BoxRec

Can you guess who is under the Zebra costume?

Clue: He is a Top 100 boxer P4P of ALL TIME!!

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 Apr 2021, 09:58

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 15:07

elmersalsa wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 12:44

He was stronger and bigger than Floyd and Manny. He was at a weight class that Manny nor Floyd were accustomed to. And both of them beat Oscar easily. That comes to show that not even when he got advantages in his favor, he can't beat Manny nor Floyd. Guys that were coming up from the flyweights for crying out loud. Oscar is a joke. To put him in the top 100 is a TRAVESTY

Does the fact that he was 34 when he fought Mayweather and 35 when he fought Pacquiao mean anything at all to you?
Does going down in weight mean anything to you?

He was the bigger and stronger fighter. Was still capable at 34 to beat Floyd. No excuses there. He got whupped.

He lost a split decision to a fighter who was in his prime and the best boxer of the last 20 years

He also beat pernell whitaker while whitaker was still rated as a top 5 p4p

If erik Morales did that youd spend 3 months on it.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Apr 2021, 13:44 Really? So age doesn't matter? I'm sure that you will always be consistent with that.

And the Hopkins loss? Wasn't Hopkins bigger and stronger? Surely you can't count that against DLH since Hopkins had the advantages.

Age matters. De La Hoya was younger than Hopkins. Hopkins was 39. Oscar 31 when they fought.

Hopkins had the advantages on height, weight, and reach. Also ring experience.

Oscar had the advantages of speed and age.

Hopkins won by a bodyshot that was not a real body shot. He faked the funk rolling around the floor. I don't know who he was fooling.

So age does matter? Except when it's De La Hoya who is the older guy. Then it doesn't. Good to know.

He "faked the funk"? Have to say I never heard that one before.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Apr 2021, 10:26 So age does matter? Except when it's De La Hoya who is the older guy. Then it doesn't. Good to know.

He "faked the funk"? Have to say I never heard that one before.

Yes, Oscar faked the funk on that fight. He won his Oscar by rolling around the ring like an idiot. I don't know who he was fooling. It was not a legit body blow.

So you are accusing him of quitting?
That's about the worst criticism that you make of a fighter. That would really have to hurt a fighter's overall rating, wouldn't it?

Maybe Oscarito ate something he didn't like before the Hopkins fight?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Apr 2021, 15:02 So you are accusing him of quitting?
That's about the worst criticism that you make of a fighter. That would really have to hurt a fighter's overall rating, wouldn't it?

I think that Oscar did that to get out of the fight. It hurts his rating somewhat just like Sonny Liston, Roberto Duran and Mike Tyson.

He only had three more rounds to go. Howe does that work, he knew he would nailed with a body shot and then pretended that he was hurt? Funny that nobody else ever accused him of this.

As for hurting his all time rating, how many spots does that cost a guy? At least 10 I would assume?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑08 Apr 2021, 13:22 He only had three more rounds to go. Howe does that work, he knew he would nailed with a body shot and then pretended that he was hurt? Funny that nobody else ever accused him of this.

As for hurting his all time rating, how many spots does that cost a guy? At least 10 I would assume?

No. It depends of the history of the fighter. Nobody cares of Oscar's acting job. He was never that great to the boxing writers to begin with.

And as we continue with the great Cuban fighter via Camaguey and now Miami, FL, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, I saw on YouTube 2 of his fights available.

The first one was with middleweight contender Gene "Ace" Armstrong who was with a record of 19-3-1 with only 1 knockout. He surely suggests in his record that he cannot put a fly to sleep. His biggest win was a 10-round decision against top rated American middleweight contender Henry Hank.

Armstrong, an American boxer, fought the great Dick Tiger of Nigeria, losing all 3 fights. The last one by knockout. For the Rodriguez bout, Ace had not fought in 16 months.

It was an easy workout for El Feo. His class against Armstrong was above from the get go. He dropped Armstrong in the 4th round and coasted until the 8th to inflict more damage. It was over in the 8th round by TKO. Rodriguez was too fast and far too skilled. Ace was totally outclassed. It was also Ace's last fight.

The other fight available of El Feo on YouTube is his shutout win against highly ranked middleweight and welterweight American contender Joey Giambra.

Giambra, a 14-year fight veteran started his career in 1949. By the early 1960s was still good but, a lot of wear and tear were on him. He had wins over Rodriguez stablemate and country man, knockout Cuban artist middleweight contender Florentino Fernandez (WKO7), American contenders Gil Turner (W10), Chico Vejar (WKO7), Rocky Castellani (W10) and a split of 10-round decision verdicts with hall of famer and future champion Joey Giardello of Philadelphia.

Giambra was a ring veteran of 75 fights with a decent record of 65-8-2 with 31KOs.

Rodriguez was 49-2, with 21KOs.

Rodriguez gave Giambra a boxing lesson. It was one of his greatest performances seen of him on film. Giambra was a tall guy, about 6'0" and could not do anything with the slick Cuban with the fast jab and cat reflexes and movement. He jabbed Giambra's face and then went inside and outpunched Giambra with fast combinations, moving his head on the exchanges. It was a thing of beauty. He won by a shutout in 10 rounds. I don't think that Giambra won a round.

