heavyweight 838 286 Zsolt Erdei
M Light Heavyweight 831 824 Roy Jones Jr
M Light Heavyweight 814 182 Chad Dawson
M Light Heavyweight 566 292 Paul Briggs
M Light Heavyweight 510 268 Tomasz Adamek
M Light Heavyweight 503 184 Stipe Drews
M Light Heavyweight 475 257 Julio Cesar Gonzalez
M Light Heavyweight 448 92 Danny Green
M Light Heavyweight 419 70 Dean Francis
M Light Heavyweight 390 417 Montell Griffin
M Light Heavyweight 375 235 Thomas Ulrich

1 Bernard Hopkins 42 2,046 1988 47-4-1

2 Antonio Tarver 38 1,291 1997 24-4-0

3 Clinton Woods 34 1,073 1994 40-3-1

4 Glen Johnson 38 1,072 1993 44-11-2

5 Chad Dawson 24 924 2001 23-0-0

6 Roy Jones Jr 38 904 1989 50-4-0

7 Julio Cesar Gonzalez 30 613 1997 41-3-0

8 Zsolt Erdei 32 585 2000 26-0-0

9 Tomasz Adamek 30 554 1999 31-1-0

10 Dean Francis 33 472 1994 27-3-0

11 Danny Green 34 468 2001 23-3-0

12 Stipe Drews 33 468 1999 31-1-0

13 Rico Hoye 32 463 2001 20-1-0

14 Montell Griffin 36 455 1993 48-6-0

15 Paul Briggs 31 367 1994 26-3-0

M Super Middleweight 1395 593 Joe Calzaghe
M Super Middleweight 1054 365 Mikkel Kessler
M Super Middleweight 806 364 Anthony Mundine
M Super Middleweight 681 231 Carl Froch
M Super Middleweight 656 191 Lucian Bute
M Super Middleweight 612 336 Jeff Lacy
M Super Middleweight 567 117 Alejandro Berrio
M Super Middleweight 521 157 Denis Inkin
M Super Middleweight 503 153 Librado Andrade
M Super Middleweight 500 132 Peter Manfredo Jr
M Super Middleweight 478 339 Markus Beyer
M Super Middleweight 418 227 Vitali Tsypko
M Super Middleweight 391 183 Juergen Braehmer
M Super Middleweight 371 102 Sam Soliman
M Super Middleweight 351 121 David Gogiya

1 Joe Calzaghe 35 1,467 1993 42-0-0

2 Mikkel Kessler 28 810 1998 38-0-0

3 Anthony Mundine 31 788 2000 28-3-0

4 Carl Froch 29 717 2002 21-0-0

5 Alejandro Berrio 30 699 1997 26-4-0

6 Jeff Lacy 29 688 2001 22-1-0

7 Librado Andrade 28 626 1999 24-0-0

8 Peter Manfredo Jr 26 572 2000 26-3-0

9 Lucian Bute 27 506 2003 19-0-0

10 Vitali Tsypko 30 498 1999 19-2-0

11 Denis Inkin 29 495 2001 30-0-0

12 Markus Beyer 35 459 1996 34-3-1

13 Sam Soliman 33 443 1997 33-9-0

14 Juergen Braehmer 28 425 1999 28-1-0

15 Sakio Bika 27 406 2000 22-2-2

M Middleweight 2005 747 Jermain Taylor
M Middleweight 1855 423 Ronald Wright
M Middleweight 1107 326 Arthur Abraham
M Middleweight 729 148 Kassim Ouma
M Middleweight 718 83 Edison Miranda
M Middleweight 706 44 Roman Karmazin
M Middleweight 647 130 Javier Castillejo
M Middleweight 615 121 Kelly Pavlik
M Middleweight 558 136 Amin Asikainen
M Middleweight 512 116 Sergio Mora
M Middleweight 471 5 Daniel Santos
M Middleweight 425 115 John Duddy
M Middleweight 420 81 David Lopez
M Middleweight 407 166 Mariano Natalio Carrera
M Middleweight 397 68 Enrique Ornelas

1 Jermain Taylor 28 1,982 2001 26-0-1

2 Ronald Wright 35 1,899 1990 51-3-1

3 Arthur Abraham 27 835 2003 22-0-0

4 Edison Miranda 26 825 2001 28-1-0

5 Roman Karmazin 34 808 1996 35-2-1

6 Javier Castillejo 39 790 1988 62-6-0

7 Kassim Ouma 28 726 1998 25-3-1

8 Kelly Pavlik 24 710 2000 30-0-0

9 Sergio Mora 26 557 2000 19-0-0

10 Mariano Natalio Carrera 26 484 2001 29-5-0

11 Enrique Ornelas 26 454 1999 25-3-0

12 John Duddy 27 439 2003 19-0-0

13 Daniel Santos 31 438 1996 30-3-1

14 Howard Eastman 36 419 1994 41-4-0

15 David Lopez 29 416 1995 30-12-0

M Light Middleweight 957 198 Cory Spinks
M Light Middleweight 802 369 Oscar De La Hoya
M Light Middleweight 784 203 Sergiy Dzinziruk
M Light Middleweight 781 226 Sergio Gabriel Martinez
M Light Middleweight 650 157 Joachim Alcine
M Light Middleweight 620 339 Verno Phillips
M Light Middleweight 551 125 Reda Zam Zam
M Light Middleweight 514 96 Javier Alberto Mamani
M Light Middleweight 509 143 Jamie Moore
M Light Middleweight 502 94 Sechew Powell
M Light Middleweight 501 117 Ricardo Mayorga
M Light Middleweight 501 91 Michele Piccirillo
M Light Middleweight 498 111 Attila Kovacs
M Light Middleweight 425 377 Fernando Vargas
M Light Middleweight 424 99 Zaurbek Baysangurov

1 Cory Spinks 29 1,065 1997 36-3-0

2 Sergio Gabriel Martinez 32 911 1997 38-1-1

3 Javier Alberto Mamani 25 769 2001 31-5-1

4 Oscar De La Hoya 34 749 1992 38-4-0

5 Verno Phillips 37 634 1988 41-10-1

6 Sergiy Dzinziruk 31 623 1999 33-0-0

7 Marco Antonio Avendano 33 563 1996 23-5-1

8 Sechew Powell 27 550 2002 21-1-0

9 Christophe Canclaux 30 521 1998 34-2-0

10 Jamie Moore 28 518 1999 26-3-0

11 Serge Vigne 32 506 1995 22-15-2

12 Travis Simms 35 504 1998 25-0-0

13 Joachim Alcine 30 489 1999 28-0-0

14 Ricardo Mayorga 33 485 1993 28-6-1

15 Vernon Forrest 36 440 1992 38-2-0

M Welterweight 2632 411 Floyd Mayweather Jr
M Welterweight 1525 502 Shane Mosley
M Welterweight 1194 139 Miguel Angel Cotto
M Welterweight 939 517 Carlos Manuel Baldomir
M Welterweight 915 388 Antonio Margarito
M Welterweight 822 159 Paul Williams
M Welterweight 760 474 Zab Judah
M Welterweight 694 197 Kermit Cintron
M Welterweight 577 211 Arturo Gatti
M Welterweight 459 189 Michel Trabant
M Welterweight 459 130 Jackson Osei Bonsu
M Welterweight 435 225 Luis Collazo
M Welterweight 421 227 Frederic Klose
M Welterweight 393 90 Oktay Urkal
M Welterweight 382 97 Carlos Quintana

1 Floyd Mayweather Jr 30 2,539 1996 37-0-0

2 Shane Mosley 35 1,308 1993 44-4-0

3 Antonio Margarito 29 1,131 1994 34-4-0

4 Miguel Angel Cotto 26 935 2001 29-0-0

5 Carlos Manuel Baldomir 35 918 1993 43-10-6

6 Zab Judah 29 760 1996 34-4-0

7 Paul Williams 25 728 2000 32-0-0

8 Kermit Cintron 27 675 2000 27-1-0

9 Jackson Osei Bonsu 26 578 2001 24-1-0

10 Arturo Gatti 34 533 1991 40-8-0

11 Walter Dario Matthysse 28 443 2002 26-1-0

12 Carlos Quintana 30 382 1997 23-1-0

13 Hector David Saldivia 23 372 2004 21-0-0

14 Andre Berto 23 369 2004 17-0-0

15 Frederic Klose 36 366 1993 40-5-0

M Light Welterweight 1583 526 Ricky Hatton
M Light Welterweight 1210 245 Jose Luis Castillo
M Light Welterweight 781 243 Junior Witter
M Light Welterweight 772 384 Vivian Harris
M Light Welterweight 755 256 Herman Ngoudjo
M Light Welterweight 734 6 Diego Corrales
M Light Welterweight 729 136 Demetrius Hopkins
M Light Welterweight 590 135 Kendall Holt
M Light Welterweight 532 145 Juan Lazcano
M Light Welterweight 520 240 Souleymane M'baye
M Light Welterweight 490 214 Andreas Kotelnik
M Light Welterweight 468 144 Ted Bami
M Light Welterweight 468 22 Yodsanan Sor Nanthachai
M Light Welterweight 467 243 Lovemore N'dou
M Light Welterweight 463 122 Norio Kimura