Rodriguez was again ready as the #1 contender for the Word Welterweight Crown held by his nemesis the great Emile Griffith of US Virgin Islands by early 1963.

Giambra fought one more time. Lost his last fight and retired after a 14-year career ended in 1963.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Apr 2021, 18:24

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑08 Apr 2021, 13:22 He only had three more rounds to go. Howe does that work, he knew he would nailed with a body shot and then pretended that he was hurt? Funny that nobody else ever accused him of this.

As for hurting his all time rating, how many spots does that cost a guy? At least 10 I would assume?

No. It depends of the history of the fighter. Nobody cares of Oscar's acting job. He was never that great to the boxing writers to begin with.

Odd that no one else thinks he quit. Very odd.

But it hurts everybody's rating if they quit right? How much is my question. I assume that you judge everyone fairly and penalize each person the same amount, right?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Apr 2021, 15:43

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Apr 2021, 18:24

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑08 Apr 2021, 13:22 He only had three more rounds to go. Howe does that work, he knew he would nailed with a body shot and then pretended that he was hurt? Funny that nobody else ever accused him of this.

As for hurting his all time rating, how many spots does that cost a guy? At least 10 I would assume?

No. It depends of the history of the fighter. Nobody cares of Oscar's acting job. He was never that great to the boxing writers to begin with.

Odd that no one else thinks he quit. Very odd.

But it hurts everybody's rating if they quit right? How much is my question. I assume that you judge everyone fairly and penalize each person the same amount, right?

Somewhat yes. It won't hurt the whole career. You gotta see the whole career as a whole.

Well of course we have to look at guy's entire career and balance it against the time he quit.

But it had to hurt each guy the same amount right?
If fighter other wise would be #1 he should go down about as many spots as another guy who otherwise would be #20 right?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑11 Apr 2021, 14:53 Well of course we have to look at guy's entire career and balance it against the time he quit.

But it had to hurt each guy the same amount right?
If fighter other wise would be #1 he should go down about as many spots as another guy who otherwise would be #20 right?

Not necessarily. It depends on each fighter. Some get very low. And some not.

i.e. if you like the guy, if he quit , it doesn't lower where you rank very much.
On the other hand, if you don't like the guy, it will be a big factor and you lower where you rate him quite a bit.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑11 Apr 2021, 21:18 i.e. if you like the guy, if he quit , it doesn't lower where you rank very much.
On the other hand, if you don't like the guy, it will be a big factor and you lower where you rate him quite a bit.

Liking a guy or not does have nothing to do with the rankings. I don't like many fighters, for example, I have never liked Wilfred Benitez for some reason. But that does not take the fact that he was a top 100 all-time pound per pound great fighter. I give him kudos of what he did in the ring. Even if I did not liked him I recognized real.

Let me know when we get to Esteban DeJesus.

Seamus wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 19:14 Let me know when we get to Esteban DeJesus.

That would be in the Esteban De Jesus thread, Seamus.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 19:11

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑11 Apr 2021, 21:18 i.e. if you like the guy, if he quit , it doesn't lower where you rank very much.
On the other hand, if you don't like the guy, it will be a big factor and you lower where you rate him quite a bit.

Liking a guy or not does have nothing to do with the rankings. I don't like many fighters, for example, I have never liked Wilfred Benitez for some reason. But that does not take the fact that he was a top 100 all-time pound per pound great fighter. I give him kudos of what he did in the ring. Even if I did not liked him I recognized real.

I'm sure you will screw Benitez over.

Seamus wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 19:14 Let me know when we get to Esteban DeJesus.

We should be getting to Ray Lampkin pretty soon.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Apr 2021, 23:51

elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 19:11

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑11 Apr 2021, 21:18 i.e. if you like the guy, if he quit , it doesn't lower where you rank very much.
On the other hand, if you don't like the guy, it will be a big factor and you lower where you rate him quite a bit.

Liking a guy or not does have nothing to do with the rankings. I don't like many fighters, for example, I have never liked Wilfred Benitez for some reason. But that does not take the fact that he was a top 100 all-time pound per pound great fighter. I give him kudos of what he did in the ring. Even if I did not liked him I recognized real.

I'm sure you will screw Benitez over.

How is that?

If you really don't like him, you won't rank him as high as you should. Like you do with Leonard and De La Hoya. There is almost always an excuse for their opponents that they beat. In similar situations you give them no slack whatsoever.

If you do like the guy, then you rank him too high. Like you do with Duran. Almost always an excuse for Robert "Always a light weight Duran".

We have been over this a million times. you aren't objective. At all.
Don't know how much more clear I can make this.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Apr 2021, 10:50 If you really don't like him, you won't rank him as high as you should. Like you do with Leonard and De La Hoya. There is almost always an excuse for their opponents that they beat. In similar situations you give them no slack whatsoever.

If you do like the guy, then you rank him too high. Like you do with Duran. Almost always an excuse for Robert "Always a light weight Duran".

We have been over this a million times. you aren't objective. At all.
Don't know how much more clear I can make this.

I call it like I see them. Nuff respect, Ambling Alp!

You call them the way that favors the guys that you like, and against those that you don't.
You routinely change the criteria to favor your favorites. Specific examples where you do this has been pointed out by people like a million times over the years.