1 Ricky Hatton 28 1,099 1997 42-0-0

2 Jose Luis Castillo 33 956 1990 55-7-1

3 Herman Ngoudjo 27 856 2003 15-1-0

4 Vivian Harris 28 739 1997 28-2-1

5 Demetrius Hopkins 26 736 2000 26-0-1

6 Diego Corrales 29 726 1996 40-4-0

7 Andreas Kotelnik 29 657 2000 27-2-1

8 Kendall Holt 25 608 2001 21-1-0

9 Junior Witter 33 564 1997 35-1-2

10 Juan Lazcano 32 533 1993 37-4-1

11 Yodsanan Sor Nanthachai 36 483 1993 50-3-1

12 Sirimongkol Singwangcha 30 481 1994 55-2-0

13 Jung Bum Kim 28 472 1996 27-3-1

14 Norio Kimura 29 460 1996 30-5-2

15 Isaac Hlatshwayo 29 433 2000 25-1-0

M Lightweight 1044 265 Juan Diaz
M Lightweight 918 329 Joel Casamayor
M Lightweight 874 282 Julio Diaz
M Lightweight 800 256 Acelino Freitas
M Lightweight 737 264 Nate Campbell
M Lightweight 732 222 Zahir Raheem
M Lightweight 695 87 Jorge Rodrigo Barrios
M Lightweight 586 120 Michael Katsidis
M Lightweight 583 158 Almazbek Raiymkulov
M Lightweight 524 86 Jonathan Thaxton
M Lightweight 489 160 Yuri Romanov
M Lightweight 485 265 Aldo Nazareno Rios
M Lightweight 484 82 David Diaz
M Lightweight 434 63 Ray Narh
M Lightweight 401 46 Ranee Ganoy

1 Juan Diaz 23 854 2000 31-0-0

2 Joel Casamayor 35 788 1996 34-3-1

3 Julio Diaz 27 772 1999 34-3-0

4 Acelino Freitas 31 611 1995 38-1-0

5 Aldo Nazareno Rios 32 591 1995 42-4-0

6 Jorge Rodrigo Barrios 30 587 1996 46-3-1

7 Zahir Raheem 30 567 1996 27-2-0

8 Michael Katsidis 26 556 2001 22-0-0

9 Nate Campbell 35 549 2000 30-5-1

10 Fernando Angulo 26 495 1999 18-4-0

11 Almazbek Raiymkulov 30 484 2001 24-1-1

12 Yuri Romanov 24 453 2002 18-2-0

13 David Diaz 30 426 1996 32-1-1

14 Ray Narh 28 420 2001 20-1-0

15 Jonathan Thaxton 32 381 1992 32-7-0

M Super Featherweight 1455 429 Manny Pacquiao
M Super Featherweight 1256 242 Juan Manuel Marquez
M Super Featherweight 732 435 Marco Antonio Barrera
M Super Featherweight 639 413 Rocky Juarez
M Super Featherweight 616 146 Joan Guzman
M Super Featherweight 611 115 Humberto Soto
M Super Featherweight 589 236 Alex Arthur
M Super Featherweight 559 142 Edwin Valero
M Super Featherweight 484 196 Mzonke Fana
M Super Featherweight 457 444 Erik Morales
M Super Featherweight 430 243 Cassius Baloyi
M Super Featherweight 416 153 Nobuhito Honmo
M Super Featherweight 392 3 Hiroyuki Enoki
M Super Featherweight 388 137 Yusuke Kobori
M Super Featherweight 346 100 Hector Velazquez

1 Juan Manuel Marquez 33 1,560 1993 47-3-1

2 Manny Pacquiao 28 1,535 1995 43-3-2

3 Edwin Valero 25 1,003 2002 21-0-0

4 Marco Antonio Barrera 33 819 1989 63-5-0

5 Joan Guzman 30 718 1997 27-0-0

6 Rocky Juarez 26 708 2001 26-3-0

7 Humberto Soto 26 703 1997 41-5-2

8 Nobuhito Honmo 29 512 1996 29-4-2

9 Leva Kirakosyan 33 497 1999 25-4-0

10 Erik Morales 30 490 1993 48-5-0

11 Alex Arthur 28 483 2000 24-1-0

12 Yusuke Kobori 27 445 2000 19-2-1

13 Mzonke Fana 33 437 1994 25-3-0

14 Roberto David Arrieta 31 436 1998 21-12-4

15 Hector Velazquez 32 435 1993 46-11-2

M Featherweight 1604 438 Chris John
M Featherweight 877 160 Orlando Salido
M Featherweight 716 147 Nicky Cook
M Featherweight 687 123 Thomas Mashaba
M Featherweight 624 284 In Jin Chi
M Featherweight 622 95 Jorge Solis
M Featherweight 610 250 Robert Guerrero
M Featherweight 597 44 Oscar Larios
M Featherweight 546 80 Mario Santiago
M Featherweight 535 61 Toshiaki Nishioka
M Featherweight 460 96 Chonlatarn Piriyapinyo
M Featherweight 449 73 Derry Matthews
M Featherweight 430 0 Fernando David Saucedo
M Featherweight 418 102 Valdemir Pereira
M Featherweight 405 30 Jimrex Jaca

1 Chris John 27 1,322 1998 39-0-1

2 Orlando Salido 26 832 1996 28-9-2

3 Thomas Mashaba 647 1999 19-2-4

4 Jorge Solis 27 620 1998 32-0-2

5 Oscar Larios 30 611 1994 58-5-1

6 In Jin Chi 33 590 1991 31-3-1

7 Nicky Cook 27 576 1998 27-0-0

8 Robert Guerrero 23 574 2001 20-2-1

9 Fernando David Saucedo 26 505 2001 26-4-3

10 Oscar Leon 32 503 1996 27-6-0

11 Rodolfo Lopez 23 492 2000 19-3-1

12 Mario Santiago 28 472 2001 18-0-0

13 Toshiaki Nishioka 30 449 1994 28-4-3

14 Derry Matthews 23 437 2003 18-0-0

15 Gamaliel Diaz 26 403 1998 21-6-2

M Super Bantamweight 2102 248 Rafael Marquez
M Super Bantamweight 1017 362 Celestino Caballero
M Super Bantamweight 980 501 Israel Vazquez
M Super Bantamweight 938 272 Daniel Ponce de Leon
M Super Bantamweight 609 81 Jhonny Gonzalez
M Super Bantamweight 596 140 Takalani Ndlovu
M Super Bantamweight 551 125 Steve Molitor
M Super Bantamweight 517 252 Somsak Sithchatchawal
M Super Bantamweight 516 0 Alexander Munoz
M Super Bantamweight 510 129 Wethya Sakmuangklang
M Super Bantamweight 506 106 Saenghiran Lookbanyai
M Super Bantamweight 476 67 Bernard Dunne
M Super Bantamweight 470 53 Alejandro Valdez
M Super Bantamweight 467 146 Daisuke Yamanaka
M Super Bantamweight 451 101 Napapol Kiatisakchokchai

1 Rafael Marquez 31 2,078 1995 37-3-0

2 Celestino Caballero 30 1,282 1998 26-2-0

3 Israel Vazquez 29 935 1995 41-4-0

4 Daniel Ponce de Leon 26 779 2001 31-1-0

5 Takalani Ndlovu 29 735 1999 27-3-0

6 Alexander Munoz 28 711 1998 29-2-0

7 Wethya Sakmuangklang 30 553 1993 70-4-0

8 Steve Molitor 26 542 2000 23-0-0

9 Jhonny Gonzalez 25 540 1999 33-5-0

10 Ricardo Castillo 27 532 1997 27-4-0

11 Saenghiran Lookbanyai 26 512 2003 20-0-0

12 Julio Zarate 31 449 1997 26-3-1

13 Alejandro Valdez 23 436 2004 18-2-0

14 Mike Oliver 27 412 2001 18-0-0

15 Napapol Kiatisakchokchai 28 410 1995 40-2-0

M Bantamweight 1436 338 Hozumi Hasegawa
M Bantamweight 894 283 Wladimir Sidorenko
M Bantamweight 813 201 Simone Maludrottu
M Bantamweight 793 247 Ricardo Cordoba
M Bantamweight 722 251 Silence Mabuza
M Bantamweight 659 448 Veeraphol Sahaprom
M Bantamweight 555 82 Tshifhiwa Munyai
M Bantamweight 528 36 Jose Nieves
M Bantamweight 524 195 Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym
M Bantamweight 520 193 Genaro Garcia
M Bantamweight 510 75 Anselmo Moreno
M Bantamweight 462 77 Simpiwe Vetyeka
M Bantamweight 438 79 Kohei Ohba
M Bantamweight 413 107 Carmelo Ballone
M Bantamweight 408 1 Lorenzo Parra

1 Hozumi Hasegawa 26 1,111 1999 21-2-0

2 Ricardo Cordoba 24 783 2000 29-1-2

3 Silence Mabuza 29 773 1999 19-2-0

4 Simone Maludrottu 28 706 2000 25-1-0

5 Genaro Garcia 29 692 1994 35-5-0

6 Tshifhiwa Munyai 671 2003 13-0-1

7 Jose Nieves 26 606 2001 16-0-2

8 Veeraphol Sahaprom 38 534 1994 55-3-2

9 Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym 26 512 2001 27-1-0

10 Kohei Ohba 22 502 2002 17-0-1

11 Simpiwe Vetyeka 482 2002 16-0-0

12 Lorenzo Parra 28 481 1999 27-1-0

13 Diosdado Gabi 27 434 1999 29-3-1

14 Wladimir Sidorenko 30 433 2001 19-0-2

15 Eden Sonsona 18 426 2004 11-1-0

M Super Flyweight 1444 104 Jorge Arce
M Super Flyweight 1072 261 Nobuo Nashiro
M Super Flyweight 823 275 Cristian Mijares
M Super Flyweight 683 340 Martin Castillo
M Super Flyweight 658 250 Fernando Montiel
M Super Flyweight 636 214 Pramuansak Posuwan
M Super Flyweight 602 85 Kohei Kono
M Super Flyweight 542 249 Luis Alberto Perez
M Super Flyweight 528 139 Z Gorres
M Super Flyweight 517 229 Jose Navarro
M Super Flyweight 497 89 Daigo Nakahiro
M Super Flyweight 468 106 Masibulele Makepula
M Super Flyweight 449 57 Nonito Donaire
M Super Flyweight 420 116 Zolile Mbityi
M Super Flyweight 415 130 Teppei Kikui

1 Jorge Arce 27 1,173 1996 46-3-1

2 Nobuo Nashiro 25 962 2003 9-0-0

3 Cristian Mijares 25 950 1997 30-3-2

4 Fernando Montiel 28 705 1996 33-2-1

5 Pramuansak Posuwan 38 646 2001 35-1-1

6 Jose Navarro 25 588 2001 25-2-0

7 Kohei Kono 26 579 2000 18-3-0

8 Martin Castillo 30 576 1998 30-2-0

9 Luis Alberto Perez 28 535 1996 24-1-0

10 Dimitri Kirilov 28 533 1998 28-3-0

11 Hiroyuki Hisataka 21 484 2002 15-3-1

12 Daigo Nakahiro 25 475 2001 14-2-0

13 Zolile Mbityi 36 438 1989 29-13-3

14 1 Mbwana Matumla 31 427 1997 17-2-0

15 1 Nonito Donaire 24 425 2001 16-1-0

M Flyweight 1470 379 Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
M Flyweight 1378 356 Vic Darchinyan
M Flyweight 1162 331 Omar Andres Narvaes
M Flyweight 1008 410 Takefumi Sakata
M Flyweight 820 78 Roberto Vasquez
M Flyweight 649 151 Daisuke Naito
M Flyweight 575 60 Wandee Singwangcha
M Flyweight 570 137 Denkaosan Kaovichit
M Flyweight 546 84 Koki Kameda
M Flyweight 521 75 Luis Alberto Lazarte
M Flyweight 483 92 Panomroonglek Kratingdaenggym
M Flyweight 477 103 Luis Maldonado
M Flyweight 456 101 Shingo Yamaguchi
M Flyweight 450 173 Andrea Sarritzu

1 Pongsaklek Wonjongkam 29 1,136 1994 64-2-0

2 Vic Darchinyan 31 1,084 2000 28-0-0

3 Omar Andres Narvaes 31 1,015 2000 24-0-2

4 Takefumi Sakata 27 948 1998 30-4-1

5 Luis Maldonado 29 635 1998 36-1-1

6 Roberto Vasquez 23 582 2001 24-1-0

7 Denkaosan Kaovichit 30 559 1996 37-1-0

8 Daisuke Naito 32 532 1996 30-2-2

9 Koki Kameda 20 520 2003 14-0-0

10 Bert Batawang 35 505 1990 41-12-3

11 Rodel Mayol 25 499 2000 23-1-0

12 Luis Alberto Lazarte 36 495 1996 35-7-1

13 Wandee Singwangcha 27 474 1994 51-7-1

14 Panomroonglek Kratingdaenggym 22 462 2004 17-0-0

15 Jose Lopez 34 361 1991 35-7-2

M Light Flyweight 843 277 Ulises Solis
M Light Flyweight 841 257 Hugo Fidel Cazares
M Light Flyweight 749 193 Omar Nino Romero
M Light Flyweight 701 150 Muvhuso Nedzanani
M Light Flyweight 663 188 Brian Viloria
M Light Flyweight 619 99 Omar Salado
M Light Flyweight 561 129 Kaichon Sor Vorapin
M Light Flyweight 507 64 Along Denoy
M Light Flyweight 457 90 Francisco Rosas
M Light Flyweight 457 27 Giovanni Segura
M Light Flyweight 436 54 Juan Carlos Reveco
M Light Flyweight 407 128 Nobuaki Masuda
M Light Flyweight 401 56 Nethra Sasiprapa
M Light Flyweight 375 172 Munetsugu Kayo
M Light Flyweight 320 44 Cesar Canchila

1 Omar Nino Romero 30 1,023 1995 24-2-2

2 Ulises Solis 25 987 2000 23-1-2

3 Muvhuso Nedzanani 812 2000 18-1-3

4 Hugo Fidel Cazares 29 809 1997 24-3-1

5 Kaichon Sor Vorapin 25 714 2000 24-9-0

6 Omar Salado 27 696 2002 15-0-2

7 Along Denoy 23 581 2002 13-6-1

8 Francisco Rosas 26 569 1998 19-5-1

9 Giovanni Segura 24 540 2003 17-0-1

10 Brian Viloria 26 447 2001 19-1-1

11 Jose Antonio Aguirre 31 430 1995 34-5-1

12 Munetsugu Kayo 24 416 2001 14-2-0

13 Nethra Sasiprapa 24 414 2004 17-0-0

14 Julius Alcos 22 399 2002 11-3-0

15 Wilfrido Valdez Perez 28 384 2001 23-1-3

M Minimumweight 1181 298 Ivan Calderon
M Minimumweight 1019 400 Eagle Kyowa
M Minimumweight 894 271 Muhammad Rachman
M Minimumweight 668 84 Florante Condes
M Minimumweight 630 221 Katsunari Takayama
M Minimumweight 621 138 Pornsawan Kratingdaenggym
M Minimumweight 601 107 Oleydong Sithsamerchai
M Minimumweight 527 169 Lorenzo Trejo
M Minimumweight 520 72 Nkosinathi Joyi
M Minimumweight 506 171 Teruo Misawa
M Minimumweight 463 59 Toshiki Ogawa
M Minimumweight 441 214 Satoshi Kogumazaka
M Minimumweight 413 53 Zukisani Kwayiba
M Minimumweight 400 94 Juan Palacios
M Minimumweight 375 15 Pigmy Muangchaiyaphum

1 Eagle Kyowa 28 900 2000 17-1-0

2 Ivan Calderon 32 861 2001 27-0-0

3 Florante Condes 26 819 2002 21-3-1

4 Muhammad Rachman 35 801 1993 61-5-5

5 Katsunari Takayama 23 686 2000 18-2-0

6 Lorenzo Trejo 29 679 1995 29-15-0

7 Pornsawan Kratingdaenggym 29 671 2001 17-0-0

8 Nkosinathi Joyi 24 532 2002 17-0-0

9 Teruo Misawa 28 514 1998 17-2-4

10 Oleydong Sithsamerchai 21 501 2002 22-0-0

11 Toshiki Ogawa 27 476 1998 14-4-1

12 Satoshi Kogumazaka 30 445 1995 24-8-4

13 Eriberto Gejon 27 421 1999 23-1-1

14 Marti Polii 406 2002 8-5-0

15 Zukisani Kwayiba 405 2004 8-0-0

The difference is slight.. but I'd say WITHOUT home advantage looks a good deal better.


BTW, "without home" is the ranking without spaces between...

I'd say home advantage needs to go... unless promoter advantage is great.

In the old predictive system, an advantage of 125 points for home advantage worked the best though. Using that system, I have to imagine that on average, that was probably.. what, no more than 15%? Compared to 100%, that seems like a tremendous increase. Perhaps a tiny home advantage would be best.

In the past 2 years, Mikkel Kessler has fought:

#3 Anthony Mundine, UD12, abroad
retired Eric Lucas, KO 10
#8 Librado Andrade, UD12
# 12 Markus Beyer, KO3

Joe Calzaghe has fought:

# 46 Mario Veit, KO6, abroad
Middleweight #22 Evans Ashira, UD12
# 6 Jeff Lacy, UD12
# 15 Sakio Bika, UD12


It seems to me that any alogirthm with a remote relationship to logic would necessarily result in the following:

-- Kessler's Mundine win must count for much more than Calzaghe's Lacy win
-- Kessler's Andrade win must count for more substantially than Calzaghe's Bika win
--Kessler's Beyer win ought to count for substantially more than Calzaghe's Veit win (home disadvantage should not compensate for 34 ranking places)
-- Kessler's Lucas win should arguably count for more than Calzaghe's Ashira win.

And yet the borec algorithm gives Kessler 849 points and Calzaghe 1412 points.

Please explain.

pundit.. Jeff Lacy raised Calzaghe's rating astronomically... so there's no disputing who's #1 and who's #2 at 168.

You also have to remember that these fighters' current ratings have no impacts on what their ratings were at the time of the bouts.

Taking away home advantage makes the gap smaller, but Calzaghe is still #1. However, after factoring in the Andrade win, its gotta be close.

I vote to remove home advantage. Those rankings without it look great.

jujigatame wrote:I vote to remove home advantage. Those rankings without it look great.

Like I stated earlier, I'd be very curious to see a small home advantage... maybe 10 or 15%. When compared to 100%, thats small potatoes and I personally think it'd yield the best result.

I do agree though, without, looks better than the 100% advantage.

I see hometown went bye bye on the live system...

Cobwebcat wrote:
Interestingly the all-time stats look even better. Has the hometown factor done this?! Or has computerrank counted all fights at all weights as suggested?


:P

Both

Cobwebcat wrote:No wonder they look so good.

I think I'll leave him in peace now

I still think there should be some kind of small penalty for these hometown fighters... but nothing compared to what there used to be. However, in setting such a penalty, you risk putting the loser above the winner, unless you incorporate some kind of protection.

I'm gonna run a ratings test with (what I believe to be) a home advantage of 12.5%. This is opposed to the 100% advantage that we were using...

I'd like to just see it stay where it is for a while and see what happens (although I'd be interesting in seeing your tests JCS). This new update seems to have taken care of the most egregious problems - French and Argentinian fighters more reasonable placed, Serge Vigne out of the top 10, Alcine back ahead of Avendano, etc. If we're all happy with how they look now (which I am at least), I think we need some stability in the ratings for a while.

We put up with the poorer set of ratings just for stability's sake.. I think our aim should be toward improvement moreso than appearing stable.

I doubt though that my tests will look much better or worse.. the difference will be quite subtle.

With 12.5% Home Advantage

Note: Data is from before this weekend...

I think I still prefer the current rankings without any home advantage at all. I see just as many places where it hurts as places where it helps. When in doubt, simplify.

Martin,

Why was the decision made to use Ranks 9-11 for equalization of the divisions? I'm not sure that's the best solution. Seeing Hasegawa nearing the Top 10 P4P has got me thinking about it..

question.

Julio Cesar Chavez (retired) fought Oscar De La Hoya (active). if DLH beats mayweather, his points value increases (yes/no?). Does this affect JCC's points?

i guess im asking, do current results affect the All time rankings of opponents of the active fighters if these opponents have retired?

i guess if this is the case, then every result must affect every fighter in some minute way? or is there a cut off point for how deep the result of one fight can affect the ratings (whcih i suppose is question again)